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U.S. military refuses to cooperate with Japanese police – will not hand over teens accused of attempted murder

The Asahi Shimbun reports that U.S. military authorities are refusing to hand over the teens whose alleged mischief nearly killed a woman:

According to police, the four, aged between 15 and 18, stretched a rope across a road, knocking a 23-year-old company employee from her motorcycle around 11:30 p.m. on Aug. 13. The woman suffered a fractured skull.

Japanese police are treating the case as attempted murder.

Police obtained an arrest warrant for the teens, whose parents serve at Yokota Air Base, on Nov. 24, but the U.S. military has refused to comply, the sources said.

Do you think the U.S. military should hand the teens over to Japanese police?

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107 comments - What do you think? Posted by James - December 4, 2009 at 8:08 am

Categories: Foreigners in Japan Tags:

kevin

Does anyone know what process minors are subjected to in the Japanese Legal system?
I wouldn’t think that they would be thrown in Jail with adults. Plus these kids (most likely) do not speak Japanese, this would be a hugely confusing process if brought to Japanese Jail. It would probably be better for Japanese police to present evidence to Air Force OSI, and have them interrogate the kids before submitting an arrest warrant that doesn’t hold up on base. But doing this, might be in the teenager’s favor.
I’d say hand them over if they were, without a doubt the teenagers involved, but if there isn’t sufficient tangible evidence, waiting is the best case.
The question is, how clear was the video of the kids, also what other evidence is there? Eye-witnesses etc. Does anyone have any additional information on the case? Also, what is required for attaining an arrest warrant in Japan?

steve

Indeed. Without knowing the conditions that these children (though the 18 year old is arguably not a child) will be kept in, I find it hard to support handing them over.

Is anyone familiar with the conditions for juvenile detention.

LB

Juvenile detention in Japan seems to be largely similar to juvenile detention in any other developed nation. Locked facility, semi-private rooms, school classes and/or vocational training provided. A cakewalk compared to real prison. They might not be able to get cheeseburgers or pizza, but boo-hoo. We aren’t talking about throwing these kids into bamboo cages with live rats.

Even if we were, I would have zero sympathy if they are indeed guilty of the charges.

@kevin – most of your questions were answered in previous posting on this case. There were eyewitnesses at the scene. The kids were still there when the cops showed up, denied involvement and gave false names. Someone else, who hopefully will not grace us with his presence, supposedly works at Yokota and said there is a curfew and if the kids were out after that they would have been stoped at the gate and held until their parents came and picked them up. If true, it is likely to be a leetle hard for the kids to say “I wasn’t there”.

Whether the arrest warrant would “hold up on the base” is not the issue – if there is an arrest warrant, that means there is enough evidence for a Japanese court to issue one under Japanese law. Which is all that matters here.

steve

We aren’t talking about throwing these kids into bamboo cages with live rats. Even if we were, I would have zero sympathy if they are indeed guilty of the charges.

How would you know they are guilty if they haven’t been tried yet?

From what precious little we’ve heard so far, it sureseems like they are guilty. But seeming guilty and being proven guilty are different things – just ask those lacrosse players at Duke.

You may be comfortable throwing children suspected of a major crime into bamboo cages with live rats. I am not and am glad that this is not the case in Japan.
kevin

Not sure that that warrant would hold up unless all the evidence was presented, does anyone know the laws regarding this? For some reason I’m thinking that if Japanese police arrested these kids off base, within acouple hours they would get a visit from a Consular from the American Embassy, who would just call up the ministry of justice and pull those kids out until further evidence is presented.
I read those posts, but, to me its all hearsay until proven.
Karisu

@steve

Hey steve, see that “if” word in that quoted text you have there from LB? It completely invalidates your last comment.

David

If the arrest warrant holds up by Japanese law it should “hold up on base”. They are suspected of committing a crime in Japan and should not get special treatment.

PewPew

WOW. I am shocked.

Where’s Obama when you need him? I wonder if the Japanese government will appeal to Obama to look at this case. Either that, or the Japanese could use this and show it to the Afghans or Iraqis to show how bad it can get.

I suppose they’re arguing that there isn’t enough evidence except for blurry images of some foreign kids messing around. Probably not clear enough to ID them.
pixel_bomber

Not much info in this article, anyone know why the military refused to comply? Did they say they will not be cooperating or have they not yet responded? Honestly why even publish an article this vague in a newspaper.

Ajapa

Previous article written in Japanese mentioned that the suspects are subject to SOFA. Some Japanense media initially reported the opposite though. The suspects denied their involvement in this incident when they were questioned by the military police at Yokota base. The military police seems to have helped Japanese police for identifying these suspects. No more detail I found.

sublight

The US-Japan SOFA agreement also covers spouses and under-21 children of military personnel.

Ajapa

According to an article from “Stars and Stripes”:

“4 U.S. teens may be investigated over road accident near Yokota”
By Charlie Reed, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Thursday, November 26, 2009
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=66295

The U.S. contends the teens would qualify for the same protections as American troops under criminal investigation by Japanese authorities as defined by the status of forces agreement, Fisher said. Japan argues that dependents are not afforded the same rights, he said.

The article is a bit old and not detailed but it may give a little insight into what’s happening in the base.
Ajapa

Continued…

At the heart of the discrepancy is whether Japanese police could take the teens into custody before officially charging them.

Indeed, SOFA also covers dependents and other civilians related to the U.S. military bases. However, the problem in this particular issue at this point is whether they should qualify for the same protections as American servicepersons or not, unlike most of other people of non-Japanese nationality.

Eon

Whether they should or not is irrelevant. The US military will never ever hand over those kids to Japanese authorities. It will not happen. The US military cannot realistically send it’s soldiers with their families to a foreign country and have the families subject to foreign law (Speaking of which, delinquency hardly qualifies as attempted murder). Whether this is ethical or not doesn’t really matter, because if they did hand over the kids to be put in Japanese prison, they would likely have a serious dissent problem with troops stationed in Japan, if not elsewhere too.
That is not to say that nothing should be done, and this kind of thing needs to be taken very seriously on the part of the military, as this is the exact kind of crap that makes a large portion of the world angry at the States.

tokyojesusfist

“Speaking of which, delinquency hardly qualifies as attempted murder”

Except it wasn’t delinquency, it was attempted murder.

Trufax

^
This!

homicide is the unlawful taking of human life with malice aforethought. This is a case of implied malice because what they did is so obviously dangerous that the “blackened heart” element is satisfied. It’s the same thing as throwing cinder blocks off an overpass as cars drive below or driving 140mph in a school zone.
Bob

No, it was deliquency. And whether the kids were there or not, we don’t if they strung the rope across the road.

LB

“And whether the kids were there or not,”
Pretty much a slam dunk they were, local cops interviewed them at the scene.

“we don’t if they strung the rope across the road.”
It sure didn’t string itself across the road. And if the cops have a warrant, that would very strongly suggest they had enough evidence to present to a court to get that warrant. Granted, though, they are innocent under the law until proven guilty.
tokyojesusfist

So first you say it was “delinquency,” but then you admit that a rope was strung across the road. That’s clearly attempted murder.

LB

Bullshit. If someone is in a foreign country, they are subject to that country’s laws. Serviceman, service family, civilian, anyone. Extraterritoriality went out with the Opium War. If a US servicemember commits a crime off-base, Japanese laws and/or the UCMJ apply. If a civilian dependent commits a crime off-base, Japanese laws apply as civilians don’t fall under the UCMJ if they are off-base. This was made loud and clear to all of us when I was in the Marines. If those who were married and/or had kids did not want them subjected to local laws, it was made clear two options were available: keep them on base every moment of every day, or leave them at home in the States.

kevin

LB is right, we had to be briefed on all this over and over when I went to the Air Force Academy.

InJM

If these kids get punished by the military or whoever is in charge of doing that kind of stuff, then maybe they don’t have to go to the Japanese police. As long as they get punished with a punishment suiting the crime. This may feel like an empty victory to Japanse authorities if it goes to US jurisdiction and the kids are found guilty though.

I don’t think Attempted Murder fits though. Unless whatever prosecuting body can prove these kids went out and thought “Hey, let’s go kill some Japanese people by tying this rope across a road,” they probably didn’t mean to hurt anyone. Cause damage? Yes but not hurt someone. They did end up hurting someone and that crime also needs to be addressed.

PewPew

Oh geez puhleez.

The kids were off the base, in public Japanese space. They should be subjected to all the laws that you or I would be subjected to, if we were to misbehave in the same manner, anywhere in Japan, as foreign citizens. It’s inconceivable that the military won’t hand the kids over from the safe haven within the base – unless, of course, they honestly believe these kids didn’t do it.
Surely our US military don’t want more protests outside the base – or perhaps, at this point, they just don’t care? Still very fascinating.
LB

The military cannot punish them, as the UCMJ does not apply to civilians (correction of unclear comment of mine above). If a civilian commits a crime off-base, the local authorities handle the entire incident (obviously). If a civilian commits a crime on-base, the military police and investigative services for that base will work together with the off-base local police to gather evidence, all of which will be turned over to the local prosecutor and the individual will be tried in the local civilian court.

Note: this was the procedure at US bases when I was in the Marines years ago. I believe it still applies, but I do not know or remember exactly how it works when the civilian dependent commits a crime on a US base overseas. They cannot be tried under military law, but I do not know if they are handed over to the local police where the base is located or if they are returned to the last US base their sponsor was at to be tried there. I am sure that the rules exist, but I can’t find an easy answer through Google.

kevin

but specifically, does it matter that these kids are minors and dependants of their parents who are military personnel?

LB

Does it matter that they are minors? Yes, as that means they will be tried as juveniles under Japanese law, not as adults (which kids of similar age probably would be tried as if they did this in the States).

Does it matter that they are dependents? I hope not. It shouldn’t matter at all – but as with all things when politics gets involved, as it may in a case like this… yes, it probably does matter.

Rune

Ignorance before the law is no excuse, neither in the Japanese justice system or the US. They might not have thought the ‘prank’ through to it’s logical conclusion, ie that they could very well kill somebody doing what they did, but that is still no legal excuse. This is why an attempted murder charge is added to many an arson charge if the fire was in danger of killing someone, irregardless of the arsonists awareness of the persons presence or intention with the fire. In this case as opposed to the arson example, the intent to harm was clear and the attempted murder charge is only right and proper, once again irregardless of whether the kids were aware they could have killed somebosy or not.

It’s pretty pathetic that the US won’t extradite the kids to the Japanese authorities. It’s not unheard of that foreign nationals after sentencing is then extradited to their home countries for the serving of the sentence and sometimes even the trial and sentencing is done in the home country. But what the US is doing here is blatant legal obstruction. Had it been the other way ’round, I can guarantee you all several hours of ranting against Japan on TV and Radio by the likes of O’Reilly and Limbaugh and we’d have the commenters defending the US decision here up in arms as well spewing hate-speech, you mark my words.

yoga boy

That says it right there, US military and their families are untouchables and can get away with whatever they want just so long as they can get back to their base without getting caught.

Get them the f*** out of Japan please.

Level3

Someone needs to go back and read news stories about multiple US servicemen getting sent to jail.

Hardly untouchable.
But facts don’t stop extremists and their feelings.

James Watt

Not untouchable, but they should still get the f*** out of Japan.

NO offense meant whatsoever to Americans. But the occupation is over. Get out.

http://1000thingsaboutjapan.blogspot.com/ Orchid64

Japan benefits immensely from the U.S. military presence or the bases wouldn’t be there. For one, it’s a hell of a lot cheaper for the U.S. to offer this protection than for Japan to offer it itself. This is almost certainly the primary reason why the bases are still here. The government doesn’t talk about it because they don’t want to damage the support of right wing people or anger the people who are troubled by the bases.

The bases also allow Japan to have the full weight of America’s political and military gravitas behind them when dealing with potentially aggressive powers like North Korea. Japan has nothing when it comes to international relations besides money and the U.S. standing behind it as a bodyguard.

Japan doesn’t want America gone. Period. If they did, it’d be gone. Adopting an overly simplistic view which describes the bases as an occupation is ignorant and proves nothing other than the writers desire to skew the discussion in a particular direction rather than to consider it from a more rational viewpoint.
Karisu

Then tell the Japanese government to have them leave. They aren’t staying there without the Japanese government willingly and wanting them to be there.
LB

“The bases also allow Japan to have the full weight of America’s political and military gravitas behind them when dealing with potentially aggressive powers like North Korea.”

Yeah, I noticed that gravitas when the US told Japan to “look at the big picture” and stop letting the issue of kidnapped and murdered Japanese get in the way of what was near and dear to the US, which was the nuclear issue. Not that the nuclear issue is not a big deal to the Japanese as well, but it became pretty clear pretty quickly that US pledges of “we will back Japan on the issue as best we can” really meant “we will back Japan as long as doing so coincides with US interests”.

Not that I would expect the US, or Japan, or any other country for that matter to do anything different. A country should act in what it perceives is its best interests, but US interests very often do not coincide with Japanese interests, and having America’s weight at its back is not a good thing when the US is pushing Japan into something it would do better to stay the hell out of. In case you have not noticed (and I doubt you have), Japan’s diplomatic and political influence has often been greatest when they have been able to distance themselves from the US.

And as for US military protection being “cheaper” – how do you figure that? Aside from service member’s salaries and the actual military equipment, the two cheapest parts of the equation, Japan foots 100% of the bill for the US bases.
Fat Tony

“And as for US military protection being “cheaper” – how do you figure that?”

Well, that is fairly easy. The Japanese money that covers the bases constitutes about 2 billion dollars. Japan’s defense budget is some $40b. That’s 5 percent of a defense budget that is about 1 percent of GNP. For that 0.5 percent of defence spending, in other words, Japan guarantees U.S. protection rather than spending 2-3 percent of GDP on its military (about the normal rate) to offset China’s military expansion.

Still. The argument here is about the presence of the Marines on Okinawa, and yes the “Japanese government” –although that’s a rather monolithic term–wants them there. However, just becasue the GOJ is in cahoots with the USG, doesn’t make it any easier on the people who this alliance affects.

And maybe when U.S. secretaries of state and defense tell their “allies” that they cannot choose the arrangement of troops on their OWN SOVEREIGN TERRITORY, it does start to look a bit like an occupation:

“Without the Futenma realignment, the Futenma facility, there will be no relocation to Guam. And without relocation to Guam, there will be no consolidation of forces and the return of land in Okinawa. ”

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4501
Fat Tony

Sorry, I meant “For that 0.05 percent of GNP, in other words, Japan guarantees U.S. protection rather than spending 2-3 percent of GNP on its military (about the normal rate) to offset China’s military expansion.

TJ

Send their butts to Japanese jail…..even for a few days that will scare their dumba$$es straight.

I was stationed there for almost 10 years and I got really tired of the stupidity of people. Every time some idiot does something stupid, everyone else has to suffer. Time to make an example of these kids. Let the Japanese prosecute them.

@yoga boy …apparently you haven’t lived there very long or you would know that is almost never the case especially if it is something like murder or trying to sneak drugs in the country. And if you are gonna go as far as saying get them the f*** out of Japan then why not just kick all foreigners out of Japan because 1 guy was drunk and disorderly in a bar. The US military are not the only problem. Stereotyping people is always wrong no matter what or who it is.

PewPew

Ah yes, the never-ending argument of making one person fall for an entire nation.
James Watt

For me, it’s not about the kids or the sometimes dumb service members. It’s about the occupation of a foreign nation by the USA.

Level3

Tough call.

If we can be SURE it was these kids, I say throw ‘em in Japanese jeuvy, they can hang with wannabe yakuza.

But then, if the only evidence is blurry video of “gaijin”, that’s not much proof, especially considering Japanese tend to “see” gaijin if it’s a crime and the face is not visible (a la the Sasebo shotgun murders at that health club, the J dude wore a motorcycle helmet, so initial reports were it was “A GAIJIN!”) And doubly so in Okinawa.

Bringing up the charge of attempted murder was not a good step.
If my kid claims innocence and is facing a charge of crimnal mischief or assault, that’s much more understandable than J police demanding I hand over my kid for attempted murder (even if it is techincally, possibly true)
It makes me start to think they’ve already been convicted in the minds of the authorities (but that’s how the 98% “guilty” J “justice” system works anyway), and won’t get a fair hearing, again especially with the attitude in Okinawa.

Surely the J cops are hopting to play the kids off each other and get at least one “confession” from a minor even if they’re innocent.

Or considering the J cops tendency to charge some murderers merely with “abandonment of a (gaijin) corpse”
Why not charge the kids with “abandonment of a rope”?

But again, if they’re guilty, they need to be severely punished.

KaraKoramParka

Level3,

What’s a “J cop”?

Or considering the J cops tendency to charge some murderers merely with “abandonment of a (gaijin) corpse” Why not charge the kids with “abandonment of a rope”?

Are you talking about the B girl case? That J suspect was caught you know. Apparently he didn’t have a “safe haven” to hide himself.

AnotsuSagami

I’m with Level3 on this. Japan is notorious for their rediculously high conviction rate. As high as 98.6% by some accounts. in others. These kids will NOT get a fair trail in Japanese court and everyone knows it. That’s why the base wants to be certain it’s them before they let the Japanese authorities have them. Once they get in front of a judge, conviction is all but guaranteed, and if they were truly innocent the truth will not come out. Several recent cases in the news serve to illustrate this.

Why just toss these kids to the wolves if you’re not sure they did it? One thing you can be sure of, the wolves will tear them apart, innocent or not.

http://www.japanprobe.com James

An article to consider:

Conviction rates in Japan exceed 99 percent. Because Japanese judges can be penalized by a personnel office if they rule in ways the office dislikes, perhaps they face biased incentives to convict. Using data on the careers and opinions of 321 Japanese judges, we find that judges who acquit do have worse careers following the acquittal. On closer examination, though, we find that the punished judges are not those who acquit on the ground that the prosecutors charged the wrong person. Rather, they acquit for reasons of statutory or constitutional interpretation, often in politically charged cases. Thus, the apparent punishment seems unrelated to any pro-conviction bias at the judicial administrative offices. We suggest an alternative explanation: the high conviction rates reflect case selection and low prosecutorial budgets; understaffed prosecutors present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/724687

Cases in the past of probable murderers being convicted of “abandonment of corpse” instead of muder tend to support the idea that prosecutors are afraid to take cases to trial that could result in a non-guilty verdict.

LB

Agreed. But then, convict a guy for abandonment of a corpse with rock-solid evidence but not for murder when there is little hard evidence and no confession = “The Japanese Justice system is hopelessly lax/biased/etc.”

But by virtue of going with the lesser charge the prosecutor gets a good conviction in the particular case and an overall conviction rate in the high 90s = “The Japanese Justice system is hopelessly rigged/biased/etc.”

Can’t win either way…
pixel_bomber

It does sound plausible, it would be hard to account for the oddly high conviction rate otherwise. Most likely they will only charge people if they are fairly certain they will be found guilty. If that is the case then they must have some pretty strong evidence to be going with the attempted murder charge. I don’t really know Japanese law, does attempted murder include anything about intent? To me the term murder seems to imply that the motive was to kill someone and not some sort of prank as had been hypothesized. If the Japanese laws have stipulations such as this and they are pursuing this charge then the evidence and witnesses must be pretty solid.

Also I was just wondering is there any chance that they might face a US trial based on charged filed by military police (if they were to do that)? Wouldn’t that fall under the terms of SOFA?

kevin

lol more like 99.7 percent! at least they would get a jury because its a murder trial. Still not comfortable with the judge diliberating with the jury in Japan.

kevin

i mean attempted murder
KaraKoramParka

kevin,

lol more like 99.7 percent! at least they would get a jury because its a murder trial.”

A jury trial? Not in this case.

http://www.saibanin.courts.go.jp/introduction/index.html
殺人murder
強盗致死傷robbery causing death or injury
傷害致死bodily injury resulting in death
危険運転致死dangerous driving causing death or injury
現住建造物等放火arson of inhabited buildings
身の代金目的誘拐kidnapping for ransom
保護責任者遺棄致死negligence as guardians resulting in death

Still not comfortable with the judge diliberating with the jury in Japan.

One thing is certain. The prosecutors will keep them in one piece.

Shoe thrower ‘beaten in custody’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7785338.stm

kevin

thanks for the link!
amazingly odd how they lay out the situation, u’d think attempted murder would be in that bracket since it is was very close to 人にけがをさせ，死亡させてしまった場合.

So if it doesn’t warrant a jury, does that mean that if put into custody, the kids who committed this crime have a chance to be pardoned if they write a letter do the woman apologizing and (very unlikely) she accepts? I know they do that in a lot of cases.

Mr. USA

Send those dumbass kids home.

PewPew

We can’t let them off the hook like that so easily, can we? As responsible Americans, we can’t just let them go home, without even an apology? These kids and their families should at least have to do some local community service or something, before they’re allowed to come home to the US.

Mr. USA

I doubt the US military will allow them to face any sort of justice. I think they’re better off being sent home because they make all Americans look bad.

But then they’ll just end up trying to kill Americans at home.

anything goes

Anything goes unless people die, eh?

It would attract more than criticism if this happened back in your country.
Why is it Ok in our country? Just arrest them for justice!

AnotsuSagami

“Just arrest them for justice!”

I’m going to assume you missed the block of comments of people concerned that the prosecution here is not at all interested in justice and will just convict them as SOP.

Anything goes again

I am not following any of threads.

For the sake of victim, they must be brought out for trial here in Japan. Were teens f around (with possibly military personnels) in the base or IN THE LAND OF JAPAN?

haildamage

unfortunately, the japanese justice system is a complete farce and is not to be confused with that of a civilized country. due process and a fair trial are not to be expected for anyone in japan. therefore, if there is any doubt about guilt, i would not hand over my dog to the japanese system…

however, i do hope justice is served within in the military system, but the japanese justice system is f ed up!

Rune

excuse me, but the US justice system is just as much a farce, unless you are white middle class.

haildamage

the silliness or your statement boggles the mind!

you obviously understand very little about the japanese or the US justice systems to make such an ignorant and ridiculous comment. i suggest you read up on the japanese justice system if you care to have an intelligent discussion on the issue!

ponta

Can you back up your claim that the Japanese justice system is a complete farce?

Anyway any foreigners who think Japanese justice system is a completely farce should stay away from Japan.
For them Japanese is a lawless jungle, who should stay there?
For Japanese they are outlaws who disregard Japanese justice system.

PewPew

Ah yeah haildamage,

that’s why OJ Simpson walked away.

Yeah!

Jonsan

If you lived on-base at Yokota, you would know that the concern is with the charges — attempted murder is not an appropriate charge given the circumstances.

My understanding is that the incident occurred on a very little-trafficked road at 11:30 PM. The kids are demonstrably retarded, but don’t have a reputation for doing anything like this. The other kids on base say that they were setting up an obstacle course so they could do “Parkour” with their friends.”

Then the scooter comes along.

Gross negligence, reckless endangerment, sure. Not attempted murder. There was no malice in their actions.

ponta

”The kids are demonstrably retarded, but don’t have a reputation for doing anything like this”

” Comment by Cheech c
2009-11-27 01:59:15
I just heard of this right now, by a friend, who told me that this girl I went to school with was the one being questioned for this,
and all I can say is, she is definitely a trouble maker, and doesn’t surprise mr at all that she would be involved.”

http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/11/24/u-s-military-brats-suspected-in-case-of-biker-nearly-killed-by-a-rope/#

I don’t know whether this imformation or your information is true, though.
Rune

And the story the kids tell of their motivation for stringing out the rope must be true, they could not possibly lie about such a thing, that would be unheard of. Especially seeing that they lied about their names and identity on the night of the incident, because as we all know, military brats are only allowed to fib or lie once a year, so their quota has been spent.
fg

Oh, “Parkour” really? They can’t do that inside the base?
I guess the Japanese will have to throw in “omoiyari yosan” to build a Parkour course for base kids.
fg

Are you sure it wasn’t the limbo dance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggIKV-jKz_U
LB

“attempted murder is not an appropriate charge given the circumstances.”

Lessee…
Rope strung across road – check.
At neck height – check.
At night – check.
Catch motorcyclist, break her neck and damn near kill her – check.

Sure sounds like attempted murder to me.

“the incident occurred on a very little-trafficked road at 11:30 PM”
Oh, well that makes all the difference, now doesn’t it? “Little-trafficked” – so then it would be the motorcyclists fault for driving down an empty road in the middle of the night? And didn’t you mention something before about there being a curfew at Yokota for kids?

“The kids are demonstrably retarded, but don’t have a reputation for doing anything like this.”
Well, I would hope the Air Force does not let dependents with a reputation for trying to kill people accompany their sponsors overseas. Anyway, they’re kids – of course they probably don’t have a reputation for attempted murder. But it sounds like they’re off to a good start trying to build one for themselves.

“The other kids on base say that they were setting up an obstacle course so they could do “Parkour” with their friends.”

At 11:30 at night? What about that curfew thing? Do the brats at Yokota normally break curfew so they can run around town in the middle of the night playing Parkour? And their parents let them?!? Not to mention a rope across a road would probably have to set the record for the lamest Parkour obstacle in the history of the sport. Just duck under it! You wouldn’t even have to slow down! Do you really think anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size would believe this?

Note to people on Yokota – if you do believe this excuse, you might want to rethink any ideas you have about the Army or Marines being the “dumb branch”. I’m just sayin”…

Anyway, a rope across a road would be a completely useless Parkour obstacle unless, that is, the kids figured anyone running along the road wouldn’t see the rope in the dark until it was too late, and were hoping to clothesline their friends. But that would mean they knew what they were doing, could foresee the consequences of stringing a rope across a road in the dark, and had demonstrable intent to cause injury or harm. Oops…

“There was no malice in their actions.”

Somehow I am having a leetle trouble believing that. Perhaps they didn’t set out to catch a biker. Perhaps they didn’t set out to kill or almost kill someone. But according to you, they have admitted they set up an obstacle, on a road, at night. And the kind of obstacle that is completely useless for the purpose they set claim they made it for unless the person running the course can’t see it until they are right on top of it. Which means they hit the obstacle. Sounds like malice aforethought to me.

pixel_bomber

“Somehow I am having a leetle trouble believing that. Perhaps they didn’t set out to catch a biker. Perhaps they didn’t set out to kill or almost kill someone.”

So perhaps you are saying there is reasonable doubt that they decided to murder a biker that night?

Rune

As I have mentioned before, PB, INTENT have nothing at all to do with it. Ignorance is no excuse before the law.

Let me return to my previous example of arson. Most arsonists do not intend to kill anybody. They either have a pathological fascination of fire or they have another objective, commonly being insurance fraud. So, say, someone has a business that’s going badly and cooks up a plan to cash in on the insurance money and use that to start over. They do not intend to do bodily harm to anybody and lights the fire at a time when they believe nobody else will be hurt. Things do not turn out as they expect and someone get’s smoke poisoning. That is an attempted murder charge on top of arson and fraud. It matters not that the arsonist didn’t want to or believe he hurt anybody. INTENT means jack in that situation, just like with the joker kids in question. You might not like it, but this is how legal systems work in our world, the US as well. So even under US law they would be culpable to this charge and it’s only the fact that they perpetrated the alledged crime on foreign soil that they are being protected. Another example of misguided imperialist American Exellence thought in action.
pixel_bomber

I’m not a lawyer and maybe google is wrong but:

“Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).”

I’ve seen drunk drivers charged with manslaughter before for example. Maybe there is evidence to support murder though. Maybe a witness or surveillance camera overheard them say “lets kill someone”. I really have no idea, just based on my knowledge the charge of attempted murder seems odd. But then again I’m an idiot so I probably don’t know what I’m talking about.
LB

@pixel – yes, there is of course doubt that the decided to kill someone. And you have the difference between murder and manslaughter right – if you intend to kill someone, it is murder. If you kill someone by accident it is manslaughter. However, if you will note in either case the result is someone is dead. This is not the case here, and I have never heard (in Japan or the US, the two contries with whose legal workings I am most familiar) of “attempted manslaughter”, only “attempted murder”. The closest that I would think there would be to “attempted manslaughter” would be “reckless endangerment”.

Of the two (attempted murder and reckless endangerment), attempted murder is the more serious. The difference from my understanding is this:

One is doing something basically stupid that puts someone’s life in danger, but they have no intent to do so and the incident that put someone’s life in danger was relatively hard to foresee or else was of such a nature that the endangerment was a collateral result. Example: someone is running from the cops in a car, causing the police to chase them at high speeds. They might be charged with reckless endangerment of the pursuing officer, as by the act of running away they caused the officer to give chase at high speed, which could have led to an accident and the injury or death of the officer. However, the individual running away was not trying to harm the officer, the officer was not in an accident and not hurt, and the officer was the one in control of his car.

Now, while running from one cruiser the individual comes upon another cruiser, with an officer in it, pulled across the road to block his escape. He hits that cruiser trying to get around it and continue his flight. Now we are in “attempted murder” territory, as hitting the cruiser could reasonably be seen as deliberate and dangerous to the officer inside it.

The kids in this case allegedly claim they were trying to create an obstacle across a road. Any reasonable person could foresee the results if a car or bike came down that road and hit the obstacle. Therefore reckless endangerment is, in my opinion, not appropriate.
Ajapa

…I’m an idiot…

Nu, you are a clever idiot. I am an idiotic idiot.
Ajapa

I am a bit confused by this situation. Just my personal opinion though… Asking handing over U.S. citizens for the suspect of a less evident and more serious crime makes it easier to refuse the request for U.S. military. While it is said that police can rearrest suspects on the suspicion of an other and more serious crime. Are there any deep antagonism between local Japanese authority and Yokota base?
Ajapa

“Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought),…

I’m not a lawyer nor a decent English speaker so it is not very clear to me what the word “intent” and “unlawful” exactly mean here. Probably, this (especially regarding “intent”) could make a difference of opinion and views?
PewPew

“Are there any deep antagonism between local Japanese authority and Yokota base?”

Ajapa,

you need to stop being a WUM. You know very well what it feels like to have a hemorrhoid stuck up your arse to stick around for a long time.
Ajapa

WHAT kind of EDUCATION YOU’ve been getting? I am expressing sincere concern about your “opinion” on thing like this that you said:

You know very well what it feels like to have a hemorrhoid stuck up your arse to stick around for a long time.

So PewPew, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but you scare me.

PewPew

“The other kids on base say that they were setting up an obstacle course so they could do “Parkour” with their friends.””

That’s the story they came up with? Lovely.

Debiru

American criminals will always find shelter under their military bases.

Mike

Obvious troll is obvious.

civilian

thank you Captain Obvious…
Ajapa

Statement is trivial I think.

Carlos

That was a totally beyond stupid and childish statement.

Average Joe

Just hand those kids over, for pete’s sake! they’re just tarnishing America’s already tarnished reputation…here comes more hate towards America…

Carlos

More hate if you’re ignorant and look and want to generalize a whole population and in that case, who cares. People that are rational thinking can distinguish good from bad whether you’re American, Japanese or whatever.
These guys should be prosecuted, I agree, especially in the land where the crime was committed, but having said that, I also understand why the military would NOT hand them over. Its a double-edged sword.

jfkaoo

８月に殺人未遂事件　逮捕されない米兵の子
米軍、引き渡し拒否地位協定口実に
http://www.jcp.or.jp/akahata/aik09/2009-12-04/2009120415_01_1.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5TBba9qgQ

Ajapa

『しんぶん赤旗』(Shinbun Akahata) is a newspaper published by Japanese Communist Party. According to the article jfkaoo provided above:

武蔵村山市は同日、横田基地に説明を求めました。同基地のクリストファー・ワット広報部長の答えはこうでした。「（日本側から）正式に身柄引き渡しの要請を受けておらず、逮捕状も提示されていない。要請があれば、日米地位協定の規定内で協力する」

An official of Musashimurayama city asked Yokota base for an explanation. The reply of Christopher Watt, a spokesman of the base, was, “We have not been officially requested (by Japan’s side) to hand over them, nor presented any arrest warrant. If there are any request, we will cooperate as prescribed by the U.S.-Japan SOFA.”

The reply of Yokota base to an inquiry made by a Shinbun Akahata reporter concerning on hand-over was (on 2 Dec.):

「１１月２４日、日本の警察から身柄を引き渡してほしい、との非公式な打診があった。基地側としては日米地位協定の解釈として身柄は渡せない、と回答した。今後も同様なかたちで要請してくれば、同じように対応する」

“On 24 Nov., there was an unofficial request by Japanese police to hand over them. We replied that we could not hand over them, based on [our] interpretation of the U.S.-Japan SOFA. To any request made in the same way, we will continue to respond likewise.”

It mentions on the problem of an unusual attitude of Japanese police regarding treatment of incidents that U.S. military bases are involved and implies involvement of the Japanese government and their political decision as an opinion of a media person who is well-versed in the Japanese police. Not to mention that some group of people showed their indignation and sent a protest message to both Japanese and the U.S. government.

pixel_bomber

So according to this article the military police were following procedure and just waited for the proper documents to be served before turning over the suspects? Seems like a conflicting report with the Asahi shimbun article linked in this topic.

Ajapa

The focus of this article is rahter that the military police claimed that they were following procedure in accordance with their interpretation of the U.S.-Japan SOFA (Status of Force Agreement). The Asahi Shimbun article just mentioned on opinion of the Japanese police’s side. I think this is one of the important points.
Ajapa

pixel_bomber,

As for some background, Japanese Communist Party feels unpleasant of the existence of the U.S. military base in Japan, and many Asahi Shimbun’s editors and writers (regarded as liberal or leftist) are supposed to be so. They are often irritated by the attitude of Japanese and U.S. government and by the existence of the U.S. military base itself. On the current issue, the suspects are just family of military personnel and are suspected for committing a crime in the obviously Japanese territory (meaning outside of the base) and the victim is even not an American military personnel.
pixel_bomber

Ok thanks for clearing that up. It’s not hard to imagine there are poor relations between the military base and Japanese citizens. The whole situation seems like a public relations nightmare.

PewPew

Ajapa,

“Communist” = operative word.

What on earth are you reading? Why would you even try to bring what this paper says into any sort of context, at all? In fact, what interest have you in reading such a paper? Why do you even waste time reading that paper? I can only assume that you are a WUM and that you are, indeed, nuts.

Ajapa

jkfaoo,

“Communist” = operative word.

What on earth are you reading? Why would you even try to bring what this paper says into any sort of context, at all? In fact, what interest have you in reading such a paper? Why do you even waste time reading that paper?

jfkaoo, the one who actually brought this Akahata’s article, please answer to this HYSTERICAL questions if you think it is worth responding. Your article is basically consistent with an article from “Starts and Stripes“, another news source from the operative word, consistent with the article that I mentioned as a military base side’s standpoint before. Thank you.

JapanProbe moderators,

Please don’t delete corresponding comments attacking me even if it is strongly against the discussion policy.

Finally. Dear ultimately silly person with HYSTERIA,

A particular sentence from you must be a very precise reflection of the level of education you’ve gotten ever. I appreciate your serious effort to discuss nothing. I am expressing sincere concern about your “opinion” on thing like this that you said:

I can only assume that you are a WUM and that you are, indeed, nuts.

So PewPew, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but you scare me.

eric

This is terribly embarrassing to me as an American. While I understand the various arguments here (they’re minors, they’re family of military personnel, the Japanese conviction rate more or less assures they’ll be found guilty), I personally think they should be held fully accountable under the laws of the land in which they maliciously and purposefully tried to injure or kill someone. Any person, teen or not, of even meager intelligence knows what happens if you hit a rope at neck level while riding a bicycle, moped or motorcycle: Serious injury. This isn’t delinquency, it’s assault with intent at very least.

I also think the parents should face some sort of reprimand, but I’m sure that’ll be an unpopular opinion…
Twain

Some people’s arguments sound like this:
“Don’t let them take Saddam Hussein. He’s innocent until proven guilty, and they won’t hold a fair trial!”
People, people, stop making stupid excuses. Those posts only make us look bad.
nagoriyuki

Now the four children were arrested by Japanese police.

http://news24.jp/articles/2009/12/05/07149161.html

yoga boy

Good. Imprison them for 30 years each with hard labor.

Jane

What I want to know is how the Japanese government came up with attempted murder. From what I understand, these are kids. This could very well have just been a bad attempt at a prank. Clothslining a bicyclist (to a kid) probably looks like some kind of pratfall joke. I dont say this as an excuse, because it was a stupid thing to do. However, I am curious to know what prompted the charge of “attempted murder” rather then something like “criminal mischief”. I know that the actual charge of “criminal mischief” is defined as a crime against property. What is the equivelant against another human being?

nagoriyuki

How can the Japanese police know that it was just a “prank”, while they couldn’t even get in touch with the children? I don’t know much about laws, but the definition of murder in Japan may differ from your country’s. The children seem to have been aware of that what they had done was “guilty”, in other words they had mens rea, and their acts resulted in the serious injury which risked a woman’s life. They didn’t try to rescue her, did they? I don’t think the teenagers were trying to “kill” someone, but it’s still natural that the police take all the possibilities into consideration. The fact that the military didn’t hand them to the police possibly made the matter worse, I think.

pixel_bomber

We really know little facts about the case. The police could have evidence that proves intent to murder that we have not seen. The delay in handing over the kids could have been due to normal procedure. I doubt they hand over every criminal suspect immediately, I’m sure there is a process they follow. Assuming the kids in custody are guilty I think most of us agree it is a serious crime that should have serious consequences.

ponta

Attempt murder is not unreasonable charge since it is not unreasonable to assume that they know that there is a high probability that their actions would kill someone.

However if it turns out the evidences are not sufficient to convince the judges in the trial, the prosecutor will change the charge to the lighter one.

Considering their being minors and other factors, my guess is that the sentence will be suspended or will be something to rehabilitate the boys and girls. Just my guess, though.
pixel_bomber

Ah I didn’t realize they could change the charges later. I guess it still counts as a conviction even if they change the charges later?

Regardless of what the final charge turns out to be I really hope it does not result in a suspended sentence. I bet if they got caught doing this back home the penalty would be tougher than that.

Ajapa

They didn’t try to rescue her, did they?

At least one Japanese news report mentioned that one of them asked other for help to rescue her. From a Mainichi Shinbun’s report on 25, Nov.:

捜査関係者によると…[略]…。また、４人のうち１人が事故直後、現場を通りかかった車の運転手に「人がロープに引っかかった」と１１９番を依頼していたことも判明したという。

Investigative sources said…. Moreover, it became clear that one of four suspects asked a car driver who happened to pass by the scene to call 119 [an ambulance], saying “Someone was caught by a rope”, immediately after the incident, the source said.

I don’t know the reason why Japanese police asked an arrest warrant for the crime of an attempted murder. Maybe, “Obstruction of Traffic and Causing Death or Injury Thereby” (the Japanese Penal Code Article 124) may be better suited to this case but there might be some subtle problems to arrest them?

nagoriyuki

47news was saying the same thing.
http://www.47news.jp/CN/200911/CN2009112501000118.html
Now I see they may have done something to help her.

But some articles say the kids told false names to the police.
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/affairs/crime/091205/crm0912051142013-n1.htm
This is awful if true.

I also found an article which mentioned the reason for “an attempted murder.”
http://www.asahi.com/national/update/1121/TKY200911200529.html
“現場付近は倉庫が立ち並び、街路灯は道路の片側にしかなく、
夜間は見通しが悪い。同庁は、ロープが見えにくいため、
バイクや自転車が気づかずに引っかかって転倒すれば
死亡するおそれがあることを判断できたはずだとして、
殺人未遂容疑での立件を目指す。”
The police considered that the children could have judge that the stretched rope would cause the risk of death as it was hardly visible in darkness.
Ajapa

The police considered that the children could have judge that the stretched rope would cause the risk of death as it was hardly visible in darkness.

Yes, it might be as terrible as an attempt to threaten others by stretching a cord across at ankle height above the top stair. It must be attempted murder if there exists slight intent to kill someone or some degree of recognition that it can cause a death. But I am still not very sure if “attempted murder” is the most reasonable and adequate choice for arrest since I don’t know other possible choices enough well. Japanese police perhaps could not even hear from those suspects before asking for an arrest warrant because of a barrier?

Ajapa

I think the crime of an attempted murder is not very adequate for this case. However, I think, their suspected attempt is just comparable with an attempt of throwing a flower vase onto the street from 6th floor to frighten others. Just a criminal mischief?
nowonder

so what happened is not enough to charge them of attempted murder? Let’s go for the second choice: it’s a case of mental illness, they are demonstrably retarded, and lock them into an appropriate hospital for life.

No wonder US military reputation is sinking down the toilet.

jikku

Asahi shinbun reports the police arrested the 4 teenagers (17 year old girl, her 15 year old brother, another 15 year old boy and 18 year old boy).

調べに姉弟は「ロープを張ったのはほかの２人だ。けがを負わせるつもりでやったのではない」と話し、１８歳の少年は「ロープは４人で相談して張った。殺人未遂に問われるとは思わなかった」と話しているという。

The girl and her brother say the other two boys did it and the 18 year old boy says all four of them did it. Now I wonder how the police will handle this one on the investigation. Who is saying the truth?
faljal

偽名・うその連絡先申告　米兵の子

武蔵村山市内では、今年六月以降、交差点にコーン標識が置かれたり、道路にロープが張られたり、住宅のインターホンが次々と鳴らされたりするいたずらが五、六件発生。事件現場周辺の道路にもコーン標識や鉄くずがまかれた形跡があった。防犯カメラの映像などから、一連のいたずらに四人が関与した可能性が高いという。
http://www.tokyo-np.co.jp/article/national/news/CK2009120602000052.html

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/news/20091205-OYT1T01243.htm
quadwings

If the teens were the average American tourists/students, then they should by all means be thrown in Japanese jail to await prosecution. It’s unfortunate that Japanese police and legal system are known for mistreatment of the accused.(guilty or otherwise)

On the other hand, as dependants of US military personnel, they should not be under Japanese jurisdiction.

Having said, that, the teens should be investigated and/or prosecuted under applicable US laws, at the discretion of the US military.

U.S. military refuses to cooperate with Japanese police – will not hand over teens accused of attempted murder

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