Fight with facts my man.

Really? New York? Wow–Is NYC now Japan? You just contradicted your own point.

Get used to it when debating with ponta. This has been noted previously by others.

All I want you and anybody to ask is to be sensitive when you compare the countries and not to be misleading and hyperbolic on this kind of issue like nationalists in any country.

When somebody says one country is much worse in a specific aspect, without solid evidences, based on prejudice, that even smacks of racist. I am reacting to that part.

As a side, I don’t think I’m insistently bringing up non-relevant topics. Rather, as I said, I tried to get the topic back to the original one, Halloween party. My comment is in respond to your comment and it is off the topic to the extent you are off the topic.

The statement you made,
“Xenophobia exists in any society, based on published news articles.
Japan is not particularly different in this respect.”
I am not comfortable with.
I can’t vouch for any countries but my own, but I believe that England is different in this respect.

“I argued that the problem of over representing crimes by minority is well known in U.K. and I also pointed out the problem of white women missing syndrome in U.K.”

I agree with you on that last point, but not on the first. In the past, yes, England would have been guilty of misrepresentation of crime by race, and even now, I conceed, there are people who are still stuck in that mind-frame; but the news medias are so highly regulated, and politicians so scrutinised these days that any insinuation of racial discrimination leaves you open to large-scale derision.

The main reason I tire of this discussion is your insistence on bringing up non-relevant topics. You have brought to my attention many race crimes in England, but the topic is not race crime. You also saw fit to talk about the BNP (and hence fascism, so it was you who started that, not I), and what they have to do with xenophobic newsreporting, I cannot see. If anything, the media’s overwhelming ridicule of the BNP would serve to support my side of the argument, not yours.

Can we somehow wrap this up? Find some common ground, or at least make our separate conclusions?

I quoted what you said, “Japan is much worse than other countries・・・・ for xenophobic news-reporting.”

And you quoted JT articles, citing ““This is despite incontrovertible evidence that foreign crime rates are actually lower than those of Japanese.”

I argued that the problem of over representing crimes by minority is well known in U.K. and I also pointed out the problem of white women missing syndrome in U.K.

Granted the alleged problem exists, I asked to substantiate your claim that “Japan is much worse than other countries ” in this respect.

Now you are quitting, saying ponta is incapable of argument.

Which are incapable of argument?

why not?

” i wonder if the nationalists will go to Tokyo Disneyland to protest. they have the biggest halloween party in japan.”

I wonder if they will go too. I hope not. They looks crazy.

” come on ponta. you are not making any sense.”

Did I make myself clear?

george says

“In any case, Ponta, you are moving away from the thread.”

I tried to get back to the topic if you notice my comment at
2009-11-10 19:02:16
The topic is about Halloween party, george

“Which, Ponta, I think fairly supports what I said.”

No george, which does not support what you said,
You said, Japan is much worse than other countries (though I suppose I am thinking especially of England here) for xenophobic news-reporting.

You might want to argue that the crimes by foreigners in Japan are overrepresented. Though Japan times article is far from substantive about it, I’ll say that that might be true.
But it is well known that there are problems of over- representing crimes involving the minority in U.K. isn’t it?
And note also there is also Missing white woman syndrome in U.K. (Hawker may be the case in point, as David McNeill points out. See “Death of Lindsay Hawker” From Wikipedia,)

So what you should show is England is much better in this respect.

george says
“I was hinting at Japan’s fascist past. ”

That’s okay but what does that have to do with the topic?

Should I refer to brutal England empire and its cruel past when talking about English newsreport,crazy Englsih nationalists etc.?

“The other statement I said “On the subject of history books in Japan, you may find this article illuminating: …” was an aside, ”
Okay, it is an aside.

“And also, Ponta, in searching for news articles on race crime in Japan, I could not find that many. ”

I can find plenty of race crimes in England. that is an aside though.

“So all the instances of race crime you mention above are not considered crimes in Japan, yet they are in England. ”

Racial slur itself is not a crime in Japan, in the U.S. and probably in U.K. either..
All the crimes except racial slur I mentioned above are crimes in Japan.

Besides I never heard a Japanese person telling a black lady ” to run to her because ‘niggers should be used to running.’ ”
(from the article I quoted.)

And is smashing the windows at minority’s home not a crime in your counrty? Well it is a crime in Japan.

Anyway, if you want more instances of hate crimes in U.K. I’d be glad to present them. (Do you want me to put North Ireland aside?)

“My guess is the americans you mention were somehow uncurious, uninformed, or possibly morons. Such people exist in every country.”

The people that I mentioned were postdocs in a university in the Midwest. I have also met an interesting foreign postdoc there. She, who was Spanish studying archaeology, was possessed with the idea that Japan is a country on the Asian continent somewhere around southern part of China (probably somewhere around Macau). She was surprised when I told her that Japan is an island country that lies to the northeast of China. I learned from her that the world is larger than I thought.

Ponta….that is some decent sarcasm. Good show! Previously you had usually not understood such, now you are using it. Great improvement! Whoever is coaching your english, I hope you will thank them.

Is it possible that its your surprised friend has some easily-triggered insecurities or latent nativist sensibilities? Anyway, you note the foreigner compliments in English — sounds like a decent person to me.

In any case, Ponta, you are moving away from the thread. What I said before was “Japan is much worse than other countries (though I suppose I am thinking especially of England here) for xenophobic news-reporting.”

I made no mention of the small BNP party, nor the racism that exists in England. Well done you for bringing these things to my attention, even if they are beside the point.

Now, Ponta, if we actually try and read the news article link I sent you, we might come across this passage:

“For those who read and watch the Japanese press, these are scary times. Foreign crime is allegedly on the rise, members of the new Koizumi Cabinet are making clear policy statements against it, and the National Police Agency is ready for a new push.

“This is despite incontrovertible evidence that foreign crime rates are actually lower than those of Japanese.

“Of course, Japan’s overt stoking of public fear of foreigners is not in itself news — it has been going on for years.

‘However, the problem this time around is that the fearmongering is not merely another fad. It may be about to gel into public policy.”

Which, Ponta, I think fairly supports what I said.

Now, what I said before “As for fascism, Japan beats most countries hands down if you just read your history books…” This is a reference to the early Showa period and to 国家主義, which ended only with the disaster that was World War II. So, you see, without wanting to spell it out for you, I was hinting at Japan’s fascist past.

The other statement I said “On the subject of history books in Japan, you may find this article illuminating: …” was an aside, I thought interesting in and of itself, not connected, as you were so right to point out, with Japan being fascist.

You might find it also interesting to note (and this is another aside, Ponta) Aso’s not so long ago praising Japan for having “one culture, one civilization, one language, and one ethnic group.” A statement so far wrong he was derided. Perhaps he was voicing his own fascist dreams? They aren’t so far away from the BNPs goals, after all.

And also, Ponta, in searching for news articles on race crime in Japan, I could not find that many. However, I did discover here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Government_policy

that while discrimination is against the law in Japan, racial slurs and the like are just fine. So all the instances of race crime you mention above are not considered crimes in Japan, yet they are in England. Thus, you hear about them in the news.

Do you follow me, Ponta?

And I know some Japanese who are surprised to see foreigners use chopsticks.
As you said, perhaps because many Japanese do not have the knowledge that chopsticks are used in many occasions in Western countries nowadays and perhaps because sometimes foreigner use chopsticks much better than the Japanese.

There might be other reasons to be surprised.

For instance, a friend of mine told me that he was surprised to see a illiterate foreigner who looked goofy boasting of knowing shushi bar and talking as if he were an expert on Japan without actually knowing much. He said he had no choice but to compliment in English.

Overseas travel is hardly a requirement to know that McDonalds is enormously global, or that sushi and chopsticks can be found outside of asia. My guess is the americans you mention were somehow uncurious, uninformed, or possibly morons. Such people exist in every country. In my case I was surprised as the Japanese people I referred to generally fit profile of university educated, residents of Japans most international city (Tokyo), reasonably fluent in foreign language etc.

In my limited interactions with foreigners, I know that most Americans handle chopsticks nowadays. Many Brits, Germans and Frenches do either. But Italians, Spaniards, Austrians, a Dane and a Swiss whom I met before did not handle chopsticks (perhaps it is simply related to the number of Asian restaurants in their hometowns). It would take quite some time until the chopstick prejudice is eliminated from the Japanese. It is unfortunate that, as long as there are Westerners who do not handle chopsticks, ignorant Japanese can confirm that their prejudicial knowledge is correct.

leitmotiv,
I have had American people be surprised to hear that there are many McDonald’s in Japan, but I perceived it quite natural because they had never been to Japan.

“read this article for Taro Aso’s take on foreign crime in Japan.”
“sorry, Koizumi, not Aso…”

It says

“Nozawa talked about how Koizumi has charged him with making Japan the “world’s safest country” again. Ono was the most specific — saying that foreign crime and youth crime were among her policy priorities.”

So? Does it make Japan much worse than other countries?

george says

“The BNP is not represented in The Houses of Parliament,”

Correct, but notice that
”
In addition to already holding several metropolitan borough council seats, the BNP won their first county council seats[16] and European Parliament seats on 4 June 2009, winning one council seat in both Lancashire and Leicestershire, and one European Parliament seat each in Yorkshire and the Humber and North West England.[17]From Wikipedia, ”

And let’s take a look at the recent articles I base my claim.

As for the extreme right wingers,

Far right launch campaign of violence and intimidation against opponents
Aryan Martyrs’ Brigade issues death threat against anti-fascism activist Weyman Bennett, while student attacked after BNP protest
Matthew Taylor
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 2 August 2009

Campaigner called me a ‘nigger’ claim
6:00pm Wednesday 15th April 2009
asianimage.co.uk

I can go on and on if you want

As for the hate crime,

2 November 2009
Driver racially abused by cyclist(BBC)

11 October 2009 15:12 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Family targeted in racial attack

A mother and her three children were targeted in what police believe is a racially-motivated attack in Stockbridge Village.(BBC)

I can go on and on if you want.

As for the everyday racism

BBC reporters highlight racism on Bristol estate

Peter Walker
The Guardian, Monday 19 October 2009

Hideously diverse Britain: when everyday abuse turns racial
Traffic warden Rommelle is used to being unpopular. But she is always shocked when the slurs turn racial

Hugh Muir
guardian.co.uk, Friday 6 November 2009

I can go on and on if you want.

Is UK much better?

george says

“As for fascism, Japan beats most countries hands down if you just read your history books…”

In a fascist country I guess there is no controversy on history textbook.

And I wonder
if you actually read any Japanese history textbook and
if you know the nature of the controversy and
how this controversy lead you into believing that “Japan beats most countries hands down” “as for fascism”.

I know what you are talking about re chopsticks. I have even had Japanese people be surprised to hear that I am familiar with sushi and that it is widely available in the US.

read this article for Taro Aso’s take on foreign crime in Japan.

The BNP is not represented in The Houses of Parliament, and in the 2005 general election received 0.7% of the vote. They have gained in poplarity recently; however, this mostly stems from dissillusionment in the other parties, and is a reaction to the travesty that is the immigration system in England. (Whereas in Japan it is notoriously difficult to enter the country, in England all you have to do is turn up, apparently…)

To be honest, though, I really do worry about the BNP.

As for fascism, Japan beats most countries hands down if you just read your history books…
On the subject of history books in Japan, you may find this article illuminating:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies

Could you quote the PM’s statement?

“I am thinking especially of England here”

Which country has a racist party such as BNP?

And people “were, however, more shocked to hear that one in five Brits – quite a significant proportion – say they would “seriously consider” voting BNP. ”

(Britons need to start talking about race
Lola Adesioye
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 29 October 2009)”

“Man, why are the Japanese so quick to point out violence in other countries and then conclude that foreigners are violent?” (2009-11-06 14:09:09)

I wonder who you were talking to. Did you assume that LAL was Japanese? Few Japanese know the “LA Lakers’ fans’ winning celebration”. I don’t think he is Japanese.

“I simply detest the idea inherent in Japan that Japanese people are significantly different from foeigners… as if they’re so much better they cease to be mere mortals. Even when they praise a gaijin for using chopsticks, ah, hashi jouzu da ne, they are simply highlighting this divide: I, Japanese; you, foreign. A deep-rooted problem.” (2009-11-06 14:09:09)

and

“Japanese people (rightly, perhaps) assume that foreigners cannot speak their language, and (I think absurdly) extend this assumption to the use of chopsticks. Japanese culture is extremely and notorious difficult to breach, not in small part because of mind-sets like these.” (2009-11-10 16:02:03)

The reason the Japanese tend to assume that foreigners do not speak Japanese is that foreigners who speak Japanese were quite rare in this country until about 15 years ago, since majority of foreigners seen in this country were just tourists, and foreigners who lived in this country were rare. Likewise, there were few white foreigners who used chopsticks until 15 years or so ago. If you have a perfect command of Japanese, and if you handle chopsticks as perfectly as Asians, no Japanese would tell you that your command of Japanese and handling of chopsticks are good.

Japanese tend to praise foreigners who try to speak Japanese even when it is broken Japanese. However, after reading comments like yours on various English-language blogs and BBSs, I am inclined to think that, if someone’s Japanese is poor, the Japanese should disparage him for that, in order to avoid misunderstanding of foreigners like you.

Do you claim that based only on published news reports? Or have you spent significant time in other countries besides Japan?

Despite the warning, another party was planed by foreign kids, which provoked the nationalists.

Will this tendency continue? We don’t know.

But note there are Halloween parties going on elsewhere, Japanese and non-Japanese enjoying together.

I don’t understand why some people want hold a party in such a way to raise the racial tension.

Man, why are the Japanese so quick to point out violence in other countries and then conclude that foreigners are violent?

Man, why are…

Americans so stupid?
Australians such racists?
the French such pussies?
New Zealanders such sheep fuckers?

etc…

I, Japanese; you, foreign. A deep-rooted problem. But we are all human by the end of the day.

It’s only a problem when the Japanese do it, right? Westerners can just say “the Japanese are this and that” because they’re just so awesome and enlightened unlike those stupid racist, xenophobic Japanese people.

“you are STILL here chasing ・・・・”

You are still here but you can’t answer the simple questions?

“・・・you might actually do some good.”

My sarcasm went against LM as well as arerae, Japanese or non-Japanese. But only you have kept making wrong statements in respond to that.

“Clicking it sets off WOT alarms, where it is listed as solidly “unsatisfactory” for privacy, trustworthiness, etc”

All websites I posted are；

Occidentalism
Debito suppresses the opinions of dissenting foreigners II

Japan Probe
Halloween train in Japan

LIN & MAI
English School Halloween Party

Click the links, everyone can confirm that no website above is unsafe.(And I hope the moderator will testify they are all the website I linked.)

So YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.

Shame and pathetic, leitmotiv