Nomura sued for sex and race discrimination
A few months back, I posted about an article that claimed former female employees of Lehman Brothers were being made to serve tea after their company was taken over by Nomura Holdings. The article implied that women used to the Lehman’s treatment of female employees found the conditions at Nomura to unfair and demeaning.
Now it seems two women in London are suing the Nomura for sex and race discrimination and unfair dismissal:
In legal papers, Miss Murphy claims that during a business meeting one male client said to her female colleague “Oh, you don’t have your honkers out today I see”.
The documents say: “Miss Murphy was initially not sure what he was referring to but [the colleague] clarified honkers referred to her breasts.
“She went on to say there was no point in standing up to him as he would smear your reputation in the entire market and that ultimately it was better just to accept it.”
Miss Murphy also claimed that when she was chatting to a trader about hiring a cleaner he allegedly said “Well, you’re a woman. That’s where you belong – at home cleaning the floors”.
At a team dinner, another male colleague allegedly said “Everyone knows the key to cheating on your wife is not getting caught”.
Miss Murphy says that she was excluded from clients and marginalised before being made redundant in March this year. She also claims that she was ridiculed for her American accent, with traders allegedly making remarks like “Go for it” in a mock accent.
She said that clients were also described in “unusual and unacceptable ways”, such as one Dutch trader, who was labelled a “weirdo Euro client”.
[...]
Miss Francis, who is originally from New Zealand but speaks fluent Japanese, said that during a conference call with up to 1,000 of her global peers, a male colleague humiliated her by saying “Don’t listen to her. She is just a Kiwi”.
She said that her new Japanese bosses showed “remarkable disregard” for her clients wishing to retain her as their primary sales contact.
“I believe that I would not have been treated in this way if I was a male employee and especially if I was a Japanese male employee,” Miss Francis said.
She was made redundant because she was “too outspoken and female”, her former boss allegedly told Miss Murphy.
He also allegedly said that “the Japanese hate women, especially if they are too loud”.
An official spokesman for Nomura has denied the charges of racism and sexism and has stated that the two were dismissed “by reason of redundancy as part of a wider reorganisation following the Lehman Brothers acquisition.”
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“‘I believe that I would not have been treated in this way if I was a male employee and especially if I was a Japanese male employee’ Miss Francis said.”
maybe, but she had propably been treated even worse, had she been a japanese female employee. oh, wait, in that case she wouldn’t have become a trader.
time for japanese women to stand up, i would say. (…but isn’t this defensiveness exactly what we western men love so much about japanese women?)
Nomura have been sued before, however they successfully defended the previous case.
—time for japanese women to stand up, i would say.—
well.. are you meaning the “became lesbian”-movement or are you meaning the social postion of women?
in first case it will kill japanese nation because of the over-oldering and massive disbalance inside of japanese family-structures already.
in the second one its not what the yakuza+kaioretzu bosses and japanese royal-clans want to be happend.
aside that all poor men doing the same shit for rich elites and their bitches in most japnese “over 2000 employed”-companies.
>during a business meeting one male client said
So is she suing the employer or the client?
>“Well, you’re a woman. That’s where you belong – at home cleaning the floors”
I can imagine myself saying this to a woman, as a joke.
>another male colleague allegedly said “Everyone knows the key to cheating on your wife is not getting caught”.
Where is a discrimination?
>clients were also described in “unusual and unacceptable ways”, such as one Dutch trader, who was labelled a “weirdo Euro client”.
Yawn.
This shows me that this woman can’t handle a job in that position.
This huge company, Nomura, is being entirely unprofessional, rude, and vulgar. I don’t know if you know any professional etiquette, but there are some basic ethics that people follow in business. There just are things that you aren’t supposed to say.
Everyone of those comments directed at Ms. Murphy above in the article were blatantly out of place and quite unnecessary. For the quote you picked, “Well, you’re a woman. That’s where you belong – at home cleaning the floors”. You may think that the person who said this meant it as a joke since I’m going to guess that you’re a guy. Try to think of this in a woman’s perspective. This is just something you should never say, especially in a business setting. Maybe you don’t equate sexism and racism, but these two are very much the same in principle. The hate is displayed differently, but it is still a hate. Say you were talking to a African-American business partner about hiring a cleaner and you tell her that she should clean because of her color and the history of slaves in the US. You may say this as a joke but even as a joke, this is unacceptable. I’m sure you agree too. Now, you may protest that the two cases are so very different and that race and sex can’t be compared in such a way, but you are wrong. Sexism is a big issue, as big as racism, whether you want to admit of not. Women have been looked down upon virtually everywhere throughout human history. (sure, there were a few exceptions) Only in the modern era, women have steadily gained equality among men. They still have quite a way to go, though. Maybe eventually, in the future, race and sex will have equality, but with your kind of thinking, that won’t be possible.
In the article I read things like “at a team dinner” (=nomikai, a very informal situation) and “when she was chatting to a trader about hiring a cleaner”. Doesn’t sound like a business setting to me.
You are putting slavery and racial discrimination on the same level as men believing that women should take care of the house?
Men and women are not equal in everything. Of course women must have equal rights but IMHO it’s against nature to make life for men and women completely equal in all aspects. I am waiting for the day when women ask men to give birth to children for the sake of sexual equality.
While I am totally fine with women who decide to have a career in business, I don’t have to be ashamed of believing that a career as a mother and housewife suits the nature of women. And it has got to be OK to make a joke about it (maybe not at work) just as I won’t claim sexual harassment if a woman tells me a joke like “Guys only think with their P….”.
. I am waiting for the day when women ask men to give birth to children for the sake of sexual equality.–
already done back in 60′ens. failed until now because of genetical and social engineering so homosexial movements uses it as a Thought-terminating cliché in most disscusting talks about female/male superiority.
ohh.. aside pregnant Schwarzeneger sifi-fun..
–Men and women are not equal in everything.–
wrong. no living, stand-alone and self-contained personalitya in this universe is “equal”. thats a second law of the nature.
–While I am totally fine with women who decide to have a career in business, I don’t have to be ashamed of believing that a career as a mother and housewife suits the nature of women.–
sml..i did i do and i will never belive this shit. its never about to “have” its always only and only about “not to have”. aside “being fine with others way of life and paying for it with own time and body”
Where can I find this list of laws of nature? It’s not in my biology textbook.
Where can I find this list of laws of nature? It’s not in my biology textbook.—
whahahahahahaha.. dude, you got years of education and you can find the first law of the evolution and second law of the nature? gosh… what a waste of time and money!
Would you like to present a source? The only “law of nature” I can think of is in the philosophical sense, even there it’s hardly something universally agreed upon and I don’t see how it’s relevant to this topic.
well. so, you jumped from biology tsxtbooks into philosophy..
– I don’t see how it’s relevant to this topic–
in a first place it is relevant to the Ken Astons posting.
That’s not a source, it sounds like bs.
How so? You said this so called “law of nature” says that men and women are equal in everything.
You say
Apparently I’m missing something so basic in my education that It’s laughter worthy that I don’t know it. I’d like to know what it is, longus. Even a simple link to a credible source will do.
There is no “first law of the [sic] evolution,” in a scientific sense. This might be a mixed-up reference to “survival of the fittest” perhaps, but who knows. The second “law of nature” is even sillier, as there is no single “law of nature.” The Second Law of Thermodynamics? Newton’s Second Law of Motion? Who knows….
You can’t mess with thermodynamics!
That’s not a source, it sounds like bs.—
no, its an answer on your trolling.
–How so?–
in the direct meaning. he was wrong, i corrected him.
–You said this so called “law of nature” says that men and women are equal in everything.—
nope. thats what you are saying. i say that “NO living, stand-alone and self-contained personality in this universe is “equal”.” (next time please read the whole sentence. it will maybe make your trolling more reasonable)
–Apparently I’m missing something so basic in my education that It’s laughter worthy that I don’t know it. I’d like to know what it is, longus. Even a simple link to a credible source will do.–
well. i will not go into the “teaching” lessons. it cost many time, hard talks and book-research. i dont see you are going to pay for it and you are not my family or friend. maybe you should start with the holy bible, then switch to the “sophies world” and then walk the whole education(inclusive the core of social/natural/chemical evolutionists, theoretical physicans, chaos mathematicians, metaphysician and existentialists (you missed) AGAIN.) have fun!
– This might be a mixed-up reference to “survival of the fittest” perhaps, but who knows. –
geshhh.. “survival of the fitest” was oversimple description of the whole evolution-theory. dont make it into the LAW.
—The second “law of nature” is even sillier, as there is no single “law of nature.”–
i dont get your point..
–The Second Law of Thermodynamics? Newton’s Second Law of Motion?–
hmmm.. looks that you like explosion-science..
Men and women are equal or not. You said that he was wrong, which can only mean that they are equal, which they obviously are not.
You’re not even making any sense anymore. What on earth is a “stand-alone and self-contained personality? And what in the world does that have to do with the equality of men and women?
So instead of a simple answer, you go on a rant about how it’s too much work? And at the same time you write a paragraph on how much you don’t want to answer? What does the bible have anything to do with this discussion? And what the hell is a “theoretical physican”? Some sort of new science that I’ve yet to hear about?
Where did he say it makes it into a law? You must be able to read invisible words in the sentence that normal people can’t.
There is no single “second law of nature”.
So what IS this “law” you are referring to?
And in terms of education, you really ought to start with basic English grammar and spelling. And then we can move into proper debate techniques, which do not include stalling, waffling, and general spouting of nonsense. Things like “you don’t understand but I can’t be bothered telling you” are no more acceptable than “you’re wrong but I can’t be bothered telling you why you are wrong.” That is a classic example of trolling.
The Bible isn’t the right place to start getting an education either. Otherwise you might end up thinking the universe was created in a few days and that fig trees are wicked.
“geshhh.. “survival of the fitest” was oversimple description of the whole evolution-theory. dont make it into the LAW.”
So what is this LAW? To put it simply, what the hell are you talking about?
“i dont get your point..”
I suppose I was far too obscure, hiding my point about there being no single “law of nature” by saying “there is no single ‘law of nature.’” There are laws of gravity, motion, thermodynamics, and other physical and chemical laws, but no overarching “Law of Nature” that ties everything together – not even the hypothesized Unified Field Theory. So what is this law?
Men and women are equal or not. You said that he was wrong, which can only mean that they are equal, which they obviously are not.—
again: “NO living, stand-alone and self-contained personality in this universe is “equal”.”
–What on earth is a “stand-alone and self-contained personality?—
well.. the dictionary is your friend.
–And what in the world does that have to do with the equality of men and women?–
everything!
–So instead of a simple answer, you go on a rant about how it’s too much work?–
you never asked for a simple answer.
–And at the same time you write a paragraph on how much you don’t want to answer?–
never said that. i said i will not waste my own time and money on it.
–What does the bible have anything to do with this discussion?–
very much..
–And what the hell is a “theoretical physican”? Some sort of new science that I’ve yet to hear about?—
lol..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physics
—Where did he say it makes it into a law? You must be able to read invisible words in the sentence that normal people can’t.—
“”There is no “first law of the [sic] evolution,” in a scientific sense. This might be a mixed-up reference to “survival of the fittest” perhaps, but who knows.”"
seriously, you should start to read whole posting..
–There is no single “second law of nature”.–
dude, are you Overthinker?
aside, THERE IS ONLY ONE SECOND LAW OF NATURE.
@Overthinker
–And in terms of education, you really ought to start with basic English grammar and spelling–
lol.. no, thanks..
—And then we can move into proper debate techniques, which do not include stalling, waffling, and general spouting of nonsense. Things like “you don’t understand but I can’t be bothered telling you” are no more acceptable than “you’re wrong but I can’t be bothered telling you why you are wrong.” That is a classic example of trolling. –
soo, you think i calle myself “weirdo” and started atacking myself about ONE of my random senteces without to read the whole postings? hmmmmm….. nope. just “no”.
–The Bible isn’t the right place to start getting an education either.–
actualy, it is.. in this case it is the best place for the start.
—Otherwise you might end up thinking the universe was created in a few days and that fig trees are wicked.—
smile, if you will stop with the bible.
—To put it simply, what the hell are you talking about?—
hallo! someone should read the whole topic again!
— There are laws of gravity, motion, thermodynamics, and other physical and chemical laws, but no overarching “Law of Nature” that ties everything together – not even the hypothesized Unified Field Theory. So what is this law?—
overarching “Laws of Nature” that ties everything together.
You have not said a single damn thing. You are trolling here, plain and simple. You refuse to explain, to clarify yourself, or to engage in any sort of meaningful conversation. Can you answer this one question – WHAT IS THE SECOND LAW OF NATURE?
“actualy, it is.. in this case it is the best place for the start.”
No, you need to start with Julia Child’s “Mastering the Art of French Cooking.” I’m not going to tell you why, either. You should know, since if you don’t know, why then you obviously need more education. I mean, it’s self-evident, really. It’s got everything to with this topic under discussion, not that anyone knows what that is, but it doesn’t matter as all I have to do is proclaim it is vital and leave it at that.
Oh, and:
———-
“lol..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physics”
———-
FAIL. Complete and utter FAIL. Perhaps if you weren’t so contemptuous of correct English you might begin to realise where you failed.
I ask because those words strung together make no sense, clarify.
And I can say “nothing!”, specify. You seem to be the only one making the connection.
Oh? But I did. “I’d like to know what it is, longus. Even a simple link to a credible source will do.”
The bible is as relevant as my left sock.
Theoretical physics is not “Theoretical physicans”. Jesus, at least spell the things you say I ought to know correctly. It’s obvious that you don’t know what you’re even talking about.
tl;dr – Stop the trolling or start backing up your arguments with evidence, or at minimum, make an effort to improve your English to a comprehensible level.
“You are trolling here, plain and simple. “
You’d think a guy who goes by “Longus Dickus” would be so much better than that…
“Theoretical physicans” – hmmm. I wonder if this is a branch of medicine (or rather, “medicne”) that doesn’t actually treat patients…. Or perhaps a doctor that doesn’t really exist?
“I can imagine myself saying this to a woman, as a joke.”
As a joke? How is that a joke? It has no structure, no punchline, no irony, no pun, no surreal aspect to it. There isn’t actually anything funny about that unless you get a kick out of insulting women. There’s no comedic value otherwise.
This is a joke.
Q:A man runs over a woman with his car. Who’s fault is it?
A:The man’s. What was he doing driving in the kitchen?
See the difference?
Just saying “You’re a woman, so you should do the cleaning” is like saying “You’re black, so you should pick the cotton fields.”
There is a difference between normal, light-hearted insults that get passed around between co-workers, and taking seriously historical injustices and throwing them back in the faces of those who have had to fight against them.
It’s shock humour, made far easier by our over-sensitive PC world.
So the aim is to shock the person, so you can laugh about it?
Problem is, it’s really not that shocking. Just annoying.
It all depends on the person. Some people like shock humour, some just find it shocking. However it is far easier these days.
Some people like shock humour, some people find it shocking, some people just think it’s silly when in poor context. There are more options than you’re letting on, here.
The point is that she was telling him about hiring a cleaner. A bad and selfish joke, obviously.
I don’t know, “where is a discrimination?” You should be happy that your company luckily doesn’t discriminate against the mentally handicapped.
There is no country in the world were making a joke about cheating on someone would make a case as sexual harassment.
this whole financial business is making me sick.
“Oh, you don’t have your honkers out today I see”
She had them out previously? I recall one of the previous article about this had former Lehmenites complaining that they were reprimanded for dressing too casually. This may be related. Besides, a client said it, not a boss.
“Everyone knows the key to cheating on your wife is not getting caught”
This is discrimination? Replace ‘wife’ with ‘husband’ and it’s still every bit as true.
Being mocked for her accent? Welcome to the big leagues kid, if you can’t handle it I recommend you go back home to cry in your wine cooler with the rest of your Kappa Phi sisters.
Man, if the rest of the Lehman staff were this pathetic, it’s no wonder they let the company collapse. Ship ‘em out.
I find it refreshing that an article about female discrimination refers to them as “Miss”….
Come to think of it, for the kind of money these people were and are paid, I would turn up to work naked and dance on the conference table. Honour and an empty sack is worth the sack….
Not all Japanese companies treat women like shit, sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace has dropped significantly over the years. Working as a foreigner can be pretty rough sometimes. There was one asshole who said I laughed like a foreigner and would try to make fun of me for being foreign mocking the way I pronounced things, but when we were walking one night I put my arm around him and said “If we were in America, I’d kick your ass”, he stopped. As for the honkers thing, its pretty bad, female coworkers use to joke that since I had a big nose, that I had a big penis, but I suppose its different for guys. They even bought me large condoms for my going away present.. I still dont know how I really feel about that.
I agree with overthinker, they get paid crap, so why not just flick everyone off, kick the dude in the nuts that was talking about your honkers, say f$%k you in a Japanese accent, then fart on your boss’s head and walk out.
well. you are right. but some girl told me that this is a way how japanese society force females to focus on family and making children..
“force females to focus on family and making children”
Making children, eh? So… how’s that working out for them?
“Making children, eh? So… how’s that working out for them?”
If it’s Miyazaki you’re talking about, it works out to be something they do in high school.
It’s similar to back home, now that I think of it.
“I agree with overthinker, they get paid crap”
No, no, I was saying they get paid buckets. She was getting quarter of a million pounds a year. That is a hell of an income. So I was saying that for that income, I wouldn’t care if they made me work naked and strip on the conference table.
holy shit, ive never heard of a japanese company paying out those kind of bucks to women, shit she should take that shit and floss her teeth with her panties while doing the jig butt naked on a stripper pole during meetings
Everyone has their price – and you can buy me for quarter of a million sterling a year….
The only inequality part is how women in these positions respond.
Instead of picking up the phone and telling the guy “let me call your wife and tell her your hilarious cheating joke”, or instead of telling the honker guy “yes, since you have your micro penis kept inside today I figured I wouldn’t gloat with my magnificent hooters”, or just haul off and kick the morons right in the castanets.
Instead, they pull the race/sex card and take it to the courts – proving more or less they DON’T have what it takes to play in a mans work world.
Vonskippy- I think they’re doing the smart thing by suing.
This could potentially give the women thousands, perhaps millions in damages. This will also reveal the unprofessional work-environment of Nomura, causing long-term damage and hurting their reputation.
Kicking someone in the castanets may feel good for a day, but that is assault and the women would then be on the receiving end: a Nomura lawsuit against the women for assault.
Ironically, your comment neatly encapsulates the entire discrimination argument unconsciously in the final sentence.
“…they DON’T have what it takes to play in a mans (sic) work world.”
It isn’t a man’s work world, it’s a human being’s work world.
Rather, it was a man’s world exclusively, and women are moving into it. The question that seems to be implied is, do the rules get changed to suit the newcomers, or do the newcomers change to suit the existing situation?
The rules get changed to suit human rights.
Is it then a right to demand an environment adapt to you?
It’s a human right to be free of discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, gender, etc.
So yes.
So by extension Muslims migrating to Britain, for example, have the right to demand that society there adapt to serve their needs, rather than vice-versa?
It would depend on the nature of the change requested.
For example, suppose that Muslims request the availability of halal meals at state schools. That’s a perfectly reasonable request and it would be discriminatory not to grant it, especially considering schools already offer kosher meals for Jews.
OTOH if Muslims sought to impose the idea of fasting during Ramadan on the whole population, that would not be granted.
So then we need to establish boundaries. How is this done? What makes one request reasonable and the other not?
Anyway, this is veering wildly off topic. But my basic point is that the newcomers have the responsibility to adapt to the culture they are moving into. If they don’t like the situation, they are free not to move into it.
I can think of several ways of establishing boundaries. One is to consider if an action or mode of behaviour hurts one party more than it benefits another party. Often the phrase “reasonable” is used. Is such and such a thing reasonable by normal standards?
Merely because an particular culture is established in a situation, it doesn’t give it the automatic right to be forever perpetuated.
The alleged behaviour of the Nomura staff is against UK human rights law. That should be a clue that it is wrong, unless the law is a stupid law.
My impression is that it’s her non Japanese colleagues that were making these statements, but the Japanese higher ups allowed these things to happen.
Or something along those lines.
Now, shouldn’t some people wait to see the whole story before casting judgement against the company and all Japanese?
Come on people, just because this is Japan related doesn’t mean it’s automatic guilt by race. No doubt if it were the other way around, some here would then be saying, let’s wait for the whole story, Japanese are too PC and can’t take a joke, etc. etc.
First of all, I have no sympathy for the traders. They’re the ones that created the mess and when they ask for help, they get a taxpayer bailout. Boy, I’d like to have one of those bailout money as well.
They should have all gone out of business, as it is not the business of the government to pump money to business that made bad decisions and the business that were smart would pick all those business up. That’s not capitalism, that’s communism.
Having said that, I agree that it is wrong to discriminate agaist women, soley based on their sex. Nomura could have done more to prevent those unfortunate incidents. Based on the article, it only seems that she was only acting as a victim and not trying to confront the situation maturely. This is not about preching morals or ethics, who’s right or wrong, but what the current economic reality is.
I used to work for a company, which whites and people different from my ethnic group used to make ‘ethnic jokes’ and speak in ‘retarded’ English. Of course I could have screamed bloody murder, discrimination and whatever, which is within my rights, but management will use every excuse to boot you.
What I did was produce and be more efficient than those mocking me. Now when it became promotion time or to cut people, those people had problems and not me, as the results of performance came in black and white.
At the same time, the women were not using common sense. When you have customers of Nomura ‘acting up’ so to speak, she should have acted more maturely, instead of screaming bloody murder. With collegues, it is one thing to scream and complain to the perputrators, but also to management.
Reminds me of the world series, which American used to think that Japanese could not play ball. Ichiro left his mark, which is indisputable. Matsui was benched a lot and was not respected by the Yankees management, but no one can deny it was Hikeki Matsui that delivered the Yankees to championship. Did you see game 2 when Matusi hit that homerun (he arrived late) and that changed the whole flow of the game!!! He did the same in game 6!!! Now who can say that Matsui did not show results??? If it was not for Matsui, the Phillies would have been the champs 2x in a row. It was Matusi vs Phillies, dude!!!
The lady chose to be the Irabu and not Matsui. She can sue, make herself public to the whole world, but in the end she will lose. You know Nomura will find whatever excuse to fight it. Nomura may even say she lied on her application, as that’s what employers can do.
If I was a prospective employer, I would investigate her and if she could not be mature enough to ‘navigate’ through the ‘maze’ in dealing with customers and can only scream about her right, I would not hire them. Nomura could say no comment, but they would not hire them back, when asked by a prospective employer.
(this is what goes on in the real world and legit enough to not get sued).
The bottom line is, they should have dealt with the situation more maturely instead, especially when traders are looked upon as sleeze bags, creating the financial mess we are in today. Unfortunately, in the end, they’ll lose out, as that’s the way the labor market works. When there are lots of people to choose from, why bother choosing someone with lots of drama? In the eyes of the employer, it’s not worth it.
What I did was produce and be more efficient than those mocking me. Now when it became promotion time or to cut people, those people had problems and not me, as the results of performance came in black and white.—
well. ironicaly you proved thast the whole discrimination bark at each other system in your firm is working very well and earns money for the higher boses. aside that you will promoted until the highers will decide you got close enough and drop you away because the same BS wich you was ignoring all that time for own promotion.
it doesnt make you free when you got new slave-clothes.
i think that nomura had already speculated such a lawsuit before taking over the business.
so
wholesale redundancies for all employees of any other companies Nomura take over from now on then