CNN reports on child abduction
CNN weighs in on the case of an American arrested in Japan for trying to grab his children back from his Japanese ex-wife:
Had this custody drama played out in the United States, Christopher Savoie might be considered a hero — snatching his two little children back from an ex-wife who defied the law and ran off with them.
But this story unfolds 7,000 miles away in the Japanese city of Fukuoka, where the U.S. legal system holds no sway.
And here, Savoie sits in jail, charged with the abduction of minors. And his Japanese ex-wife — a fugitive in the United States for taking his children from Tennessee — is considered the victim.
“Japan is an important partner and friend of the U.S., but on this issue, our points of view differ,” the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo said Tuesday. “Our two nations approach divorce and child-rearing differently. Parental child abduction is not considered a crime in Japan.”
The CRC Japan blog has blasted the Tennessee judge in charge of this case, who apparently did not take action to block the children from visiting to a non-Hague Convention compliant country.
- Akihabara News – Gadgetry from Japan (Subscribe)
- dannychoo.com – Your portal to Japan (Subscribe)
Full RSS Feed
My Japanese wife sees very little wrong with what this woman has done. Doesn’t seem to matter to her that the husband dutifully paid child support and spousal support. Of course when I reverse the roles and pose the scenario as one in which Japanese children are abducted to America, she has a different opinion on the matter. Should I be worried about having kids with her?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Honestly, I worry about people who ask these kinds of questions –
if you can’t see yourself, deep in your heart’s love for the woman, to know deep deep down she is the one with whom you will spend the rest of your life with, to be remembered as being together with –
why are you with her in the first place? Thinking with your dick? I ask my friends this question all the time. When you KNOW, you KNOW that the person you’re with is the one. If not, don’t get married. As simple as that.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Hear that, HRT? That whooshing sound? That’s the sound of a joke flying over your head.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
In a nutshell, YES!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“Our two nations approach divorce and child-rearing differently. Parental child abduction is not considered a crime in Japan.” Doesn’t that seem to contradict why this guy got arrested?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ha. Seriously. It seems its only a crime when non-citizens do it.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Maybe he’s not considered a legal parent there.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Which one is considered legal parent in Japan has apparently not been determined, so I dont see how it could be a factor. The divorce occurred in the US.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The Fukuoka Police arrested him because “He grabbed the kids, forced them into his car, and drove off.”
It sounds like the kids didn’t want to go with him.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
That’s how the police justify the arrest, but they weren’t there to witness what happened.
It’s possible that he did force the kids into the car, but we can’t be entirely sure.
If the kids say he didn’t force them into the car, the police have no justification for the arrest. He would have been released already.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Oh come now, no one is going to take the testimony of prepubescent children as incontrovertible truth or even facts capable of having much sway. The kids are probably confused and frightened and would have no idea what to do, having been whisked off to one country, then having their dad appear out of nowhere. Who can say whether they were forced into the car or not. The plight of this man is not enviable but it’s only the latest in so, so many of these situations. (Though it’s true, Angelica Shiraishi had a somewhat happier end.) The real issue is why Japan hasn’t yet signed the Hague Convention. Debito’s theory of “they want to boost their population anyway they can” notwithstanding. Why, Japan?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Not really contradicting since U.S. Embassy in Tokyo’s explanation could be wrong. It was somewhat different but I found a case that a father under a divorce suit had abducted his 2-year-old boy and then was arrested. A lawyer gives a bit of explanation on the case, especially on the judicial decision given by the court, on the following WEB page:
法律クイズ：離婚係争中の妻が養育している子供を連れ去った夫に誘拐罪は成立する？
If the boy abducted by his biological father was more elder enough to make a reasonable decision, it might have been treated as a civil case but not as a criminal case.
Maybe, we need more fact-checking before starting debate? Especially for those people who often go into easy generalization and then start ranting and complaining.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
That’s exactly the point I was going to bring up. If there’s no such thing as parental abduction in Japan, why was this guy arrested? What? Is it pending a paternity test or something?
Being someone’s parent isn’t something that is based on nationality. Speaking of nationality, those two kids are Americans by birth, and presumably by place of birth.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Under Japanese Nationality Law, children born overseas to a Japanese national can technically have their Japanese nationality maintained if their parents apply to a Japanese consulate for a “Reservation of Japanese Nationality Notification” within 3 months of the child’s birth, but they must choose either their Japanese or other nationality by the age of 22. I have no idea if Mr. Savoie or his ex-wife completed this process, but it may have some bearing on the incident.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Considering that the kids were both born in Japan, to a Japanese parent, there has never been any doubt about whether they are Japanese or not.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I agree. If parental child abduction is not illegal, why is he in jail?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The story on CNN is pretty one sided. We dont know the whole story. Why do they keep calling her the “ex-Wife” is she not the biological mother?
Also the husband filed for full custody after they went to Japan.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
That’s a very good point.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
He filed for full custody because a parent that violates a court order and abducts children to a foreign country isn’t deserving of joint custody.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The clip says “Just steps…from the front door of the U.S Embassy local police stopped him,” According to this article he reached the gate but the consulate (not embassy) didn’t let him in.
http://is.gd/3NpZv
And Trufax–yeah, you should be worried.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Anybody thinking of marrying a J-girl and having kids should know this: a J-girl views her children as just that – her children. She thinks her kids don’t belong to the father at all. In her view, the father’s only job in life is to supply the wife and kids with money. If he can’t or won’t do that, or if the J-girl finds another source of funds (usually her parents), then she will be gone. Simple as that. I’ve lost count of the number of gaijin men I know that have learned this lesson the hard way. If you are the kind of guy that wants to know the joy of fatherhood, then don’t marry a J-girl. Period.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
This would apply to a lot of non-”J-Girls” I have known as well. The issue is not one of “Japanese women” vs. “American/Australian/British/French/back home women”, it is one of being able to communicate clearly with your partner and being committed to making the relationship work.
If you cannot discuss issues like this with your partner and work out where the two of you stand on very important issues like this, then don’t get married. Period.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Either you’ve had a bad personal experience which has warped your mind, or you were born a racist fool. Either way, I pity you.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I’m a guy who watched one too many blokes get burned by J-girls during the 17 years I lived in Japan. If that makes me a racist in your world, then so be it. At least I know what I am talking about – unlike you.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
dano,
What’s the rate of divorce amongst gaijin-Japanese couples? It’s easy to say Japanese are nasty critters if we merely consider divorced couples. What about happily married couples?
I have Japanese friends who are divorced from their gaijin spouse and maintain amicable relationships with their ex.
Japanese laws maintain that half Japanese children are Japanese while their gaijin parent is not. Hence the law affords protection only to citizens, not non citizens. I am not protecting or agreeing with this law but think the subject matter should not go into the Japanese people are wicked territory.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
@klimmer – I’m not Dano, but I have read the divorce rate for international marriages cited at 43% (in 2002). Overall divorce rate in Japan is something like 38%.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
dano, your comments are not only unwise and crass, they give the J-adorers something to bite into. Consequently they have an opportunity to avoid the real issue in this story, namely legalized parental child abduction by Japanese citizens.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The truth can be crass and even uncomfortable at times, but never unwise. It is what it is. If you can’t handle it, then too bad.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The problem is that many Japanese girls fall in love with Gaijin men, usually means Whites, White looking Hispanics or North American/European Blacks, because of their fascination with the Western culture. J-girls see the catalogue of the glamorous Western culture in Gaijin men. However, that can fade quickly after they get married and see the realities. But do not blame J-girls only. I think many Gaijin men definitely are taking advantage of this situation. Don’t you think it is easier generally for them to get laid in Japan than in their own countries? One thing Gaijins dare not talk about in Japan is why international couples are mostly Gaijin men and J-gilrs and not the other way around.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“One thing Gaijins dare not talk about in Japan is why international couples are mostly Gaijin men and J-gilrs and not the other way around.”
Almost 80% of international marriages in Japan in 2007 involved a Japanese man and a foreign woman. Of the remaining 20% (foreign husband, Japanese woman), less than 1/3 involved a non-Asian partner. That is straight from the 2007 Health and Welfare Ministry report.
The reason “Gaijins (sic) dare not talk about” your premise is because it is utter bollocks, not because it is true and a dark secret.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
>If you can’t handle it, then too bad.
Believe me, there are plenty of uncomfortable truths I can handle about Japan
And there are plenty of uncomfortable truths I can handle about marriage in general. I’ve seen dozens of mates (in the UK) go through the mangle, being good husbands/fathers and then, when the kids reach a certain age, having their wives divorce them for no readily apparent reason other than boredom/desire to flirt again. Of course, the wives get the kids, the house, plus a sizeable chunk of their hapless ex’s pay packet. In Japan there may be a slightly different dynamic at work, it seems no worse than the UK (parental abductions notwithstanding.)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“Almost 80% of international marriages in Japan in 2007 involved a Japanese man and a foreign woman.”
I think “a foreign woman” means mostlikely an Asian woman from other countries, also means non-White, with some exceptions.
You know they usually means Whites, White lookng Hispanics or North American Blacks when Japanese say “Gaijin.” Others are usally reffered as “Gaikokujin.”
“Of the remaining 20% (foreign husband, Japanese woman), less than 1/3 involved a non-Asian partner.”
So does this mean that more than 2/3 are involed with Asian partners?
How many j-girls do you know, who got married with other Asian? And how many of them do you know, who got married with White?
A manga about Japanese woman married with a White guy became a huge hit and even became a movie because many j-girls are fascinated with the idea.
Here in New York, very obviously most common interracial couples are White guys – Asian girls. Because of their racial issues, many Asian women try to date with White men even though interracial dating is not encouraged in this society. I do not say it is a White guy’s fault, of course not. I am just telling the reality of the society which people do not talk about.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“Almost 80% of international marriages in Japan in 2007 involved a Japanese man and a foreign woman.”
I think “a foreign woman” means mostlikely an Asian woman from other country, also means non-White, with some exceptions.
You know they usually means Whites, White lookng Hispanics or North American Blacks when Japanese say “Gaijin.” Others are usally reffered as “Gaikokujin.”
“Of the remaining 20% (foreign husband, Japanese woman), less than 1/3 involved a non-Asian partner.”
So does this mean that more than 2/3 of Japanese women who got married with foreign men are involed with Asian partners?
I wonder where they are.
How many j-girls do you know, who got married with other Asian? And how many of them do you know, who got married with White?
A manga about Japanese woman married with a White guy became a huge hit and even became a movie because many j-girls were fascinated with the idea.
Here in New York, very obviously most common interracial couples are White guys – Asian girls. Because of their racial issues, many Asian women try to date with White men even though interracial dating is not encouraged in this society. I do not say it is a White guy’s fault, of course not. I am just telling the reality of the society which people do not talk about.
And I do not know any j-girl who got married with other Asian men in NY, but I know plenty of them who got marrid with White guys.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
What goes on in New York is irrelevant, we’re talking about Japan (at least last I checked…). I know plenty of Japanese women (and will you knock off the “j-girls” already? Sheesh, how old are you? 13?) married to Koreans, Chinese and other Asians. Enough to show that the 2/3 figure for international marriages in Japan where the wife is Japanese and the husband non-Japanese Asian is probably correct.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Haha, I wish I could be 13 now. About j-girls, I just followed the poster, dano, as I wrote to him. I usually do not use that expression. Anyway, I know at least more than dozen Japanese women who are married to White guys, but I do not know any Japanese woman in Japan who is married to an Asian man personaly. But I have heard about them. So I do not say they do not exist. Certainly Korean guys become more popular among Japanese women beause of all those cute actors and singers, which is a wonderful I think. However, I simply do not believe those statistics as I do not believe everything any goverments say. Those #s are too far away from what I know in Japan. But maybe it is because their marriges do not appear to be obvious as international ones comapared to White men-Japanese women couples because they are racially same or close at least. Yet, even if those statistics, and you, are correct, still one thing you did not write was how many of “Almost 80% of international marriages in Japan in 2007 involved a Japanese man and a foreign woman.” are couples of Japanese men-White women. If they are a very small number, what you insist here does not make much sense. Don’t you agree? And how come what goes on in New York is irrelevant for this case? Here, as there are so many different types of men from all over the world, Japanese women have a much easier access to make contact with any Asian men, but most of them are after White or Black men, and they say that they met someone who happened to be Black or White men. So why they do not happen to meet Phillipino guys or Vietnamese guys, or even Mexican guys??
BTW I really like to hear from dano, who wrote “If you are the kind of guy that wants to know the joy of fatherhood, then don’t marry a J-girl Period” about what he is thinking about this abduction case after so many twists.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ah, sorry but that is a silly generalization of a whole culture. What/whom you would call ‘J-girls’. I guess they are not J women since girls is used in your explanation. My wife is Japanese and she does not think in the manner you believe her to be thinking. ‘Don’t marry a J-girl’ what is that all about. It sounds as odd as saying ‘Don’t marry a white woman because she is the white devil’.. Just makes little to no sense.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I agree with you. Amazing that so many people fall into same pothole. Know country of your spouse before you marry otherwise can get nasty surprises.
I wonder what was his plan next after reaching to American embassy.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
In the US, the woman was considered a fugitive, so the embassy most likely would’ve seen things his way and assisted him in leaving Japan and heading back to the US, where the wife is presumably banned from re-entry. At that point he could’ve raised his kids as normally as possible, while the wife, who committed the first crime by abducting the children across international borders, couldn’t do squat but sit in Japan.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Parental abduction is not a crime IF you are Japanese
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I am afraid there is some truth to that in these types of cases.
I am curious how this will play out in the Japanese media (compered to ex-Japan). I noticed that the early reports in Japanese only included the fathers name, but not the mothers.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
American consulates are run by the Japanese and will not let Americans in without an appointment. And since they ARE run by Japanese there is a serious conflict of interest.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Funny, I thought they were owned and operated by the US State Department. That would explain why all the important staff is American, and the lower-tier lackeys are US Government employees.
You can get in without an appointment. You just have to stand in line with everyone else. Appointments only give you “head of the line” privileges.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“a J-girl views her children as just that – her children.”
Yes, because they are apparently all the same, right?
Those Japanese sure are racist.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Three points – nothing but net.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It is interesting because I know of a case where an American man used the Japanese law to take his children away from his ex-wife (mother of the children). She ended up moving to America to try to use the American law to get parental custody of the kids. In those courts she won her case so if he returns to America then the kids would automatically become hers. He has not left Japan because Japanese law supports him. Yet my Japanese friend, elder sister of the ex-wife, told me this is because the Japanese courts support men and women have no chance. So what if this Tennessee father had just gone to the Japanese courts first instead of trying to take his kids and plead his case her. Would he have had a better chance?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
The moral of the story:
When wading chest-deep through icky international child custody laws with a country that does not follow international norm, try to avoid abruptly re-abducting your children into an unknown car and speeding to the nearest embassy.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Something abut this doesn’t pass the smell test. I suspect one or both of these parents is seriously whacked.
Dad lost me at, “He grabbed the kids, forced them into his car, and drove off.”
No matter how inappropriate you think your kids being in a foreign country are, if you have to remove them by force and in doing so traumatize them you’re not thinking about them, only about being right and getting back at your ex.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
This issue has nothing to do with the father being worried that his children are in a foreign country. He can’t visit his children at all, despite a court order giving him full custody. I’m not sure what else you would expect someone to do in this kind of situation.
Child abduction is not unique to Japan, but the lack of cooperation by authorities here is extremely troubling.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
True.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
–So what if this Tennessee father had just gone to the Japanese courts first instead of trying to take his kids and plead his case her. Would he have had a better chance?–
it would warn his ex-wife and her family.(noone knows who they are) but it will secure his rights in japanese justice. other side of problem are that he will waste a big bunch money and those children will get into the “gaijin-bastard” hell.(not that hit in all Japan)
here how other countries handle this..
http://www.manches.com/downloads/briefings/Applicable_law_briefing_note.pdf
http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2ioum-hello-eu-citizen-divorce-papers
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Just goes to show that gaijin are even worse off than women in Japan.
A fun read…
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Debito.org is not a reliable source of information.
If your spouse owes you money but refuses to pay, you do not need to know “the workplace” or “bank account” to seek remedy. All you have to know is the where about of the ex-spouse, which you can get from the juminhyo system.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Did Debito’s article lead you to believe that?
What a misleading article!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I’m not sure what half of you are complaining about. In America, women almost always win custody of their children, had this case been taken to American court, there would very little chance the father would win custody anyway.
Besides, we don’t know why his wife left him, in fact we don’t know anything about the wife at all. Perhaps he was a bad husband/father?
Most importantly, we don’t know what that the children want. We really don’t know enough about the situation to make any judgement.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
In America, women almost always win custody of their children
Are you sure about that? The key question — with any relevance to this case — would be how many mothers win sole custody (not joint-custody) when custody is contested in US. I dont think “almost always win” would be the case.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
did you read the article or just the headline?..
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Rate this comment:
0 
0
These women in america get sole custody but the fathers still get visitation rights. The Fathers in Japan do not get that right to much tragedy.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
As I showed before, the visitation right is granted by the court in Japan.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Being father myself. Not being able to see your children must be absolutely terrible.
In Japan if the parents divorce what is quite standard is that the mother will not let the father see their children. In contrast to say Europe or Scandinavia, where divorce is quite common. If the child is living at her mother´s place then the children will stay at their fathers on weekends or visa versa.
I know 2 fathers in Japan who are not allowed to see their children in Japan. Both were married to a Japanese. While the marriage failed, not letting the fathers see their children is just being extremely selfish and self centered in my view. This is completely unheard of in Scandinavia. While I do love Japan, there are some issues here which completely blows my mind and one of them is the issue of child custody and divorce.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I know (at least) 2 fathers in Japan who are allowed to see their children in Japan. Both were married to a Japanese. The reason for their divorce was alcoholism and/or DV (against a mother) caused by fathers but they are kindly granted permission to meet and spend some time with their children. There can be various reason for divorce and, obviously in some cases, any contact with (one of) parents should be disallowed. There might be some reason behind the story even when it looks irrational at first sight.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I had read about this story before he came to Japan. In the article before he came, it seemed like he was resigned to the fact that they were in Japan. I guess not.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=11171461
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Dad can also move to Japan on conditions that he get to see his kids every now and then.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
This is the risk you take when you have children with a Japanese woman. Obviously she wants to live in Japan with her parents rather than being a single mom in America. So why is it a surprise to anyone that she returned to Japan? Obviously she’s going to take the kids with her.
Only an American court granted the father custody, whereas a Japanese court would have probably given it to the mother. She broke an American law, he broke a Japanese law (allegedly).
Because they had an agreement to raise the kids in America, I think the father has the right to get his kids back. But the way he went about it was wrong. He did ask for a restraining order to prevent the mother from taking the kids, but the American court failed to help him.
This is yet another reason why men should not have children with a Japanese woman and expect to raise them in their home country. Unless they’re very good at picking women, they take a huge risk in doing so.
I’m curious if non-Japanese fathers have experiences like this if they continue to stay in Japan, even after a divorce.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
This is just a guess but it seems to me that a lot of the comments so far are made by people that don’t actually live in Japan.
Dano’s generalization is far too broad but I can hardly fault him as my initial reaction was something akin to “God damn mot)””%#’%'#(‘=)”!’&=%)&!”%&)!!!!!!! It happened AGAIN!!!” and after 30 seconds of anger and hatred towards every Japanese citizen in the country, I calmed down and realized that these women certainly do not symbolize the rule, but rather the exception.
I myself am not married nor have children but I have been close and I’ve lived here for 10 years. A friend of mine right now is going through a divorce with a Japanese women and I am worried for him regarding even visitation rights to his own child. When you read enough stories and new articles about this issue, then consider the futility of trying to fight it from a legal standpoint, I can easily see someone like Dano overreacting and then posting a comment like that.
Also I think some of you need to go back and read the CNN article and also other articles from his home state of Tennessee. The father had primary (not full) custody already. The mother was living there just to be close. Full custody was granted AFTER she kidnapped them. There is an arrest warrant out for her. So we have a Japanese women who is a criminal in the US and an American guy who, as a result, became a criminal in Japan.
She is the one that broke US law by taking them out of the country. When he found out, he probably knew that there was no legal course in Japan (I challenge anyone to find me one single case where a child has been abducted to Japan by a Japanese parent but then later turned over to the non-Japanese parent.. Just one case.. no? Can’t find one?? ok then.) so, faced with the prospect of never ever ever seeing his kids again, he got desperate and attempted to get them back to US soil where he would have a chance to plea his case.
I do feel bad for the guy, and the Judge should have acted much quicker.
Here is how I think the story will play out. They’ll let him out of jail and send him home. Kids will stay in Japan. And that is it. Gaijin loses again.
Meanwhile, let’s not forget that the Japanese desperately want Obama’s help to get back their own nationals that were abducted by North Korea in the 70s… ZZZzzz….
Oh and that silly Hague Convention thing…
Rate this comment:
0 
0
All I am going to say is that there is no possible comparison between children being “abducted” by a parent who, at least in theory, loves them and is going to take care of them and a person who was beaten up, thrown in a sack and carted off to a foreign country by complete strangers, yanked away from their homes and families without knowing if they would ever be able to see them again or even if they would be allowed to live. No comparison, NONE.
Parental abduction is a serious issue, but people who conflate it with what the Norks did only show that they are clueless morons who don’t deserve to be taken seriously.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Fair enough. I retract that statement.
(btw. never heard the term “nork” before.)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
@ Rob
Why would you retract that? The analogy is apt and has been brought forth by many other victims of this legal situation (lack thereof, to be more precise.) Many more than 13 – 15 victims, which seems to be the current number of alleged Japanese abductees by the norks. Just because LB would dismiss as “clueless morons” anyone who understands and uses analogies is no reason to retract — and shows he probably has little or no sympathetic understanding of the issue of this thread.
Any analogy can be apt at a certain level of abstraction, but lose its value at an unhelpful level of detail. Yes, the nork abductions are disgusting outrages and yes they were apparently carried out violently by the govt of the repellent “lil kim”. But those details do not detract from the hypocrisy in play here on Japan’s part. The hypocrisy where the abduction story described above unfolds, with no legal remedy as late as 2009, nor reasonable international cooperation by GoJ, while simultaneously Japan badgers the US for its muscle on nork abduction issue and continually tries to link what is essentially an unsolved crime of 12 or so abductions to discussions of tangible and current regional concern, particularly to Japan (i.e., nork nukes – often to the irritation of serious players at the table, like US, Korea, China).
Side note: Japan’s bungling of the DNA evidence, apparently in its zeal to generate sympathetic PR for the nork abductions (which should have been a slam dunk for technically advanced Japan), didn’t win it much sympathy, I am afraid. Japan could win itself more leverage through cooperation and harmonization with RoW on some obvious issues, rather than to tend towards “go-it-alone”.
Here is a video of some other “clueless morons”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko_o6Qm98QM
Rate this comment:
0 
0
That’s true and your analogy also lose its value, or it has as little value as an analogy with the hypocrisy where the separation story about mixed parentage described by Ota unfolds, with no legal remedy as late as 2009, nor reasonable international cooperation by the U.S. while urging Japan to sign the convention.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Please explain how deadbeat dads relate to abduction.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
@ponta
As usual, I dont understand the connection you wish to make. Can anyone else explain?
I am sorry that the US opted not to help Okinakwa with its education budget shortfalls in the specific way that Ota proposed. Perhaps Campbells suggestion to fix problem in Tokyo is the correct one. Some effective political action could perhap allocate a little less graft money to buy 6 lane highways to abandonded weed-choked resorts or other mal-investments of Japanese pension funds and taxes, and a bit more on education infrastructure in Okinawa. Anyway, I would assume you would be pleased with Campbells insistence on not using US schools to educate Japanese citizens, given Japans well known animosity towards non-Japanese basic education. In effect he perhaps did Ota a favor by helping uphold Japans societal norms in that area.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It is all about separation in abstract level.
1)North Korea forced a Japanese to go to NK using violence against her will and against her parents’ will. As a result, her parents were separated from their child.
2)Intentional parents divorced and a mother took a child with her, not necessarily against the child’s will, but against another parent’s will. As a result a parent and child are separated from another parent.
3)International father left mother and his child, disregarding the child’s will, possibly against the mother’s will. As a result, a child and a parent are separated from another parent.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
1) Parents are torn away from their child – want to have their child returned.
2) Parent is torn away from child – wants to have their child returned.
3) Parent abandons their child – mother and child presumably want the parent to return.
Pretty big difference if you ask me. Either way, the child in all of the situations is going to be pretty screwed up.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Johnson might say that’s typical colonial attitude, leitmotiv.
And you seem to be very sympathetic to American deadbeat dads
In any case, I don’t think 1) is related to 2) in a meaningful way any more than 1)(or 2)) is related to 3).I cited it to show your analogy fails.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
@ ponta
No, I am not sympathetic to deadbeat dads, japanese, american, or otherwise. I also have very limited sympathy for comments that are intended to steer away from topic of a thread. There may be some earlier Japan Probe threads about Okinawa situation. Perhaps you should post above comments there.
Sorry you think the comparison is completely unreasonable and invalid. Anyone else? Or is it just ponta and LB?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I would hope that anyone who was not a complete and total asshat would recognize the inherent difference between being clubbed over the head and dragged away by violent strangers, and being led away by one of your parents who thinks they are looking out for your best interests. I would like to think the difference is so patently clear that it doesn’t even need to be spelled out.
However, leitmotiv, knowing your recurring, monotonous theme is just playing the troll (and may I complement you on how well you do it, sir…..) I don’t think you’d get it even if it was laid out for you in a powerpoint presentation by Jesus himself. So I won’t waste any more electrons trying to make it clear for you.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Spluttering almost verbatim the same point second time is hardly convincing of much. But coupled with an accusation of me being “recurring, monotonous”, it starts to be humorous. Then being accused by you, of all people, of being a “troll”, now we have comedy.
But I recognize that the troll quality – let’s call it trollism – is largely in the eye of the beholder. . So you are of course free to define it if you wish as “anyone who disagrees with LB pointedly”.
I am entertained that you consider recruiting Jesus to your idea crusade. I am pretty sure Jesus would use a mac, though. FYI.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Kevin
(3) can be described as ” a family were torn apart because a father left mother and a child – mother and child presumably want the parent to return”.
In any case, note leitmotiv’s focus of the analogy is upon the hypocrisy of the governments. His argument is basically that though the analogy fails in the details of the abduction, but it holds in the level of hypocritical nature of the governments.
leitmotiv said;
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Kevin, do you think his analogy between North Korean abduction and the international parental abduction by some countries —Japan is not the only country—holds?
(I wrote another comment, but it hasn’t come out yet)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
An individual’s crimes, well-planned organized crimes by a country, an attitude of a government, … and everything jumble together and then an accusation “hypocrite” goes around… When will the flamewar start here?
Parental child abduction is a serious issue of course, but children are abducted by a person who are well familiarized and often trusted by children and are brought to a relatively open and liberal country in many cases. While in the case of North Korea, people are sometimes suddenly attacked by unknown persons and sent to an unknown country with no diplomatic relations with their home country, and then they are often forced to live under a dictatorship with a very little chance to escape from there by their own will.
Anything worth comparing?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I don’t thing Japan will never sign the Hague Convention. And even if they do, they will never honour it. There are two main reasons: 1) Japan is loathe to respect foreign courts 2) In Japan, parental abduction/complete separation of the father from his kids is the norm. Does anyone think they’re going to change that because of what some uppity gaijins want?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I don’t thing Japan will never =
I don’t think Japan will ever (!)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Well, there was a happier story re: custody. In June, an American woman named Angelica Shiraishi told her Japanese husband she wanted a divorce. They were living in Japan. He took their three children (between nursing age and six years old) and disappeared with all their credit cards, having emptied the bank accounts she had access to. She was in a (understandable) panic for two weeks. When they found the husband (his parents tipped off the police), she retrieved the kids.
I can only assume this worked because of a gender bias. “Mothers are the parent that counts” yadda yadda. The same kind of thing happens in the states (though I hear it is changing recently), and it’s a ridiculously sexist approach to custody determination. But it seems to have trumped the gaijin card in this case. Doesn’t make it right, it’s just something that happened.
Other than that, no, I can’t think of any instances where
Rate this comment:
0 
0
F.Y.I.
Figure 5-2 Trends in percent distribution of divorces by husband or wife who has parental authority,1950-1998
http://www1.mhlw.go.jp/toukei/rikon_8/repo5.html
As for the visiting right by a ex wife/husband who does not have parental authority.
面接交渉権について
http://www.rikon.to/contents2-4.htm
It is not stipulated by law but it is granted and practiced by courts.
Can you you refuse the visiting by ex-wife/husband who has no parental authority?
No, you can’t
Can you limit/stop the visiting?
Yes, in case ex-wife/husband meet a child without agreement or s/he tried to take away the child, he/she has the right to limit the visiting .
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It is a sad situation. I really think the blame may lie in the lack of communication between the mother and father from way way back. People enter marriage and having kids without having discussed or agreed courses of behaviour for worst-case scenarios (the most unromantic conversation, but possibly most useful, conversation you could ever have).
It really doesn’t matter what the courts say. The only people who can sort this out are the mother and father and kids themselves. And if nothing budges then the foreign guy loses out. You know what they say, he (or rather, she) who has the gold makes the rules.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I’d say in most marriage break-ups that I’ve ever had experience of or read about, the guy loses out more than the woman. He pays, she gets the (their) kids and (his) home. In child custody issues, in Japan being a foreigner is also a surefire losing ticket.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Do you think in child custody case his wife being a foreigner was a factor in her losing primary custody in the U.S.?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
In Tennessee, I wouldn’t doubt it, but at least the judge gave her the benefit of the doubt in assuming that she wouldn’t flee the country.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ops, sorry they had joint custody.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By the way I for one think Noriko should have abide by the law in U.S. I sympathize with her difficult situation, though.
As for a situation in which foreign divorced parent was put,
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Its sad that these two adults could not pull their heads out of their asses long enough to consider how abducting these children to Japan and later trying to abduct them back to the US would affect them. Granted I can’t imagine what I would do in the situation of the father. He seemed to have no recourse. I’m guessing after the wife became a fugitive there was no chance she would ever allow the kids to leave Japan. It’s definitely a horrible situation for those kids. When a marriage breaks up its common for people to go their separate ways. But when you have a child you are making a commitment forever. There was no mention of this guy being abusive or anything other than a good father, so I can’t imagine what drove her to doing that to her children in the first place. If she were rescuing them from some horrible situation maybe I could see it. But in reality all she did was cause them more trauma. I mean I guess we don’t know all the facts but I really hate to see that kind of thing happen to young kids like that. Hard to believe that the Japanese court system just didn’t even care that she had broken the law by keeping them in Japan.
I’m not sure if this was covered already but do the kids have rights as US citizens? I mean it seems like they were probably born and lived in the US. Could the Japanese court system keep them here is they didn’t want to stay? There was no mention of what the kids actually wanted but that is usually a consideration in divorce cases.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
“I can’t imagine what drove her to doing that to her children in the first place.”
Imagine you are a single mother in a foreign country. Would you like to raise your children where you have no citizenship, where there are all kinds of visa restrictions as to work, where the language is not your mother tongue, and where you have no voting rights? Or would you like to raise them in the country of your citizenship.
I think limiting the place of living of the foreign parent is a kind of systematic discrimination. In a few years, s/he will give up the custody, and go back to her/his home country.
In Japan, the court never limits the place of living of the custodial parent, due to the article 22 (freedom of choice of residence) of the Constitution of Japan. I think it a very good practice.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
When you choose to bring another life into the world you have to realize that they will always come first. Yes maybe she had a desire to move away but is that really the best thing for their children? Yes it is possible for one parent to raise children but it is certainly not desirable. So yea I think in this case she should have toughed it out for the sake of the kids. It’s not like they couldn’t spend time in both countries (since the judge allowed it). Both of these parents had an obligation to do whats best for the kids. But depriving children of a father can’t really be seen as anything other than selfish in this case.
As far as the citizenship I am pretty sure that is her choice. Since her children are American citizens she could easily stay in the US as long as she wanted to. Other than paper work I don’t see how she faced any major obstacles. And from the ages of those kids it looks like she would have already been living there for 7 or 8 years at least.
So yea, stay in the US, abide by the law and maybe be less happy than you want to be for the sake of your kids. Unless there are factors we don’t know that are not in the article it would be an easy decision for me.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It is obvious that she thought moving to Japan was for the best interest of the children. What they needed after a bitter divorce was a fresh start and moving to another city or country was a good idea.
I actually do not understand why a divorced couple must stay in the town where their marriage was ruined to raise their children. Why do US courts routinely decide where the children must live after a divorce? I do not think it their business.
The distance may get longer, but the non-custodial parent can travel to see the children when s/he wanted.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
after divorce spl after DV, why mother has to stay near to father ( spl she is not even a US citizen) what about mothers and children rights ? why cant father visit or move in country where mother and and child want to live. he can also sacrifice his personal joy and fun for sake of children. its not fair for foreign mothers to become bounded in foriegn contry for sake of children when she is not even a us citizen. father can move to japan and take the citizenship there and live on alimony. and apply for custody. hardship is on foriegn mothers in forign lands to live like single moms away from her family and support..
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Here is some complaints from a Japanese lwayer in Okinawa.
誘拐大国日本?
http://www.amakata.jp/blog/2009/05/post-16bb.html
(It is not about this case, though)
In conclusion, he suggests Japan to sign the Hague Convention and Japanese media to pick up this issue. It is important especially for Okinawa, he says, to face up to the issue because international separation is rampant in Okinawa.
But he points out;
1)it is not true that if a Japanese parent had abducted his/her child in Japan, it is not a crime; It is a crime.
2)In Okinawa, there are many cases where American soldiers leave the children and Japanese wives and move to the U.S. and don’t pay the expense of bringing up the children.
CNN’s Kyung LahKyung Lah might want to check it. It might be happening in Korea too.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Facts:
-The divorce was granted in the U.S.
-The father was awarded visitation rights
-The mother abducted the children removing them from the U.S to Japan.
-the mother is a fugitive
The mother should be extradited and the children returned to the U.S.
The father apparently snapped and attempted an ill considered resolution. The plus side is this may draw more public and international attention to the issue.
Lesson Learned: If you are married to a Japanese and have children, treat her nice.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
According to the BBC’s report:
In Japan, where criminal trials have a 99% conviction rate, the death penalty has wide public support.
Japan is obvious totalitarian police state as I mentioned before somewhere. So, Americans are afraid of Christopher Savoie being sentenced to death penalty with 99% of possibility. Then again, Bill Clinton will be sent to Far East to rescue him. What is the compensation to the Japanese? Turtles?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ajapaさん、僕は日本に住んでいる日本人ですが、英語が得意ではないので、
日本語でコメントすることをお許しください。
‥というのも、Ajapaさんが、日本の司法制度に対して、あまりにも大きな
誤解をしておられるので、一人の日本人として、コメントしないわけにはいかなかったのです。
どなたか親切な方、すみませんが私のコメントを英訳していただけると助かります。
日本では約99%が裁判で有罪になるのは事実です。しかし、それは、
多くの事件で、容疑者が起訴されないケースが多いからです。
決して「逮捕された容疑者の99%が有罪になる」という意味ではありません。
今回の事件でも、逮捕されたアメリカ人は、恐らく、起訴されないでしょう。
誘拐容疑とは言っても、未遂に終わっている上に、誘拐に至った理由が、
民事上の理由を多数抱えているからです。
また、死刑制度についてですが、日本人の過半数は、確かに死刑制度の
存続を支持していますが、日本の法律では、誘拐を犯した犯人が
死刑になることは決してありません。刑法224条の「未成年に対する誘拐罪」が
適用されたとしても、最大で７年の懲役刑です。
しかも、この事件では未遂に終わっているため、恐らくアメリカ人容疑者は、
裁判にかけられることはなく、不起訴処分として釈放されることでしょう。
どうか、日本の司法制度について、偏見を持たず、正しく理解してもらえるよう
Ajapaさんにお願いします。確かに西洋の司法制度から見れば、奇妙なところも
あるかもしれませんが、日本は決して警察国家でも、全体主義国家でもありません。
どなたか親切な方、すみませんが私のコメントを英訳していただけると助かります。
Rate this comment:
0 
0
すみません、これは冗談のつもりで書いたものです。日本を北朝鮮になぞらえている所で分かっていただけると思ったのですが…
検察が起訴する率は６０％台とかなり低く、検察があらかじめかなりの司法判断を行っているという事は承知しています（これは問題でもある）。また、逮捕から送検の過程においても様々な判断が入るのでしょうね。
Akirakia, It’s just a joke. I am sure that Japan is not a totalitarian police state. I will summarize Akirakia’s comment by myself below:
1. It is true that criminal trials have a 99% conviction rate in Japan. But this fact, an extraordinary higher rate, is there due to the fact that public prosecutors do not prosecute so often, they tend to prosecute only when they are very confident of victory. So the 99% conviction rate does not imply that 99% of arrested people are given a judgment of guilty at all.
2. In this incident, Christopher Savoie will not be prosecuted since his attempt just failed, and even more, his motive, reason, and attempt for bringing back his children are considered mostly as a matter of civil affair, not a criminal one.
3. For death penalty in Japan, it is true that more than half of Japanese citizen support that. But it can never happen that a suspected person involved in abduction only is sentenced to death penalty. He, Christopher Savoie, will not even go to the court and soon will be released without being prosecuted.
There may be strange things in the Japanese judicial system compared to the western one. But please try to comprehend it properly without having any prejudice. Japan is not a totalitarian nor a police state.
—–
I (Ajapa here) am sorry for introducing confusion.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ajapaさんのは皮肉でしょう。
Ajapa is just being sarcastic.
Anpontan さんのブログでのコメントを見てみてください。
See his comment on Anpontan
http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/more-from-the-mailbag/#comment-20160
また、同じ場所で、Nigelboyさんが、その問題について、巧みに論じております。
And Nigelboy discussed it ingeniously on the same place.
http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/more-from-the-mailbag/#comment-20144
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Sorry Akirakia, I’m not going to translate your long winded speech about Japanese law (with no citations) into English. You’d think that after a minimum of 6 years studying English (possibly closer to 10 if you went to college) you’d be able to write even a small composition.
I’ve lived in Japan for about 6 years, and though Ajapa exaggerates a bit by calling Japan a “totalitarian police state”, it is definitely more so than other 1st world countries. Many suspects are forced to sign a confession of guilt, for example, see http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/07/world/asia/07iht-japan.1.5596308.html or http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7063316.stm. Since there’s no plea bargaining in Japan and confessions obtained under duress are viewed as infallible evidence, how is this any different than a policeman playing judge, jury and executioner?
Neither did you answer the BBC report criticism about the death penalty in Japan. I doubt anyone thinks Mr. Savoie will get the death penalty, but for those that do, the conditions are questionable at best and of course Japan won’t let anyone investigate the conditions.
At least you claimed that Japan is somehow “unusual” (奇妙) and that Westerners can’t understand it. Perhaps you should actually try to understand the criticism of Japan before playing the nihonjinron card and ignoring it.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
空気を読めKwyjibo
Rate this comment:
0 
0
There are cases of coerced confession in Japan as well as, for instance, in the U.S.
So what’s your ground for your assertion that Japan is definitely more totalitarian than other 1st world countries?
Plea bargaining has its own problem.
And confessions obtained under duress are viewed as void, that’s why people your articles cited were found not guilty.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
What that woman did is disgusting.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It seems that there are still too many confusion, misinformation, and misunderstanding.
On the comment made by U.S. Embassy in Tokyo:
“…Parental child abduction is not considered a crime in Japan.”
This is misleading. It is true that the Japanese often talks a comedic story of a miserable husband, who are alienated from his wife, and a stubborn wife, who goes back to her parent’s home along with their children without husband’s consent, are finally reconciled with a pitiful surrender of the husband. The story may bring a suit for divorce but in this case it may not be considered as a comedy but taken seriously. In this sense, “Parental Child Abduction” is often not considered a crime, as long as the family is well-functioning or having enough chance to function properly. Such incident happens for already divorced couples or couples under a divorce suit is completely different matter. If there are conflict between ex-husband and ex-wife, parental child abduction can be treated as a criminal case highly plausibly.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Just another point to make for those living here in Japan and not relating so much but a good to know point. When I left japan with my son to enter America, I was told I was required to have papers from my spouse or Ex that ok-ed the fact hat I was entering America with their child and this document had to be noterized, YET living America it was very easy for me to enter another country WITHOUT and legalized notification. So running from the States is easy without being questioed but returning is different. Even if this father made it out of the country with his kids, would America granted him the right to re-enter even though he has legal rights to them in the States. It would be nice to here from someone who has legal background to comment here. . .not just various insights.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
This reminds me of one important point everyone seems not to notice, or not to bother.
Sure, that Hague-whatever-Treaty may grant rights of both parents to meet their children after divorce… but what if she had enough of the US(or whatever country she finds herself in) and the people around her? She wants to go back to Japan, but the legal system in the US is such that, either she stays in the place she can not stand anymore to meet her children, or she gives up her rights for her own children and go home. And yes, many “foreign” women are foreced to stay in the US that way, not just Japanese ones. (And that is not an unique issue to Japanese women or the US… I`ve heared of plenty of cases especially from girls who married and went to places like the Middle East or other Muslim countries where women have no rights, and ended up in divorce… And yeah, remember that movie “Not Without My Daughter”?)
Add to the fact is that, in Japan, children are considered to belong to their mogher and she has strong attachment to them.
Hei, legality is not everything about life, especially if you married to someone from different culturral and legal background.
So we have stories from two sides, inter-cultural issue, and physical distance of two countries where ex-partners are from.
Someone calling others as “backward nation” without considering such issues must lack either brain or heart. Sorry, but no wonder that, someone, who can’t understand delicate issues of their own (ex-)partner and instead screaming how right he is, ends up in divorce.
I happen to not to believe that parent with such short sighted mind can raise their children well.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Didn’t he have any legal recourse there? Couldn’t he get any help from the US first? Why did he try to just grab them?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
CNN has an update on this.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/30/japan.savoie.children/
The father, Christopher Savoie, apparently became a naturalized Japanese citizen four years ago, listing a permanent address in Tokyo, they said.
And while he and Noriko Savoie, a Japanese native, divorced in Tennessee, the two never annulled their marriage in Japan, Japanese officials said.
Also, the two children at the center of the case hold Japanese passports, they said.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I saw this too, but that just doesn’t make sense. How was he back in the US if he was a naturalized Japanese citizen? Was he there on vacation, or there on a work visa?
I wonder if they are really referring to the permanent resident visa.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
And as an interesting addendum he’s already remarried…
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It’s over for him now. He’s not an American anymore.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Man, this story is a huge mess. It’s getting a ton of international attention right now.
This quote from a Tennessee broadcaster might give some insight into why this all started in the first place:
Ex-Wife Abducts Two Children, Disappears to Japan
I’m kind of curious to find out what Noriko’s lawyer in the US has to say about all this. He apparently didn’t like Christopher very much, but no other details were given.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Also, I found some links to Japanese articles covering the topic. They read like night and day:
わが子『奪還』の米人元夫 略取容疑、日本で逮捕
連れ去り：離婚した元妻から、通学の２人 容疑者逮捕－－福岡・柳川
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Did you know that he had been cheating on Noriko, but he lied to her and brought her to the US so that he could divorce her to be with his mistress (current wife) and the children?
Besides, he is a Japanese citizen from 4 years ago. Why he still keeps his American citizenship? Japan doesn’t allow double citizenship.
At first I felt so sorry for this guy, but now I know how the initial CNN report was one sided.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Yeah, exactly. It’s hard to feel sorry for a man who cheated on his wife, then forced her and their kids to move to American so that he could divorce her. He is a selfish man and has no one to blame but himself. The children are just pawns in his sick game.
Rate this comment:
0 
0