FAIL

http://www.loneleeplanet.com/blogs/loneleeplanet/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iruka-dolphin-480×360.jpg

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It’s tradition. They will never adopt western philosophy because they will lose face.

Learned nothing, nobody evolving. And it’s the same the world over

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Intelligent, cute..whatever. You must be a quite a person if you think that torturing a ‘family’ of wild dolphins for really no reason at all is comparable to controlled farming with improving killing methods.

I’m not saying that slaughterhouses are not necessarily inhumane. But NOBODY eats the dolphins. They are poisionous and the killing is pointless.

Sustainable fishing = selective fishing to ensure the future of the industry.

What benefits are there for the dolphin hunt and why does the Japanese government let it happen. Because they are corrupt.

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The point is that nobody or nothing is gaining from this besides the stubborn fisherman for $600 per dolphin. But they won’t change because they did it 400 years ago, so nobody is going to tell them that it is not ‘ok’ to do it now, even if you do pay them off. NO ONE wants to change! I am just going to live my perfect convienient life and die and pretend there was nothing wrong.

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wow

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not sure if allowed to say how i feel but i did.
had it with murderers of any nature and death penalties need to come back every wheres and even killing of protected animals same difference murder!

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OK, first, which part of the “stay focused on the big picture” is it you do not understand. Do you really think in this case I care where exactly giant jellyfish are coming from? They are there, that is what counts and why they are not being consumed like they should have been, that is what matters. Marine, air and land alike, have a very delicate ecological balance requirement that needs to be maintained, and it’s not. Humans in general have given themselves the right to capture, kill and/or slaugther just about anything just moves on land, sea and in the air in terms of animals. I can imagine that most people of the world think, well, as long as there is some kind of food available somewhere, it’s ok, who cares, let somebody else worry about that. And guess what, somebody else IS worrying about that and hopefully a lot more besides myself. The killing of the dolphins in Taiji is much more a moral problem then anything else. It’s the “big picture” killing that matters. I am really surprised that apparently none of you understand that part. You do not need to be a PhD to figure this out. There is awful lot of information available to validate my statements if one cares enough to read and hear about them and live your life with your eyes and ears open. I get most of my “facts” from reading multiple newspapers, magazines and of course Google. I am not the academic that saves every piece of paper, statements etc. so I can prove to anyone else that I know something and how smart I am. I have eyes, ears and a very well functioning memory bank in my head. I have also been a member for some time of the WSPA, HSUS/HSI, PETA, IFAW just to name a few to keep myself informed of all the happenings in the world. This has given me a very broad range of information and knowledge pertaining to ALL animals of the world and the way we treat, use and abuse them. Besides that, I also communicate, something I can’t say about some of you by simply making do by calling me and others a nut job and that’s it, must be the only two words they know? Ha!

Now helical, in answer to your questions:

As mentioned clearly, it is not just Japan, many times the international fishery departments have called out and made law the moratorium on how much we can all fish for not to deplete the oceans as that would mean total disaster, and very few countries are listening. Japan’s lawless practice is primarily the whale hunt for so-called scientific reasons, yeah, right. Like in the Solomon Islands it is primarily the indiscriminant dolphin hunt by providing dolphins for the dolphin abusement parks around the world. It takes about 10 dolphins on average to keep one that actually makes it to one of those dispicable parks, the other 9 usuallly die in the process. FACT! If dolphins could/would only breed in captivity a lot more, they could use the offspring. Still does not make it right though, they suffer just as hard. Placing a dolphin in an oversize bath tub for the rest of it’s now short life, is like putting a human in a phone booth for the rest of it’s life, or is that too hard to understand too?

You don’t understand the difference between land and marine food chains? Make me smart please. Where is the nearest to anywhere marine farm that breeds for consumption. 99% of all marine “fish” do not breed in captivity, period! There may be the 1% I really don’t know about, wow, stupid me!

How much can you see to count? Well, I would say, whatever occasionally sticks it’s head above the waterline. Good enough?

Useable by nature? OK, here we go. Since we are depleting a lot of mother nature’s ways to feed ourselves, wether that be home grown or taken from the wild makes no real difference. We are, at least of course in our modern western societies, over indulging ourselves in the way we prepare food. Eventhough I do not live in the USA nor Europe(anymore), oops, I let the secret out, I do find myself on and off in the USA.
If you go to the average restaurant, wether one is there for breakfast, lunch or dinner, the amount of food served is beyond reality, most can eat the entire day of each one of those servings, in other words, if I would take all three timed servings home, I could eat for 3 days, at least. But, that is quite often not how it works, the left over food gets disgarded in to the gabage bin in the back of the restaurant, nothing to do with plactics. Someone once said, in the USA by the way and no, I do not know the name anymore, that if the USA alone could somehow preserve the food that is being wasted, send to those countries literally dying for it, there would be no starvation, IN THE WORLD! I’m sure now you know where I’m going with this. Once the food, in whatever form is picked, caught, whatever, is prepared for consumption, you can not put it back where it came from for future use. Refrigeration only last so long and that is also not really the problem. The primary reason for this waste is the restaurants, hence the accusation, serve way too much food for the average person to eat at any one time. It may change now in these days of economic hardship. Less food or more doggie bags? Less food for less money is better, don’t you think?
Restaurants think they can advertise by providing value for money by means of loading you up until you either throw up or for you to become 300 lbs as well.
In a nut shell, point taken?

We’re out of control and out of balance with mother nature and I think it is high time we attempt to change that. We fish, we grow food mostly for the sake of making money, the more the better, not to preserve nature in such a fashion that this tiny world of ours can maintain doing so for the generations to come. Or should we simply ignore that little side effect and just think about ourselves. I am not a socialist, just social, as down the line, like it or not, we all somehow need each other in some form or another to make this work. GLOBALLY!

Time for lunch now. Later!

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And that is the strategy used by so many of these anti-whaling and anti-dolphin hunt activists.

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I’ll start off with asking which laws specifically have Japan broken in fishing around the world? (And don’t say “all of them”)

The giant jellyfish are mostly a problem on the Northwest side of Japan facing the Sea of Japan.
They’re born in the Yellow Sea or the Bohai sea (way inside China’s EEZ) and are carried by sea currents all the while growing until they reach enormous proportions by the time they clog and tear the Japanese fishermens’ nets.
Little study have been done on them (since they have little economic value), but most preliminary theories state that the recent explosion in numbers and size are a result of China overfishing their natural predators and dumping pollutants into the waters accompanying their rapid economic growth. But studies to back up these theories are lagging since China and Korea doesn’t really consider it to be a threat to themselves and a priority.

http://eco.nikkei.co.jp/column/yamane_kazuma/article.aspx?id=MMECp1040018122007&page=3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomura%27s_jellyfish

As a sidenote, all the lengthy handwaving about Japan being thoughtless and evil fishermen ransacking the world’s oceans, followed by a quick blurb about others doing it too at the very end is somewhat disingenuous IMHO.

I’m not sure I understand the difference between the role humans play in the land food chain and marine food chain. There are farms for both. And farming and domestication of animals doesn’t seem to play any role in altering the breeding habits of wild land animals either.

So your PhD marine biologist friend says that we can’t count what we can’t see. That seems reasonable. So how much can we see?

And what is your definition of “usable by nature”? Because, I thoght rats, stray cats dogs, and even humans were a part of nature too. Once those animals (though I’m not sure about the bum) die, then nature takes its course and breaks them down.
If you were talking about industrial products like plastics or chemicals, those are certainly the types of things that can’t be used by nature. I’d have thought biodegradables like restaurant garbage would have been the least of one’s worries.

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I am going to point out a few more items that will cause more insult to injury.

Besides the Taiji dolphin affair, there is a lot more going on in the Japanese waters and sadly in the rest of the world as well if we believe all the reports to date which should make us a lot more aware and realize why we need to preserve what little we have left, regardless of what we eat. We need to stay focused on the big picture.

Most of us know that the Japanese are the most vigorous fisherman in the world, aggressive and breaking just about every marine law ever written. It was briefly on the world news about a month ago. Every year a very large amount of giant jellyfish make their way in to the Japanese waters, these jellyfish are usually food for the big guys in the water such as sharks, marlins, sailfish and possibly even dolphins, not sure about dolpins as I am not a marine specialist but learning every day. This year however, almost none of the jellyfish have been consumed and are posing serious hardships to Japan. Why is that? Well, simple, the Japanese fisherman have virtually depleted the waters of predators as aforementioned. As a result, they now literally roam the global waters for more fish and what not to still their immeasureable desire for seafood, either to sell or consume. They sail around the world with their monster trawler nets collecting just about everything that moves in the free waters. Because trawlers are totally indiscriminate, 40 to 50% of all items caught, alive but mostly dead, gets thrown overboard including dolphins, turtles, sharks, seals etc. as that was not what they were fishing for that day. All marine mammals are dead by the time the net is being hauled in because they have drowned already. And not to put the blame on just Japan, they are most definitely not alone in doing this. Have no illusion.

There is one thing that has been seriously overlooked for a long time. Regardless of how cruel it is they way we breed farm animals for consumption, we have lost our moral beliefs of what is right and what is wrong but as a result of that, we sustain part of the food chain no matter how good or bad that may be. Now, with marine life, we can’t do that, we have absolutely no control over the breeding habits of marine “anything”! As a result of that, we also have no reliable data whatsoever of what is left in the waters worldwide, guestimates at best. One of the best PhD marine biologists with whom I am in contact has confirmed that piece of information. We can only count what we see, other than that, we are as blind as a bat.

The second insult to injury, also regardless of what we consume, is the fact that of all the products prepared for consupmtion that can not be given back to nature in a useable form, 40 to 50% of that ends up in the garbage can. Primarily restaurants are to blame for that part. All that is left to feed with that type of refuse are rodents, stray cats, dogs and of course homeless people. How noble.

No, Taiji alone is not going to make the dolpin endangered or extinct but just about everyone else combined is, wether that be a dolphin, marlin, shark, turtle, grouper, tuna………the list is very long and ugly. If it wasn’t for the few freshwater farms such as salmon and tilapia, there would be nothing left to catch there either.

The world is seriously out of control when it comes to our food chains. Has anyone seen the documentary on Discovery “Life After People”? Scary isn’t it how people come up with that kind of of idea. Fact or fiction?

If the oceans of the world are the first to go “dead” being two-thirds of the worlds total mass, what will happen? Do you think we the people can survive with oceans that stink and look like a sewer? All the farmed meat nor all agricultural products in the world are going to save us then.

Add global warming in the mix, we the peole of the world have a lot to think about of how we are going to sustain ourselves in the near furture. Being and staying positive on the matters will do the most amount of good like MJ’s famous words: If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make the change.

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many bred-for-slaughter animals don’t enjoy such conditions,

So you are against farming and killing cows,pigs etc.,aren’t you? They suffer more pains than dolphin.

if someone showed me that dolphin meat was a critical food staple of this community,

I am not sure it is a stable food or not, but I’m sure it occupies the important part of their economy.
That is why I said on another comment section that people protesting should provide the income Taiji people get for hunting and find them new job.

I am not entirely against the animal right activism.
There are controversy over who has right.
Do cows, for instance, have the right not to be killed?
Some people say intellectual creatures have it.
Others argue that sentient beings which have the ability to feel pain have it.(And there are many other criterion as well.)
But we don’t know for sure how much intellects cows,whales etc have. these issues cannot be settled with the certainty required for justice,

On the other hand, most people agree that we should not abuse our pet. Most people agree that we should not brutalize stray cats.The way we see animals has evolved.it is wrong to brutalize the animal unnecessarily.

So I understand the argument that we shouldn’t be cruel to the animal, it is better to kill animal less painfully, it is better not to kill the animals unnecessarily.

What I cannot understand is that only dolphin should be saved, the only Taiji should be blamed.
I cannot understand the government which blame Taiji while approving of killing cows and kangaroo for food.
I cannot understand the city of Broome which suspended the tie with Taiji while still holding the tie with Australian government.

Just as the police who arrest only Blacks look racist, the activists who blame dolphin hunter in Taiji only look racist.

And I feel it is unfair that journalism put up brutal photos of whales and dolphin when they report the animal activism while they just report irrational acts by animals right activists when it comes to other animals.

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Dolphin meat is not even a staple meat of the community doing the hunting, and the method used to obtain this meat is truly horrible.

Maybe I should just focus more on the suggestion that drive hunting be banned, and if the fishermen want to continue to hunt dolphin’s then they will have to rely on selective methods. Of course, that would make it much harder for them to obtain dolphins for the aquarium trade, which is what they make their money on.

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I don’t mind the hunting of wild animals for food, but again believe the methods need to be humane and the animal in question should have some value as a meat product. For example, if someone showed me that dolphin meat was a critical food staple of this community, and if the fishermen decided to move from the barbaric drive hunting method to a more humane selective hunting method, well, it would be much harder for me to argue against the practice (leaving me with the genuinely scary mercury argument, or the more widespread “they’re cute” argument).

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Stereo – I’m not against freedom, though I do believe that there are limits. I do welcome people who push against those limits, especially in the realm of the freedom of information. However, I don’t really see the dolphin issue as a case of denying one’s freedom.

Overthinker – Rationally discussing morals can be pretty hard, but is worth the hard effort to find a common ground. And I believe what we consider to be “cultural norms” are in fact the result of such compromise (resulting, as you said, from a mix of osmosis and directives from on high).

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While the people who actually make the world a better place; such as US marines killing terrorists, or geneticists developing strains of wheat that double crop yields, or engineers who invent products that give birth to multi-national corporations that give jobs to millions?

They are spat on by the left, because they expose just how meaningless thier protest marches and documentaries and blogs really are in the scheme of things. The hatred is understandable. Nobody likes being exposed as worthless.

The other true motive?
Protests are actually subconsciously motivated by raising awareness about oneself amongst the cute, rich, naive Granola chicks with big tits who conveniently don’t believe in marriage or “keeping my baby” in your co-op dorm at the university.
In later years, the motivation is to raise awareness of yourself amongst the cute, rich, naive Granola chicks with big tits who conveniently don’t believe in marriage or “keeping my baby” that attend your tax-funded lectures on American Imperialism at the university.

“But I’m not even in university and I protest!” you say?
Well then, what the hell is wrong with you?

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How deep does the willful ignorance go?
Before the invention of cultivation and farming, what the heck did humans eat? If anything, humans “became accustomed” to eating carbohydrates, bread, pasta, rice. And in theory, the increase in diabetes and obesity is the result of going against our evolution and/or design. And a real treatment option for diabetes and obesity? An all meat and vegetabgle diet!!!!

What does the vegan left think about the Atkins diet?

We were hunter gatherers. And unless your tribe happened to live near a conveniently available year-round combo of necessary proteins (a bean field and a rice paddy next to each other that also produced year-round output?) your tribe died of malnutrition.

Yup, the far left and the far right have a lot in common. The right thinks we didn’t evolve from monkeys. The left thinks we still are monkeys. Both ignore the overwhelming evidence and prefer thier religion (be it god or gaia).

Should I also throw in the study that showed vegans suffer from reduced brain capacity?
Nah, there’s already plenty of evidence here.

“I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants.” Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey

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http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

I do hope that more people in the world realize that cruel hunting and slaughtering is not a way to obtain healthy food.

Ironically, if we would oppose animals naturally, the way animals can only oppose to us if they would only want to, who would win?

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My main issue is this as we are dicussing primarily as to why the Japanese catch dolphins for consumption and we do the same with cows, pigs, goats and what not, hence the resentment of the Japanese. All warm blooded creatures including humans produce and release high amounts of toxins when under duress, such as knowing you are going to be killed in the next 10 minutes, pigs in particular know this very well as the pig among all other animals is actually one the most if not “the” most intelligent land mammal on earth. Humans release similar toxins who suffer from say exam fear and they literally get sick to their stomach, head aches and what not and lots of them end up in bed for a good few days. Now, since humans are NOT going to be killed in the next 10 minutes for that reason, we are given time to heal and will get better. Slaughter animals do not have that luxury and all those toxins remain in their system until it ends up on your plate. One would have to cook the “dying daylights” out of it to reduce these toxins so hopefully it won’t kill us the long run. Downed cows in particular that were still used for consumption to feed a variety of school lunch programs. You may know all that beef was recalled in fear of toxic meat. I know the FDA has a certain allowance for toxidity in meats so I guess that makes it alright, right?

Everybody has a right to eat what they want whatever is available on the supermarket shelves as street killing for food is illegal except in certain countries we all know about.

It is not the intent to upset anybody, merely to show the other side of warm blooded meat in this case and have a healthy dialog about it. It is perfectly fine if anyone does not agree with my assessment. It’s your body and you can do whatever you want with it.

Peace to the world!

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Did not think I had to explain this but there you go.

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What is this? Suicide by arsenic or something?

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You can’t just come out and make claims regarding the validity of an argument: you need to show why you think you are right. Eating is a private and personal thing that only concerns you, very unlike slavery, which by its very nature concerns at least two. So why is my neighbour not allowed to eat dog? As long he doesn’t affect me, does my indignation over dog eating give me the right to demand he stop? Even if everyone on my street agrees? Enter the clash between “community standards” and privacy/freedom.

And about the only thing I can think of that society has deemed not accceptable is humans (barring specific cultural practices that are largely extinct). You name it, and someone eats it. Probably the Chinese. Then we get into the issue of something being acceptable to one society but not another, which is fine when they are isolated, but does this apply when they begin to merge like in our modern world? What society deems acceptable is also in flux, and each change begins somewhere. Some Frenchman had to eat that first snail….

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Stereo – the problem with freedom is when your freedom encroaches on my freedom. Whose freedom takes precedence?

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Our teeth are designed to handle a variety of food, including meat. Our canines are designed for tearing, an important part of meat ingestion.

Also, stomachs do not carry out the main processes of digestion. They churn food into a paste, which is then digested mostly in the intestine. The intestine can and is designed to be able to digest meat. It takes a while for any food, not just meat, to be digested.

If we were truly “designed” to be herbivores, we probably wouldn’t be able to easily chew or digest meat at all-it would make us horribly sick.

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The people having those reactions may eat meat, but they may also be concerned about the living conditions of those animals and buy meat products from more ethically grown and slaughtered animals. Even if the people having those reactions eat at McDonald’s, their point of view is still valid and may be a step in another direction in which they do think about what they’re eating.

Flaming those people won’t change anything.

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No thanks.

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You obviously have no clue anymore at to what this forum is all about in this particular case but most certainly it is not about you or me, try to understand that please!

But FYI, there is nothing that green nature can not provide in terms of nutrition. You may like meat but you do not need it.

Dr. Deepak Chopra (if you know who that is of course) explaines in one of his publications called “Perfect Digestion” why a hamburger for instance, is one solid pound of death!

I am not going to explain this to you in this forum. Buy the book yourself.

You take it from here…………

Over and out!

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we evolved over time to “manage” these types of groceries and have acquired a taste for meat.

Well then, problem solved, no?

You can personally believe whatever you want and practice veganism, but since meat is a most convenient source of vital nutrients, a potent energy source, and quite tasty, I will stick with what my biology allows me to consume.

You keep on mentioning the word “meant” or “designed” as if there were an intent or an instruction manual out there that spells out proper usage of the human body. I won’t get into a discussion involving Darwin, but if you’re gleaning such proper procedures from our biology, why not go all the way?

Do you know a thing called fire? A look at our skin shows that we are obviously unsuited for handling such phenomenon of high temperature. It causes burns and takes many days to heal if we are exposed to it. There are many people who burn to death around the world. This is evidence that we should not handle fire and avoid it at all costs. So no heating for you.

Our puny body hair obviously means we were not meant to live in any place colder than tropic areas where we wouldn’t freeze to death in the night or winter seasons. If you give up your clothes and live on the Savannah, I’m sure all the hapless trees cut down to make your nice house and the cotton plants used in weaving your clothes would give you a big THANK YOU too!

And so on.

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Your definition of brutality and mine obviously differ considerably. Let me take a page out of your book and give this a try. Not only is the wild dolphin hunt clearly less brutal than any example one can provide of the methods used to kill animals bred for slaughter, but I am having a hard time thinking of any hunting of wild animals that is less cruel. Convincing argument, no?

Anyway, if “the majority of society (including Japanese society) these days” cares so much about the way in which these animals are killed, Japanese society is curiously silent about it. Now, off to the dog fights!

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Giving up meat is also a lot easier than say given up smoking or alcohol, trust me, I know!

All animal mammals will give you a big THANK YOU if you did!!

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So you deny freedom.
Why do you categorically deny freedom?

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Your comment is right on target.

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I mean, it would be a damn shame if most of this controversially harvested high quality meat ended up only benefiting dogs.

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I never had any problem with the “dog food” industry in Korea. After all, they are bred for slaughter in the same fashion that cows or pigs are. Both animal rights activists and red meat enthusiasts need to appreciate that there is a difference between “bred-for-slaughter” animals and wild animals.

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And while you might not care about what is killed or how it is killed, the majority of society (including Japanese society) these days does. While PETA and the like might be extremists, the notion of animal rights has become standard fare and most people expect animals to be treated in a humane fashion, even those that are to be killed for food.

By the way, Mike, is your last name Vick?

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