Taiji dolphin hunt begins: about 100 dolphins and 50 pilot whales driven into cove
So much for the claims that “The Cove” has halted Japan’s dolphin hunt.
Nikkan Sports reports that weather conditions have improved in Taiji and the town’s fishermen have finally begun their dolphin hunt.
Thirteen fishing boats left Taiji’s harbor this morning around 5:30AM. They located a large group of dolphins and pilot whales, which they promptly surrounded and drove them into a cove. The captured group consists of about 50 pilot whales and 100 bottlenose dolphins. The International Whaling Commission’s ban on whaling does not include bottlenose dolphins or pilot whales. Neither species is classified as endangered.
During this hunting season, Taiji’s fisherman plan to catch about 2400 dolphins.
Update: The Sankei is reporting that 10 dolphins will be captured and sold to aquariums, and that the rest will apparently be returned to the sea. The pilot whales will be sold (for meat?).
Update 2: Mainichi and the Japan Times report that 40 to 50 of the 100 dolphins will be captured to be sold to aquariums, while the rest will be freed. The move is in response to international criticism of the dolphin hunt, but it is not clear whether or not this is something that will last the whole hunting season. The fishermen will slaughter the pilot whales, something that will no doubt anger some activists. The Japan Times reports that this year there will be a cull of “240 dolphins and whales,” which I can only assume is a translation error. Mainichi has the figure at 2317, close to the “about 2400″ reported by the Sankei. Last year, the fishermen caught 1484 dolphins and whales. [Hat tip to the Overthinker]
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Oh well so much for those who were claiming victory. While I find the slaughter of dolphins quite distasteful, who am I to judge as they are not endangered, and people around the world kill and eat animals in equally distasteful ways, dogs, apes, seals, etc.
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In other words, there’s no point criticising cruelty, because other forms of cruelty exist too. Net result: cruelty persists, but you’re ok because your politically correct cultural sensitivity kudos is intact- and that’s all that matters.
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If only all people were smart enough to see things like you.. unfortunately 95% are not.
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I believe the point is: It is hypocrisy to attack the Japanese for cruelly slaughtering dolphins for food while tolerating the slaughter of other cute and smart animals (pigs, cows, etc.) in one’s own country.
Most of the people so angry about the dolphin slaughter eat bacon and hamburgers every day, not realizing or not caring that people from other cultures might find the slaughter of pigs and cows to be barbaric and cruel.
This is not a problem for the creators of The Cove. Ric O’Barry and his friends are vegetarians and vegans. They are fighting their battle against eating meat one type of animal at a time.
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This is not a problem for the creators of The Cove. Ric O’Barry and his friends are vegetarians and vegans.
That is, when you think killing vegetables is okay but not animals. Some think that’s hypocritic too.
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I normally to refer to such absurdity as the ’screaming lettuce’ argument. It’s the last refuge for people who’ve run out of sensible things to say.
Since I’m veggie I can’t really speak for meat-eaters who are anti-whaling and anti-dolphin slaughter. However, I regard a single step in the right direction as infinitely better than doing absolutely nothing and citing other people’s perceived ‘hypocrisy’ as an excuse.
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“They are fighting their battle against eating meat one type of animal at a time.”
Okay, definitely not a good idea to give in to them then. Next I’ll have to live on tofu burgers and cabbage.
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So an animal needs to be endangered before we protect it?
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If you believe that the point of conservation is to conserve biodiversity (e.g. species, rather than individual members of a species), then yes.
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Unfortunately many endangered species get little but lip service in the way of protection; Africa is slaughtering their rhinos at an unprecedented rate, and they’ve been protected by CITES. Reality is few are taking dynamic steps to protect the animals, one reason why those taking brave and what will be seen at first as controversial steps need to be applauded ..
It’s very apparent to me our animals need warriors more than “nice” peaceful passivist lip service providers.
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Your argument would have more weight if you said Africans were killing gnu at an unprecedented rate. Dolphins are not endangered.
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Just who is declaring victory too early here?
There is a report by Yuri Kageyama posted on the Huffington Post September 10 that says some of the dolphins caught on Wednesday will be sold to aquariums, but the rest of them will be set free rather than slaughtered–the decision being made partly in response to the international outcry created by The Cove.
I find it hypocritical of people who eat beef and pork to decry the consumption of wild animals that are not endangered, but I also find the “I wanna chomp down on a nice juicy flipper burger” kind of response cruel and unnecessary.
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It’s not just the slaughtering that is heart wrenching to see, and that goes with any animal that is rounded up, throat sliced, and die a slow painful death. It’s about the lust for money which causes the dolphins to be sold as a higher grade whale meat that poisons humans with mercury. If cows,pigs, and other animals meat poisoned us then that would be just as bad. Also I don’t think it’s wrong to make a profit, but deceiving people to make make millions of dollars and feed our people high amounts of mercury really makes me hope that Jehovah God will soon step in and put an end to this system of things.
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Yes that is true, which is why we need all those different activists to help all the animals we should not be eating or keeping in captivity. If no one was helping the dolphins now, who says they won’t become endangered eventually? Also, dolphin meat should not be eaten due to high levels of mercury (which have killed so many people in the 50s and 60s), so why kill them?
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Where’s Ric O’Barry?
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My Grandma makes an awesome dolphin burger!
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The International Whaling Commission’s ban on whaling does not include bottlenose dolphins or pilot whales. Neither species is classified as endangered.
No ban
Not endangered=
No problem
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Are you endangered?, do you taste good? = no problem.
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So I guess you’re saying we can’t kill any animals, right?
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I think you’re conveniently ignoring the ban on killing people.
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Ban on killing people?, many countries inc. some states in the US do that legally with the law in hand, sooo…. Kiling animals; I must admit that I like pork and a good glass of beer, but still, the dolphin hunt is hard to watch, can’t they kill some stupid tunafish instead?….
he he…
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so you r saying its ok to kill people then…
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Soylent Green is the way of the future
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I hope people stop heckling these fisherman. That is their livelihood and they aren’t breaking any laws, so leave them alone.
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Livlihood?
They say it’s a form of “pest control”
It would have struck a core within you if you had watched the movie.
The blame dolphins and whales for the sharp decline in fishes.
Humans are the pest here. The ocean is depleting coz of man.
Aren’t they choosing the wrong target for “pest control”?
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Japan’s people mostly don’t even know they are eating dolphin! It is falsly sold as high priced meat in grocery stores with no indication that the packaging is dolphin meat. Watch the documentary “The Cove” and you will understand.
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It was on Chinese media yesterday with all pictures. I have been to slaughter houses, but this was more brutal. I wonder why they still go on with all media attention.
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Slaughtering Houses = Demolition?
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Very sad indeed. There’s lot more we don’t understand about Dolphins. They are used in Autistic kids with positive reports. When they put autistic child into dolphin pool, dolphins stop splashing water and became really kind. They understand the difference. There are kids that have never talked or smiled before, after meeting dolphins said their first words and smiled at the first time. Isn’t this incredible? Do they deserve mindless slaughter?
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damn, I don’t know which way I should go with this.
Should I point out that dolphin therapy is a scam, and that It’s been shown to be useless in treatment, with a high level of risk of injury to the child?
Or should I point out that the dolphin hunt at Taiji actually supplies dolphins to places that conduct Dolphin Assisted Therapy (outside of the US)?
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“Do they deserve mindless slaughter?”
Do you mean the autistic kids or the dolphins?
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Cool anecdotal story, with absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand.
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What? Those Dolphin lovers were wrong that the hunt was stopped?
Mother Nature sure is funny like that!!
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I guess people don’t want to eat whales and dolphins because they are more intelligent than they are.
Or maybe it’s the fact that dolphins look like they’re smiling. But remember; they still smile when injuring autistic kids. Think about that one.
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Ric O’Barry is in France to assure the promotion of The Cove.
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Here’s a proposal that’s been tried (and usually ignored) in similar cases.
Use all the proceeds from The Cove, or just flat out take donations to pay the fishermen of Taiji not to kill dolphins. Give them exactly the same amount of money as they would have made selling dolphin meat.
Just like some environmental groups that BUY wetlands and such, in order to prevent development. Perfectly legal. Perfectly good solution. Everyone’s happy. But the libs have to spend their OWN money, rather than everyone else’s. Hurts their pocketbooks more than using political/legal means to deprive people of their property or livelihood without compensation.
So, it doesn’t really catch on. No shock there.
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So one could either go out and continue to carry on a proud tradition of 400 years, or listen to a bunch of preachy foreigners who think they know better and think you’re morally inferior, and throw away that prized tradition, to achieve the same end result.
Hmm, why do I have the feeling your idea isn’t going to work …
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I’d love to see the activists buy the whales and set up habitats for them somewhere in a place that’s off-limits to hunters.
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You mean like an Antarctic whale sanctuary? Oh that’s right, the Japanese still go kill them there….
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The Antarctic whale sanctuary? Are you referring to the one unilaterally declared by Australia? It doesn’t have international recognition and Australia has made no serious effort to enforce their claim.
By the way, we’re still waiting for you to answer the question somebody asked you in the previous Taiji thread:
What animals are acceptable food sources? Please give us your list of animals that can be slaughtered and eaten.
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Anything at your level of intelligence or below should be fine. The dolphins and whales, however, should be fine on that scale.
I answered that in the thread. Go back and read it.
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So you support the hunting of Minke Whales, a species that, in the words of Australian environmentalist Tim Flannery, is “closer in intelligence to that of sheep”?
I didn’t see you give a list of animals in the last thread. You just made vague comments about dolphins not being “food animals.” Do you think pigs can be food animals? How about dogs?
Also, please give us a link to scientific studies that prove dolphins and whales are more intelligent than humans. If you want to hold the belief that dolphins and whales are superior to most humans, you should have some evidence to back up your view.
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Inuits also had the tradition of killing off their ill and elderly that weren’t strong enough to keep up with the tribe.
There is a tradition of female genital mutilation in some parts of Africa.
As recently as a century ago, it was traditional to “allow” (read: force) people who had been defeated in battles to commit seppuku in Japan.
Just because it’s a tradition – even if it’s given the completely subjective prefix of “proud” – doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
Also Level3, your idea won’t work, for the same reason that animal rights groups no longer buy ‘dancing’ bears from circuses in Asia – the people who they buy them from see it as a massive cash-cow and go out to capture more bears.
Legislation and fixing underlying problems like failing industry is what will fix this issue.
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What same end result? They’re diametrically opposite. Tradition and and en empty sack is worth the sack. Money talks, so let them try. But yeah, using their own money would hurt the protesters…
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I meant for the Taiji fishermen.
If they get the same amount of money in the end as the dolphin sales through conservationalist payment, would it be viewed as a negative thing as in abandoning tradition and caving to foreign pressure or a positive thing for getting something for nothing?
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Well, the answer is simple: pay them more than they would get from fishing. And I think the something for nothing would win out easily. Think of all those farmers that are paid not to grow rice.
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OK, I guess that might work if they were paid more, but then again, all the emotional and irrational protests have already made this into quite an inflammatory issue.
All the previous protests have probably established the picture of self-righteous foreigners trying to force their values down the collective throat of the Japanese, so even if conservationalist groups were to change tactics and try to compensate the fishermen for not hunting dolphins, it’s going to take quite an effort to overcome the suspicious, pride, and prejudice that has likely already taken root in the town of Taiji.
But then, I’m not one of them so I can’t speak for them. Maybe they will readily embrace the payment with open arms.
But at least I can speculate with some confidence that it’s going to kick up a shitstorm with angry conservative netizens if they get wind that such an effort were being made…
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They have tried that, it even states it in the movie. They offered the fishermen the same amount not to go out and they refused.
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Well,
Ric o barry tried tat.
They considered, and said it’s not a question about money, it’s about “pest control”. So they wun stop.
It’s abt their warped national pride.
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Jeez some of the comments here are so egotistic I find myself wondering what goes through some peoples minds. Do they simply choose to ignore the feelings & pain of other species therefor making life more simple for themselves or do they actually enjoy the pain and suffering of other species, reading the comments I think we have both sides of the spectrum happening and that worries me! The fact that these people are actually normal everyday men and women in all walks of life. Just like we could be sitting next to pedophiles in every day situations, I find it equally disturbing to think I and my loved ones could be mixing with people in everyday life who have this ignorant or violent mindset. NEWSFLASH, its not all about you or us since there are other species on the planet that do feel pain amongst a wide range of emotions!!!!!
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Look, folks, there HAS to be a middle ground. My problem is that these are mammals, gentle, peaceful, and not aggressive usually.
Yes, I know cows are the same, so I’m not a hypocrite. Right now, I’m trying to go total vegan, but in the meantime eating dairy and eggs, and occasional fish. So I’m not on my high horse.
HOWEVER that being said, why not take all these beautiful animals and let them be assistance animals to the autistic, retarded, down syndrome, and physically handicapped children of our world?
ANYTHING is possible! Why don’t they take up a collection from world wide animal peace lovers that we pay off the dolphin hunterss?
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Yeah! I was just thinking that a dolphin for the “retarded” program would be great! This is awesome!
Amy, you’re awesome and your post has made my day!
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I actually came back to recomment on my comment because Amy is so freaking awesome. Amy, will you marry me?
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“why not take all these beautiful animals…”
Would it be okay to kill ugly ones then?
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Nobody seems to have pointed out yet that they’re selling the slaughtered dolphin meat to the general public, despite the high levels of toxins – especially mercury.
Never mind the fact that you neanderthals seem to be ignoring the cruel way that the animals are being slaughtered (which is very different to the controlled environment that happens in abbatoirs) – do you really want this to happen again?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease
They’re overfishing those waters anyway. The best way to protect their livelihoods isn’t slaughtering the natural predators of fish, it’s to stabilise and make sustainable their fishing industry.
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The mercury issue is discussed so many times in Japanprobe alone, like
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=12424
(1) The government says it is safe to eat limited amount of dolphin meat.
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/bukyoku/iyaku/syoku-anzen/suigin/dl/051102-1en.pdf
(2) The people who eat dolphin meat eat it at their own risk. Animal rights activists have no right to dictate what to eat and what not to eat.
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It makes me sad to read the ramblings of so many ignorant people on here. The mentality that if something is not endangered or since it is part of a culture it is acceptable to kill them is a dangerous mentality at best. Look up the stats for annual extinction rates of species in the world. Some estimates put the extinction rates in Hawaii and other tropical environments since the introduction of humans as high as 30,000 per year. Just look what we did to the Eastern Elk, Plains Bison, Grey Wolves, Southern Whales, Blue Whales; the list goes on and on.
If we don’t wake up and recognize the importance of sustainability and eco-friendly living we will eventually be the cause of our own demise. So laugh it up knuckleheads because you are part of the problem. And thanks to your mentality your children and your grandchildren will not see many of the species that still exist today.
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So, by your logic, oops, I mean feelings, it is also unacceptable to kill any animals at all for food?
You said “…mentality that if something is not endangered or since it is part of a culture it is acceptable to kill them is a dangerous mentality at best.”
Your standard means that people who eat any form of meat at all, even fish, have a “dangerous mentality”
So, are you a vegan, or a hypocrite?
Please think before your type…or vote.
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Rich,I agree with you 100%
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See? They’re evil from start to finish. They outright lie and say “Oh, sorry, we’re not gonna do it because weather’s too bad, try back next year…” and then as soon as they get the media off their back “Let’s keel us some dolphins, boys!”
It’s just despicable to do something so underhanded while saying “We’re not doing anything wrong.” I’ll give you a hint: If you don’t want anyone to see what you’re doing, you’re probably doing something you shouldn’t be doing.
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lol, so you’re trying to take credit for the weather now.
According to the news reports, the fishermen were delaying the hunt because of rough weather, and now have taken to the seas once it has calmed down. Though they likely wouldn’t admit to the pressure of protesters having any part in the decision even if it did, neither is there any evidence that it actually did. How do you know they were lying about the weather?
Just seems like all the protesters were too eager to claim victory and take credit when it didn’t start as scheduled, pack up and leave, and then get all angry when the hunt (which was never declared as being canceled) resumes after the weather calms down.
I can only laugh when people start branding people as being “evil” or “underhanded” when things don’t go according to their own uninformed assumptions.
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I’d say cops and crowds are pretty good evidence of the protesters having an effect.
Also “lol, so you’re trying to take credit for the weather now” makes no sense. I didn’t say anything of the sort.
The timing is far too convenient for it to be a coincidence. They stop hunting “because of weather” when they get negative attention, and even claim they’re not going to hunt because of this. The day media attention wanes, they go back to slaughtering intelligent social sea creatures in secret. God forbid someone should actually see what they are doing.
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Well of course cops and concerned crowds are going to be there! The Cove already demonstrated that foreigners showing up with an agenda will not just wave signs and shout words of protest which is bad enough, but break into restricted areas and make life difficult for them with all sorts of disruptive antics. It’s certainly not illegal for the visitors to be there, but that doesn’t mean the townsfolk would have any reason to not keep an eye on them.
I apologize if my grammar was a little misleading.
You (as in the whole bunch that thinks the protesters just being there halted the hunts) are trying to believe that the “weather” and “rough seas” were nothing more than an excuse to wait until the meddlers leave. So then you believe it wasn’t any high waves that stopped them but it was the sudden appearance of crusading foreigners that did the job.
Here’s this from last week:
Taiji dolphin hunt halted because of The Cove’?
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=12414
I did a bit of googling to actually find hard data about the weather.
I wasn’t able to find any comprehensive data on wave height, but I did find hourly wind speed measurements from Shionomisaki, which is the tip of the peninsula about 20-30 km away from Taiji Town.
Past weather records for September for the Wakayama prefecture.
http://tenki.jp/past/pref-33.html
For each page showing data for that day, you’ll need to set the pull-down menu to “潮岬” (Shionomisaki).
You can see that starting from 9/2 (dolphin season started on 9/1), the wind speed stays within the 4 to 8 m/s range for more than a week, rarely falling below 5 m/s and staying close to 6 m/s. Then lo and behold, on the early morning of 9/9 when it’s reported that the hunt was resumed because the weather conditions have improved, the wind is recorded to have died down and never goes about 4 m/s for the rest of the day.
Now I don’t know exactly how dangerous 6-7 m/s winds are to fishermen on boats with harpoons engaged in vigorous physical activity, but I think it’s safe to say that it’d be cause for more concern than 1-4 m/s winds.
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This community is using whaling and dolphin slaughter to justify their LACK of knowing HOW to do anything else and trafficking the dolphins to WATER PARKS.
Today is a DIFFERENT WORLD where the oceans are dying and the animals in it are toxic and endangered.
This is a crime against all the COUNTRIES.
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Ohhhhhhhh, noooooooooooo! I am in utter despair.
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It is my cultural belief that eating any animal besides dolphins is despicable, evil, and morally wrong. Stop offending my culture or I will go to your country and heckle your villages while spreading racist propaganda on the internet!
How would you like it if you were eaten and weren’t a dolphin? All animals except dolphins are intelligent creatures and you don’t have the right to eat them! Stop it right now! Or else!
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Stupid troll is stupid.
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No he’s not. He’s right.
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This disgusts me …… and the Japanese Government disgusts me even more ….. they have been exposed, why does the government not stop this?????? I now have very little regard for Japan, I thought they were a lot smarter than this!!!!!!
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Why should they?
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Nobody has been exposed. The dolphin hunt in Taiji is public knowledge. Anybody can go on Wikipedia and find out about it.
So go ahead and have little regard for Japan. If you can’t tell the difference between the actions of only 26 people, and a nation of 127 million, then that is your problem.
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As distasteful as I find the idea of slaughtering thousands of dolphins and whales, probably because of their being intelligent and positively portrayed by media, I can’t really disagree with these people. I mean, I’d like to, and I’d like to tell them to change their method of making money.
On the other hand, it doesn’t seem all that much different from what cattle ranchers do, and do more frequently, and I don’t have a problem with that because I love to eat beef.
So, in the end maybe it’s just about cultural differences.
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Wow…..this sums up my thoughts perfectly.
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wat?
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If it is culture and tradition because the Japanese are hiding and block access to and the filming and photo ?
On Japanese TV every tiny detail of Japanese life is shown… but not this kind of documentary. Why not?
It’s very clear that this activity is CRIMINAL, trafficking and killing dolphins for WATER PARK. That’s MAFIA, the same MAFIA that kills whales for “scientific” purposes in the Antartic Sanctuary, “scientific” or SUPERMARKET ?
Dolphins & whales are being killed at rates faster than they can reproduce & slaughtered in illegal ways that. The nature takes 10 years to produce a dolphin.
This is a great shame to happen in the 21st century.
Japan – hang your head in shame!
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“but not this kind of documentary. Why not?”
While you seem to have already made up your mind about why not, and I doubt anything I can say will change it, have you considered that the fanatical anger of people like yourself is the reason – to try and minimize the storm of public anger that would be whipped up by PETA and Friends of the Earth and World Dolphin Lovers and whatever? Mountains would be created out of molehills and lies and distortions would take the place of truth and RANDOM words all in CAPITALS would be used to TRY and make THE argument more forceful.
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You posted almost exactly the same thing here at 2009-09-05 00:40:01 : http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=12414
Got spam?
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I absolutely agree that I think it’s wrong what they are doing to the dolphins, just cruel and unnessary… but we can compare this to the killing of many other animals because this is done here as well. Watch “Food Inc.” it’s pretty similar but with farm animals. Very discusting but informative. In the end, I don’t think eating meat is wrong (food chain), it’s the WAY it’s done, the way they are killed…etc…
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Are all the commentators here bought and paid for by the Dolphin Killing industry? How could so many people be so cruel to laugh at this bloody murder. This is such a disgrace to the entire human race.
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How about Cow Killing industry? Should we eliminate that industry too?
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What’s with all the “I don’t like it, but it’s not my culture so it’s okay” crap? Moral relativism is simply intellectual cowardice in my book.
In addition, the suggestion that a person’s opinion has no value on the basis of where they come from, or to suggest that individuals from different cultures will have incompatible value systems that can’t be reconciled, is not as culturally or racially sensitive a notion as it might first appear.
Except for people mentioning the fishermen’s need to earn a living, I have yet to hear a good reason in favour of hunting dolphins and remain curious if there is any good reason for the hunt to exist.
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“Moral relativism is simply intellectual cowardice in my book.”
Great. So does that mean I can force you to accept my absolute morals?
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No, it means that we can be honest about our moral viewpoints and attempt to find a moral consensus, rather than making an argument that basically boils down to “let’s avoid the hard work of compromise and do nothing”. I don’t have much liking for absolute morality either, as it tends to be short-sighted and inflexible.
Dictating how people should behave isn’t smart, but saying that everyone should be able to just do their thing isn’t a functional response either. The best path is a rational response that involves honest discussion and compromise.
So, to begin such a discussion, what are the positives of the dolphin hunt Overthinker?
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I would say the positives of the dolphin hunt are the same positives of killing cows, pigs,lambs etc.
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Huh, I never realized that dolphins were such a tasty and nutritious source of protein and amino acids. I guess this is a secret only the Japanese are aware of, which is why such meat is properly labeled and sold by the crate full to Japanese customers, rather than put into locally sold dog food.
I mean, it would be a damn shame if most of this controversially harvested high quality meat ended up only benefiting dogs.
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tomservo
Sorry, I don’t understand your argument.
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“everyone should be able to just do their thing isn’t a functional response either.”
So you deny freedom.
Why do you categorically deny freedom?
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I don’t have any overly strong feelings re the dolphin hunt either way – I find the reactions of people here far more interesting. But a rational path for compromise for morals, while it is admirably calm, is tricky: morals are often not rational, but things we have been trained into considering with an almost visceral reaction. Morals can be imposed by force from on high, like religious ones, or they can be a slow osmosis of cultural colonization, but I wonder if a compromise is all that common….
Stereo – the problem with freedom is when your freedom encroaches on my freedom. Whose freedom takes precedence?
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Sorry ponta pon, my last bit wasn’t so much an argument as sarcasm. I just don’t see much reason in the red meaters’ declaration that “if it breathes and isn’t human, I can eat it”. If the fishermen used a form of selective hunting, and if the majority of dolphin meat didn’t end up in Japanese dog food, I could see more reason in those arguments that defend the hunt.
Stereo – I’m not against freedom, though I do believe that there are limits. I do welcome people who push against those limits, especially in the realm of the freedom of information. However, I don’t really see the dolphin issue as a case of denying one’s freedom.
Overthinker – Rationally discussing morals can be pretty hard, but is worth the hard effort to find a common ground. And I believe what we consider to be “cultural norms” are in fact the result of such compromise (resulting, as you said, from a mix of osmosis and directives from on high).
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It is, of course, about FREEDOM. People have freedom of choice of food and no one can dictate what others should eat or what others should not eat.
You can eat whatever you want as long as it does not infringe someone else’s rights. So, let them eat dolphins as long as it does not infringe your rights.
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Well, that libertine value system only works in the wild. In the civilized world, people are only free to eat (or, frankly, do) what society has determined is acceptable. Yeah, I know. It just sucks to have to deal with other members of humanity and their fun-killing rules and ethics.
I should also point out that going all William Wallace-y on this issue is a bit hyperbolic, and is about as intelligent an argument as the one that equates the suffering of the dolphins with slavery.
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“a bit hyperbolic, and is about as intelligent an argument”
You can’t just come out and make claims regarding the validity of an argument: you need to show why you think you are right. Eating is a private and personal thing that only concerns you, very unlike slavery, which by its very nature concerns at least two. So why is my neighbour not allowed to eat dog? As long he doesn’t affect me, does my indignation over dog eating give me the right to demand he stop? Even if everyone on my street agrees? Enter the clash between “community standards” and privacy/freedom.
And about the only thing I can think of that society has deemed not accceptable is humans (barring specific cultural practices that are largely extinct). You name it, and someone eats it. Probably the Chinese. Then we get into the issue of something being acceptable to one society but not another, which is fine when they are isolated, but does this apply when they begin to merge like in our modern world? What society deems acceptable is also in flux, and each change begins somewhere. Some Frenchman had to eat that first snail….
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In terms of the ‘freedom” argument, it is something better to more important issues like freedom of information or democratic choice or sexual choice. If this was a case of attempting to ban all consumption of meat (and I don’t deny that this is a goal of many animal rights activists), then I could understand more readily the call to arms.
Dolphin meat is not even a staple meat of the community doing the hunting, and the method used to obtain this meat is truly horrible.
Maybe I should just focus more on the suggestion that drive hunting be banned, and if the fishermen want to continue to hunt dolphin’s then they will have to rely on selective methods. Of course, that would make it much harder for them to obtain dolphins for the aquarium trade, which is what they make their money on.
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Nice!
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It’s a shame that the Slaughter continued. I guess they’ll have to find a new sister city! O wells
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It seems Mercury poisoning has really taken over the Japanese brain functions, the simply don’t know any better anymore.
Fried dolphin = Fried brain.
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It’s obvious there is no scientific basis for stopping this activity. The objections seem to change every day and none of the reasoning behind any of them is clear.
Some people think dolphins are special…or cute…or almost human. Too much anthropomorphizing going on here. This isn’t about the mercury content of dolphin or protecting the environment.
It’s about cute animals getting harvested for food. I hope the protesters never get a look at a baby Angus calf…they are super adorable.
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It’s more than just cute. They ARE remarkable as far as animal intelligence and social function. They have advanced communication, and are extremely friendly. This friendliness is a large contributor to why they’re so easy to hunt – they trust and are interested in humans.
This is really the only reason I see to stop hunting, but one that people should have moral decency to recognize. Killing animals just for the sake of killing them is one of the primary indicators of psychopathy.
The japanese don’t NEED these for food, they’re even toxic. They’re not studying them or doing scientific research, they’re just killing them for fun and profit.
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They are more than just CUTE. They ARE tasty. The JAPANESE ARE obviously ONLY abusing friendly CREATURES. Also, CAPS LOCK FURY!!!
Listen, I’ve read most of the posts you’ve written in response to the several articles posted on Japan Probe regarding the Taiji Dolphin hunt. At no point have you offered anything other than your opinion. Well, that’s not precisely true…you did back up your assertions with ALL CAPS, which I suppose makes it more persuasive? Despite that, at some point you may come to accept the fact that many disagree with you and that (shock) their opinions hold equal weight on this matter…which is none whatsoever.
I’m assuming you’re not a vegetarian based on your earlier comments about “food animals” (still waiting for that list!) Have you been to a slaughterhouse? Have you ever hunted or skinned an animal before? Have you ever stopped to consider that something other than “death by natural causes” brought food to your plate? I’m obviously not going to persuade you to react any differently to this, but you may want to at least consider how you would react if someone came to your town and protested something you ate.
“But but but…Dolphins are the smartest and the Japanese don’t needs to eat them!” you’ll cry. To which I’d respond, “so what?” Few, if any, specific foods are needed by anyone. As much as you would love for your moral qualms over hunting dolphins to dictate how another culture should act, they don’t (barring an assault by your elite Eco-Crusader Strike Team Alpha GO!)
Do some research, come back with some sort of documentary evidence that this hunt will irreparably harm the species or poses an immediate health risk to those that choose to eat it. Basically, come back with something other than your opinion on the matter. Until you do, you may want to consider not retyping the same tired set of baseless assertions you’ve been hammering out over the past several days…or do, it’s entertaining at the very least.
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Well said. It’s amazing how people seem to stir such racist hatred over some sea creatures, while ignoring all other forms of atrocities against their fellow human beings around the world, not to mention the killing of meat for their own consumption.
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The constant use of the slaughterhouse as something comparable to this is simply idiotic. Not only is the wild dolphin hunt clearly more brutal than any example one can provide of the methods used to kill animals bred for slaughter, but I am having a hard time thinking of any hunting of wild animals that is as comparably cruel.
And while you might not care about what is killed or how it is killed, the majority of society (including Japanese society) these days does. While PETA and the like might be extremists, the notion of animal rights has become standard fare and most people expect animals to be treated in a humane fashion, even those that are to be killed for food.
By the way, Mike, is your last name Vick?
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Meh…about as clever as I’d expect from someone using an MST3K reference for their handle. However, I do applaud you for not going down the “dolphins are cute and/or intelligent” route and pursuing the slightly less popular “this hunt it brutal” one.
Your definition of brutality and mine obviously differ considerably. Let me take a page out of your book and give this a try. Not only is the wild dolphin hunt clearly less brutal than any example one can provide of the methods used to kill animals bred for slaughter, but I am having a hard time thinking of any hunting of wild animals that is less cruel. Convincing argument, no?
Anyway, if “the majority of society (including Japanese society) these days” cares so much about the way in which these animals are killed, Japanese society is curiously silent about it. Now, off to the dog fights!
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Nobody NEEDS any animal for food. Yet most people still eat animals. Why is it that the 26 hunters in Taiji must stop killing dolphins for food when there are hundreds of thousands of people killing pigs, cows, chickens, fish, etc for food?
Dogs are friendly and social, but certain groups of people kill them for food. Does that bother you? Is it ok to kill chickens for food because they’re stupid?
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Actually, we kind of do need some meat in our diets. It is possible to find vegetarian options for the protein meat contains, but it is much more difficult to replace the essential amino acids that our bodies take from meat. But just because we do need meat as part of our diet, doesn’t mean we have reason to feed off every living animal. There is a reason that Tuna and Chicken are a staple source of meat in many parts of the world, while Dolphins or Apes are not
I never had any problem with the “dog food” industry in Korea. After all, they are bred for slaughter in the same fashion that cows or pigs are. Both animal rights activists and red meat enthusiasts need to appreciate that there is a difference between “bred-for-slaughter” animals and wild animals.
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Some people prefer wild animal for food to bred-for-slaughter animals because the conditions for breeding are so cruel and because they think breeding in cruel conditions and killing them later give much more pains and sufferings to the animals than just killing the wild animals.
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Free range meat is certainly the best method, not just because it is a more humane method of breding for slaughter, but it is a better method for food quality. It is true that many bred-for-slaughter animals don’t enjoy such conditions, and I do believe that efforts should be made to end inhumane (and unsafe) methods of raising bred-for-slaughter animals.
I don’t mind the hunting of wild animals for food, but again believe the methods need to be humane and the animal in question should have some value as a meat product. For example, if someone showed me that dolphin meat was a critical food staple of this community, and if the fishermen decided to move from the barbaric drive hunting method to a more humane selective hunting method, well, it would be much harder for me to argue against the practice (leaving me with the genuinely scary mercury argument, or the more widespread “they’re cute” argument).
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So you are against farming and killing cows,pigs etc.,aren’t you? They suffer more pains than dolphin.
I am not sure it is a stable food or not, but I’m sure it occupies the important part of their economy.
That is why I said on another comment section that people protesting should provide the income Taiji people get for hunting and find them new job.
I am not entirely against the animal right activism.
There are controversy over who has right.
Do cows, for instance, have the right not to be killed?
Some people say intellectual creatures have it.
Others argue that sentient beings which have the ability to feel pain have it.(And there are many other criterion as well.)
But we don’t know for sure how much intellects cows,whales etc have. these issues cannot be settled with the certainty required for justice,
On the other hand, most people agree that we should not abuse our pet. Most people agree that we should not brutalize stray cats.The way we see animals has evolved.it is wrong to brutalize the animal unnecessarily.
So I understand the argument that we shouldn’t be cruel to the animal, it is better to kill animal less painfully, it is better not to kill the animals unnecessarily.
What I cannot understand is that only dolphin should be saved, the only Taiji should be blamed.
I cannot understand the government which blame Taiji while approving of killing cows and kangaroo for food.
I cannot understand the city of Broome which suspended the tie with Taiji while still holding the tie with Australian government.
Just as the police who arrest only Blacks look racist, the activists who blame dolphin hunter in Taiji only look racist.
And I feel it is unfair that journalism put up brutal photos of whales and dolphin when they report the animal activism while they just report irrational acts by animals right activists when it comes to other animals.
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Damn, these dolphins sure bring up a lot of bickering.
Fun to pet,
Better to chew…
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It is not only the fact that the Dolphins are being killed it is the way they are being killed.
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Regardless of the “cute” or “intelligence” factor – they’re killing a world resource without caring about the long term effects.
If I want to eat pig, or cow, or sheep, or even dog – I can get several females, a single male, let nature take it’s course, and several months later – have hundreds of pig/cow/sheep/dog to eat. And I can repeat that cycle ad infinitum.
If I drive 50-100 dolphins into a cove and kill them. Where do the next 50 come from? Sooner or later – the free lunch is over.
The hunters are greedy self centered fools hiding behind tradition in order to milk a limited resource for their own profit.
They show no foresight, no planning, nothing. I can’t wait for them to exterminate their livelihood. Then what lame ass excuse will they use for their missing “tradition”.
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Has the population of dolphins been declining? Can you please tell me where I can find such data?
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‘Sooner or later the free lunch is over.’
The Taiji hunters killed 100 bottlenose dolphins. According to SeaWorld’s website:
So with an estimated 316,935 dolphins in the northwest Pacific it would take over 3000 years to kill all of the dolphins. What kind of foresight or planning do you propose?
Another point that you fail to mention in your argument is that farm animals depend on food resources that place considerable stress on the eco-system as well. What do you suggest we do to fix that?
The use of natural resources should always be done in moderation. I fail to see how killing 100 dolphins on a non-endangered species goes against that philosophy. One might actually say that the low number of dolphins killed is a sign of foresight and planning.
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Um…if you READ the article, the fisherman say they take around 2400 dolphins per season (not just 100).
Second, the population estimates vary soooooo much (and from doubtful sources) that it’s obvious they’re pulled from someones ass and not an accurate count.
So, if you can’t monitor something, how can you possible manage it?
When someone starts raising dolphins for food, then I say nosh away – until then, it’s a risky endeavor with ZERO thought on sustainability or global impact.
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Vonskippy, I understand that you don’t like the idea of hunting dolphins. Simply put, however, arguments based on numbers don’t work for an animal that is not endangered; and if you can’t trust the NMFS even for rough numbers, then it’s pretty safe to say any population counts will suffice – I officially announce there are 16 trillion dolphins in the ocean.
If their numbers are dwindling, then by all means implement measures to protect their existence. Barring that, limited hunting of a non-endangered species will have little to no impact on the global eco-system.
And yes, you are correct – the fishermen plan to hunt 2400 dolphins. So, if were to assume a complete stop of dolphin reproduction, then we have have approx. 130 years before they go extinct…in the northwest Pacific.
Maybe now O’Barry will switch his focus to sharks which play a much more important role in the overall health of the ocean and are being over fished to the point of extinction. I’m not keeping my fingers crossed, though.
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Indeed, Kevin. I am often bemused by people who have a kind of religious belief that humans catching animals means they will eventually “run out”. There seems to be a basic lack of understanding that dolphins (even dolphins!) copulate like any other animal we eat, so taking a conservative number per year isn’t going to exhaust their numbers over the long term.
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wuh wuh wuhhhhh…did somebody actually bother to present something other than their own personal opinion and cite sources at the same time??? You, my friend, do not belong in this thread…take your facts and evidence elsewhere please, you’ll confuse people.
I’ll echo VonSkippy’s comment, I find a study conducted by some fly-by night operation called the NMFS highly suspect, mainly because I don’t agree. Heck, they fall under some organization called “NOAA”…you can’t fool me, who would name an organization NOAA? It looks like it’s based in the U.S., so maybe somebody should inform the U.S. Government that these yahoo’s are touting such questionable figures which are supporting Japanese efforts to kill all dolphins everywhere!
/sarcasm
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I agree Mike. An organization run by the US Government?
That’s… THAT’S SOCIALISM!
They are trying cover up Obama’s death panels by lying to us about the dolphin population!
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VonSkippy, think of those farm animals. Do you think they are humanely treated?
They are confined in a cage or a cell. They are fed with poultry litter or even bone meal. To make cows produce milk, they are made artificially pregnant, and as soon as they give birth to a calf, the calf is killed so as not to waste milk. And they are killed while young and tender.
If you want to grass feed your cattle, you need a huge pasturage from which all the wild animals are driven out and in which all the trees are cut down.
Maybe I should travel to the US or Australia and shout “free the animals!” in front of the farmers.
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Maybe you should Stereo….
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On second thought, maybe I should not.
That would make me look as stupid as Richard O’Barry.
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Anyone who condones the killing of dolphins is a despicible excuse for a human! Anyone who finds ways to justify it for whatever reason, wether it be cultural or econmic is an ignorant fool! I cmae into this thread thinking I was going to find people defending these defenseless creatures..yet I have read comenet after comenet of people in support of this shameful human behaviour. I am a vegetarian for 14 years so I am no hypocrite and I feel the same way about any animal, wether its a dolphin or a cow.
In fact, if one person is unkind to an animal it is considered to be cruelty, but where a lot of people are unkind to animals, especially in the name of commerce, the cruelty is condoned and, once large sums of money are at stake, will be defended to the last by otherwise intelligent people.
—Ruth Harrison, author of Animal Machines
The human race is a DISGRACVE! All you supporters of dolphin killing are hearltess and selfish and I hope you ar ehunted down some day!
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You draw the line between plants and animals. I draw the line between human and non-human. We are not that different.
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And I draw the line between me and all you inferior beings….
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I agree, the human race is extremely DISGRACVE-ful or something something something.
“I don’t like something because I think it’s brutal, therefore I believe those that engage in it should be brutalized.” Pot, meet kettle. You may want to consider enlisting in Rob A.’s Eco-Strike Squad Super Team Alpha.
When push comes to shove, you will do nothing to change the situation which you despise so much. I’ll go so far as to say that nobody will do anything to change the situation in the near future. Whether you, I, or anyone else agree with this practice, the Japanese are entitled to it for exactly that reason. You are no more the arbiter of what is ethical or good than I am.
In closing, I fully support Amy’s earlier post in which she suggests a Dolphins for Downs program…can’t we just all get along?
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Re the Update:
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/news/20090910p2g00m0dm031000c.html
is in English and says 50, not 10, though the Sankei does indeed say 10.
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Hamachiman, there are so many people in those killing countries who oppose this slaughter, wth are you talking about? and wth makes you think YOU are so superior?
you open your mouth and it spews from the wrong end.
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apologies to Hamachi…meant Helical…
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What?
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Are you sure this is regarding me?
For comments on this article:
- I pointed out that there’s a “ban” on killing people a.k.a. homicide laws unlike the bottlenose dolphin so the quip with the cannibalism analogy wouldn’t work.
- I gave my opinion that a monetary compensation to not hunt the dolphins would probably not work — which turned out to be true in The Cove (which I have not seen) and that it might just offend people who would take as trying to buy them out.
- I gave evidence that the stated reason of “bad weather” for delaying the hunt was likely true and not just a ploy to get the visitors off the fishermen’s backs.
- I called out a person spamming the same comment on multiple articles.
If you could actually use the “Reply to this comment” thing, it would make it easier…
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Having read most of the wonderful comments to date. Have we all forgotten that we humans were never designed to eat mammals in general in the first place? That habit has been acquired over the years and we have learned to get sort of used to it. Cold blooded animals such as fish are acceptable at the most. Dis-eases of our times are cold hard facts of that. Nothing to do with culture or right to do so. All mammal killing/capture for food or fun are the most cruel activities of the world today the way is is done, nothing humane about it.
There is no way that anyone can justify what is happening in Japan or anywhere else in the world for that matter when it comes to mammals of the animal world. Animals treat humans a hundredfold better than the way we treat them.
Get it out of your system, GO GREEN!!
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We humans are not “designed.” We evolved.
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In any archaeological site you can find bones of animals. You can find pictures of hunting drawn by cavemen. How can you tell men are not designed to eat mammals?
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“Dis-eases of our times are cold hard facts of that.”
What you seem to be groping somewhat blindly towards is that many of our most common diseases started spreading when we began domesticating animals and living with them in (relative) close quarters.
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People;
See this:
http://redfox2667.blog111.fc2.com/blog-entry-137.html
This is a scene from a similar whale hunt in Faroe Islands, Norway.
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Woops I meant, Denmark, not Norway.
But Norway also catches whales if I’m correct.
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So Japan legally catches animals from the sea and eats them. What was the problem again? Are these animals special or something?
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Yes, they’re cute widdle cuddly animals wot do cute twicks.
Anyone here up for a rack of lamb? A nice cute cuddly woolly fluffy baby lambkin we can roast and devour?
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Yes, in fact, I would be up for some cute, cuddly wuddly, bred for slaughter lamb. Mmm, kebab.
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The anti-dolphin hunting stuff seems more fueled by emotional knee-jerk reaction, and reason is attached as an afterthought to justify their feelings. Pigs are smart, but I’m pretty damn sure most people that go are quick to condemn Taiji after watching “the cove” eat pigs on a regular basis.
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Well, pigs aren’t terribly cute, and you can’t make bacon from dolphins so pigs are naturally going to be the losers here.
Your comment is right on target.
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I stopped eating mammals after a series of knee-jerk reactions. Those reactions may not necessarily have logical reasons and arguments to back them up, but they’re still valid points of view.
The people having those reactions may eat meat, but they may also be concerned about the living conditions of those animals and buy meat products from more ethically grown and slaughtered animals. Even if the people having those reactions eat at McDonald’s, their point of view is still valid and may be a step in another direction in which they do think about what they’re eating.
Flaming those people won’t change anything.
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Nice try boys and girls deviating from the subject. No, we are not designed to eat meat, our dentures, stomach and intestinal structure are not meant to either shred or digest meat. True, we evolved over time to “manage” these types of groceries and have acquired a taste for meat. It takes on average 3 days before meat is processed in our system. A late meat eating friend of ours actually died of self poisoning, I’m pretty sure she was not the only one either. Our dentures and digestive system are the most evident that we should not eat meat just like say cows and horses who have the type of dentures we have. If they would eat meat for whatever reason, they will surely die as a result of that as their digestive system is even more sensitive to meat then ours, one does not have to be a doctor to figure this out.
Giving up meat is also a lot easier than say given up smoking or alcohol, trust me, I know!
All animal mammals will give you a big THANK YOU if you did!!
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Well then, problem solved, no?
You can personally believe whatever you want and practice veganism, but since meat is a most convenient source of vital nutrients, a potent energy source, and quite tasty, I will stick with what my biology allows me to consume.
You keep on mentioning the word “meant” or “designed” as if there were an intent or an instruction manual out there that spells out proper usage of the human body. I won’t get into a discussion involving Darwin, but if you’re gleaning such proper procedures from our biology, why not go all the way?
Do you know a thing called fire? A look at our skin shows that we are obviously unsuited for handling such phenomenon of high temperature. It causes burns and takes many days to heal if we are exposed to it. There are many people who burn to death around the world. This is evidence that we should not handle fire and avoid it at all costs. So no heating for you.
Our puny body hair obviously means we were not meant to live in any place colder than tropic areas where we wouldn’t freeze to death in the night or winter seasons. If you give up your clothes and live on the Savannah, I’m sure all the hapless trees cut down to make your nice house and the cotton plants used in weaving your clothes would give you a big THANK YOU too!
And so on.
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Gosh helical, is it always your purpose to make things personal? I really don’t care what you eat or do wether your hot or cold as you gave such intelligent responses.
You obviously have no clue anymore at to what this forum is all about in this particular case but most certainly it is not about you or me, try to understand that please!
But FYI, there is nothing that green nature can not provide in terms of nutrition. You may like meat but you do not need it.
Dr. Deepak Chopra (if you know who that is of course) explaines in one of his publications called “Perfect Digestion” why a hamburger for instance, is one solid pound of death!
I am not going to explain this to you in this forum. Buy the book yourself.
You take it from here…………
Over and out!
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Dr. Deepak Chopra: “New Age” medicine nutjob and intelligent design advocate?
No thanks.
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“A late meat eating friend of ours actually died of self poisoning”
What is this? Suicide by arsenic or something?
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Needless to say that there were underlying circomstances otherwise everyone who eats meat would die in about week. All she was told at the time to stop eating meat until the underlying circomstances would allow her to do so again.
Did not think I had to explain this but there you go.
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Of course you had to explain it. You imply that meat is poisonous, which of course it is not, or else we would all be dead. I still remain suspicious, however, since it is an unsubstantiated anecdote. However if you are going to drag up some rare illness based on an underlying condition to claim meat is bad, you might as well claim vegetables are bad due to all those people who die from nut allergies.
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Humans are designed to be omnivorous. It’s often difficult to get all of the amino acids and other nutrients humans need without eating meat. It’s also difficult for humans to digest many portions of vegetables because we can’t break down cellulose. If we were meant to be herbivores, we would probably have a digestive system similar to that of cows.
Our teeth are designed to handle a variety of food, including meat. Our canines are designed for tearing, an important part of meat ingestion.
Also, stomachs do not carry out the main processes of digestion. They churn food into a paste, which is then digested mostly in the intestine. The intestine can and is designed to be able to digest meat. It takes a while for any food, not just meat, to be digested.
If we were truly “designed” to be herbivores, we probably wouldn’t be able to easily chew or digest meat at all-it would make us horribly sick.
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I do not pretend to know it all and I shall research some of your comments some more myself.
My main issue is this as we are dicussing primarily as to why the Japanese catch dolphins for consumption and we do the same with cows, pigs, goats and what not, hence the resentment of the Japanese. All warm blooded creatures including humans produce and release high amounts of toxins when under duress, such as knowing you are going to be killed in the next 10 minutes, pigs in particular know this very well as the pig among all other animals is actually one the most if not “the” most intelligent land mammal on earth. Humans release similar toxins who suffer from say exam fear and they literally get sick to their stomach, head aches and what not and lots of them end up in bed for a good few days. Now, since humans are NOT going to be killed in the next 10 minutes for that reason, we are given time to heal and will get better. Slaughter animals do not have that luxury and all those toxins remain in their system until it ends up on your plate. One would have to cook the “dying daylights” out of it to reduce these toxins so hopefully it won’t kill us the long run. Downed cows in particular that were still used for consumption to feed a variety of school lunch programs. You may know all that beef was recalled in fear of toxic meat. I know the FDA has a certain allowance for toxidity in meats so I guess that makes it alright, right?
Everybody has a right to eat what they want whatever is available on the supermarket shelves as street killing for food is illegal except in certain countries we all know about.
It is not the intent to upset anybody, merely to show the other side of warm blooded meat in this case and have a healthy dialog about it. It is perfectly fine if anyone does not agree with my assessment. It’s your body and you can do whatever you want with it.
Peace to the world!
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After some research, you are correct even though I never thought of myself as a born omnivore. Since you already knew and I know now for sure, for those who want to know all the ins- and outs about omnivores, have a look at this link. I was happy however to read and confirm that indeed we do have a choice and do not have to rely on meat to live and survive.
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
I do hope that more people in the world realize that cruel hunting and slaughtering is not a way to obtain healthy food.
Ironically, if we would oppose animals naturally, the way animals can only oppose to us if they would only want to, who would win?
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It’s great to see that the dolphins are no longer being killed. Keep spreading the word about The Cove!
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Search the Earth, Seas and Sky
For Many a Secrets We Have Yet to Find
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“The Cove” might not have stopped dolphin hunting completely, but it was at least successful in raising awareness. Information is the first step to inspiring change. http://www.newsy.com/videos/hunting_the_dolphin_hunters
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Yes, it has worked so well in ending whaling..
and hunger,
and terrorism,
and various Third World abuses.
While the people who actually make the world a better place; such as US marines killing terrorists, or geneticists developing strains of wheat that double crop yields, or engineers who invent products that give birth to multi-national corporations that give jobs to millions?
They are spat on by the left, because they expose just how meaningless thier protest marches and documentaries and blogs really are in the scheme of things. The hatred is understandable. Nobody likes being exposed as worthless.
The other true motive?
Protests are actually subconsciously motivated by raising awareness about oneself amongst the cute, rich, naive Granola chicks with big tits who conveniently don’t believe in marriage or “keeping my baby” in your co-op dorm at the university.
In later years, the motivation is to raise awareness of yourself amongst the cute, rich, naive Granola chicks with big tits who conveniently don’t believe in marriage or “keeping my baby” that attend your tax-funded lectures on American Imperialism at the university.
“But I’m not even in university and I protest!” you say?
Well then, what the hell is wrong with you?
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Humans are not designed to eat meat? Humans became accustomed to eating meat?
How deep does the willful ignorance go?
Before the invention of cultivation and farming, what the heck did humans eat? If anything, humans “became accustomed” to eating carbohydrates, bread, pasta, rice. And in theory, the increase in diabetes and obesity is the result of going against our evolution and/or design. And a real treatment option for diabetes and obesity? An all meat and vegetabgle diet!!!!
What does the vegan left think about the Atkins diet?
We were hunter gatherers. And unless your tribe happened to live near a conveniently available year-round combo of necessary proteins (a bean field and a rice paddy next to each other that also produced year-round output?) your tribe died of malnutrition.
Yup, the far left and the far right have a lot in common. The right thinks we didn’t evolve from monkeys. The left thinks we still are monkeys. Both ignore the overwhelming evidence and prefer thier religion (be it god or gaia).
Should I also throw in the study that showed vegans suffer from reduced brain capacity?
Nah, there’s already plenty of evidence here.
“I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants.” Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey
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I think we should move on to Level4 to still make some sense out of what we are discussing here.
I am going to point out a few more items that will cause more insult to injury.
Besides the Taiji dolphin affair, there is a lot more going on in the Japanese waters and sadly in the rest of the world as well if we believe all the reports to date which should make us a lot more aware and realize why we need to preserve what little we have left, regardless of what we eat. We need to stay focused on the big picture.
Most of us know that the Japanese are the most vigorous fisherman in the world, aggressive and breaking just about every marine law ever written. It was briefly on the world news about a month ago. Every year a very large amount of giant jellyfish make their way in to the Japanese waters, these jellyfish are usually food for the big guys in the water such as sharks, marlins, sailfish and possibly even dolphins, not sure about dolpins as I am not a marine specialist but learning every day. This year however, almost none of the jellyfish have been consumed and are posing serious hardships to Japan. Why is that? Well, simple, the Japanese fisherman have virtually depleted the waters of predators as aforementioned. As a result, they now literally roam the global waters for more fish and what not to still their immeasureable desire for seafood, either to sell or consume. They sail around the world with their monster trawler nets collecting just about everything that moves in the free waters. Because trawlers are totally indiscriminate, 40 to 50% of all items caught, alive but mostly dead, gets thrown overboard including dolphins, turtles, sharks, seals etc. as that was not what they were fishing for that day. All marine mammals are dead by the time the net is being hauled in because they have drowned already. And not to put the blame on just Japan, they are most definitely not alone in doing this. Have no illusion.
There is one thing that has been seriously overlooked for a long time. Regardless of how cruel it is they way we breed farm animals for consumption, we have lost our moral beliefs of what is right and what is wrong but as a result of that, we sustain part of the food chain no matter how good or bad that may be. Now, with marine life, we can’t do that, we have absolutely no control over the breeding habits of marine “anything”! As a result of that, we also have no reliable data whatsoever of what is left in the waters worldwide, guestimates at best. One of the best PhD marine biologists with whom I am in contact has confirmed that piece of information. We can only count what we see, other than that, we are as blind as a bat.
The second insult to injury, also regardless of what we consume, is the fact that of all the products prepared for consupmtion that can not be given back to nature in a useable form, 40 to 50% of that ends up in the garbage can. Primarily restaurants are to blame for that part. All that is left to feed with that type of refuse are rodents, stray cats, dogs and of course homeless people. How noble.
No, Taiji alone is not going to make the dolpin endangered or extinct but just about everyone else combined is, wether that be a dolphin, marlin, shark, turtle, grouper, tuna………the list is very long and ugly. If it wasn’t for the few freshwater farms such as salmon and tilapia, there would be nothing left to catch there either.
The world is seriously out of control when it comes to our food chains. Has anyone seen the documentary on Discovery “Life After People”? Scary isn’t it how people come up with that kind of of idea. Fact or fiction?
If the oceans of the world are the first to go “dead” being two-thirds of the worlds total mass, what will happen? Do you think we the people can survive with oceans that stink and look like a sewer? All the farmed meat nor all agricultural products in the world are going to save us then.
Add global warming in the mix, we the peole of the world have a lot to think about of how we are going to sustain ourselves in the near furture. Being and staying positive on the matters will do the most amount of good like MJ’s famous words: If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make the change.
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Oh dear, where do you keep on coming up with these wild “facts”??
If you could produce some sources and/or evidence for your claims, that would be great since otherwise, most of it’s pretty far out there.
I’ll start off with asking which laws specifically have Japan broken in fishing around the world? (And don’t say “all of them”)
The giant jellyfish are mostly a problem on the Northwest side of Japan facing the Sea of Japan.
They’re born in the Yellow Sea or the Bohai sea (way inside China’s EEZ) and are carried by sea currents all the while growing until they reach enormous proportions by the time they clog and tear the Japanese fishermens’ nets.
Little study have been done on them (since they have little economic value), but most preliminary theories state that the recent explosion in numbers and size are a result of China overfishing their natural predators and dumping pollutants into the waters accompanying their rapid economic growth. But studies to back up these theories are lagging since China and Korea doesn’t really consider it to be a threat to themselves and a priority.
http://eco.nikkei.co.jp/column/yamane_kazuma/article.aspx?id=MMECp1040018122007&page=3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomura%27s_jellyfish
As a sidenote, all the lengthy handwaving about Japan being thoughtless and evil fishermen ransacking the world’s oceans, followed by a quick blurb about others doing it too at the very end is somewhat disingenuous IMHO.
I’m not sure I understand the difference between the role humans play in the land food chain and marine food chain. There are farms for both. And farming and domestication of animals doesn’t seem to play any role in altering the breeding habits of wild land animals either.
So your PhD marine biologist friend says that we can’t count what we can’t see. That seems reasonable. So how much can we see?
And what is your definition of “usable by nature”? Because, I thoght rats, stray cats dogs, and even humans were a part of nature too. Once those animals (though I’m not sure about the bum) die, then nature takes its course and breaks them down.
If you were talking about industrial products like plastics or chemicals, those are certainly the types of things that can’t be used by nature. I’d have thought biodegradables like restaurant garbage would have been the least of one’s worries.
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You do realize that you’re arguing with a total nut job, right? Just sayin’…
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“If you don’t know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then … make it up on the spot.”
— Paul Watson, in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior’s Guide to Strategy
And that is the strategy used by so many of these anti-whaling and anti-dolphin hunt activists.
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I have no idea how many people are still reading or have read this particular forum but for what it’s worth, I shall proceed as besides the serious nature of the topic, I actually do have a lot of fun doing this, unlike some of the negative responses I have read to date, those people obviously have no fun at all.
OK, first, which part of the “stay focused on the big picture” is it you do not understand. Do you really think in this case I care where exactly giant jellyfish are coming from? They are there, that is what counts and why they are not being consumed like they should have been, that is what matters. Marine, air and land alike, have a very delicate ecological balance requirement that needs to be maintained, and it’s not. Humans in general have given themselves the right to capture, kill and/or slaugther just about anything just moves on land, sea and in the air in terms of animals. I can imagine that most people of the world think, well, as long as there is some kind of food available somewhere, it’s ok, who cares, let somebody else worry about that. And guess what, somebody else IS worrying about that and hopefully a lot more besides myself. The killing of the dolphins in Taiji is much more a moral problem then anything else. It’s the “big picture” killing that matters. I am really surprised that apparently none of you understand that part. You do not need to be a PhD to figure this out. There is awful lot of information available to validate my statements if one cares enough to read and hear about them and live your life with your eyes and ears open. I get most of my “facts” from reading multiple newspapers, magazines and of course Google. I am not the academic that saves every piece of paper, statements etc. so I can prove to anyone else that I know something and how smart I am. I have eyes, ears and a very well functioning memory bank in my head. I have also been a member for some time of the WSPA, HSUS/HSI, PETA, IFAW just to name a few to keep myself informed of all the happenings in the world. This has given me a very broad range of information and knowledge pertaining to ALL animals of the world and the way we treat, use and abuse them. Besides that, I also communicate, something I can’t say about some of you by simply making do by calling me and others a nut job and that’s it, must be the only two words they know? Ha!
Now helical, in answer to your questions:
As mentioned clearly, it is not just Japan, many times the international fishery departments have called out and made law the moratorium on how much we can all fish for not to deplete the oceans as that would mean total disaster, and very few countries are listening. Japan’s lawless practice is primarily the whale hunt for so-called scientific reasons, yeah, right. Like in the Solomon Islands it is primarily the indiscriminant dolphin hunt by providing dolphins for the dolphin abusement parks around the world. It takes about 10 dolphins on average to keep one that actually makes it to one of those dispicable parks, the other 9 usuallly die in the process. FACT! If dolphins could/would only breed in captivity a lot more, they could use the offspring. Still does not make it right though, they suffer just as hard. Placing a dolphin in an oversize bath tub for the rest of it’s now short life, is like putting a human in a phone booth for the rest of it’s life, or is that too hard to understand too?
You don’t understand the difference between land and marine food chains? Make me smart please. Where is the nearest to anywhere marine farm that breeds for consumption. 99% of all marine “fish” do not breed in captivity, period! There may be the 1% I really don’t know about, wow, stupid me!
How much can you see to count? Well, I would say, whatever occasionally sticks it’s head above the waterline. Good enough?
Useable by nature? OK, here we go. Since we are depleting a lot of mother nature’s ways to feed ourselves, wether that be home grown or taken from the wild makes no real difference. We are, at least of course in our modern western societies, over indulging ourselves in the way we prepare food. Eventhough I do not live in the USA nor Europe(anymore), oops, I let the secret out, I do find myself on and off in the USA.
If you go to the average restaurant, wether one is there for breakfast, lunch or dinner, the amount of food served is beyond reality, most can eat the entire day of each one of those servings, in other words, if I would take all three timed servings home, I could eat for 3 days, at least. But, that is quite often not how it works, the left over food gets disgarded in to the gabage bin in the back of the restaurant, nothing to do with plactics. Someone once said, in the USA by the way and no, I do not know the name anymore, that if the USA alone could somehow preserve the food that is being wasted, send to those countries literally dying for it, there would be no starvation, IN THE WORLD! I’m sure now you know where I’m going with this. Once the food, in whatever form is picked, caught, whatever, is prepared for consumption, you can not put it back where it came from for future use. Refrigeration only last so long and that is also not really the problem. The primary reason for this waste is the restaurants, hence the accusation, serve way too much food for the average person to eat at any one time. It may change now in these days of economic hardship. Less food or more doggie bags? Less food for less money is better, don’t you think?
Restaurants think they can advertise by providing value for money by means of loading you up until you either throw up or for you to become 300 lbs as well.
In a nut shell, point taken?
We’re out of control and out of balance with mother nature and I think it is high time we attempt to change that. We fish, we grow food mostly for the sake of making money, the more the better, not to preserve nature in such a fashion that this tiny world of ours can maintain doing so for the generations to come. Or should we simply ignore that little side effect and just think about ourselves. I am not a socialist, just social, as down the line, like it or not, we all somehow need each other in some form or another to make this work. GLOBALLY!
Time for lunch now. Later!
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http://www.saleairmax.com Air Max
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hi,
sorry god not suppose to judge or think bad thoughts, but wish these people were lined up to be slaughtered, as what there doing to these beautiful dolphins that are friendly and there protected by law not to be hunted and slaughtered, hope they catch these mutha flockers and give them the highest penalty death sentance.maybe they will fear what its like to smell there own mortality diminishing.
not sure if allowed to say how i feel but i did.
had it with murderers of any nature and death penalties need to come back every wheres and even killing of protected animals same difference murder!
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LMAO!!
wow
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Again Japan, you are arrogant not to listen to what the rest of the world has got to say about this outrageous crime against the world, shame on you japan, you just destroyed all the art you are so proud of and made it meaningless and redundant in my eyes, you’ve got not eye for beauty and respect, all you’ve got is blood on your hands from the innocent voicelss animals
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This is becoming comical.
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