Why Japanese (and not Koreans) won 2 Nobel prizes for literature
July 9th, 2009 by James
A South Korean teacher explains why no Koreans have won a Nobel prize for literature:
His statement of “fact”: Korean is superior to all other languages. Japan, a culturally inferior nation, has won two Nobel prizes for literature because Japanese is a crude language that is so simple to translate into English. Korean, on the other hand, is harder to translate into other languages because it is so damn exquisite and beautiful.
[hat tip to Mulboyne]
Related story: VANK, South Korea’s leading ultra-nationalist organization, giving away laptop computers to foreign bloggers who write positive things about Korea. Maybe some of you out there can borrow this guy’s idea about the superiority of Korean and get a chance at some prizes…
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An imperfect thing to translate into the other language is not in
the merit and is a defect. Because the language has the first role
in clearly telling the intention.
If only there were a Nobel Prize for Nationalist Bullshit.
It’s so hard to believe people really think this way. I almost feel like I’m being trolled or something.
Actually after thinking about this for a minute maybe he is right. Maybe he only sounds like a racist duchebag because it’s so hard to translate Korean into English.
So what do you think of this sentence :
“You all know that Japan is really an inferior country.”???
only sounds like a racist?
No way…
G4tsu.P, you missed the sarcasm in pixel_bomber’s comment entirely.
Read it again and take note of “because it’s so hard to translate Korean into English”. =)
Lol Koreans crack me up. Most of my Korean students believe similar bullshit to this in how their country and culture is the best in the world.
My Australian students believed that Australia is the best country in the world. My Korean students believed that Korea is the best country in the world. My American students believed that America is the best country in the world. My Japanese students believed that Japan is the best country in the world. My Chinese students believe that China is the best country in the world.
We’re all taught this kind of patriotic bullshit. So what?
As far as I know, this guy is completely right. But I’m not into either Korean or Japanese literature or linguistics, and unlike pretty much everyone else who has commented I don’t think reading a blog post on the issue makes me an expert on it.
As for “Japan is really an inferior country,” doesn’t that English seem a little stilted? Obviously the translator isn’t a native speaker (perhaps not of either language), and may not know just how capture the specific meaning of the original sentence. I don’t know, it’s just a possibility, but you should always cut people some slack when it comes to subtitles putting words in their mouth.
I was wondering that, so I ask my korean friend about the translation, and she told it was right
These nationalist Koreans are hilarious. Every time I hear something like this in Japan, I just imagine what it would be like if I were in Korea, and everything is fine.
If this had been a Japanese teacher, Korea would have recalled their ambassador, and there’d be thousands protesting in Seoul.
This type of racist BS is all too common in Korea. Try walking down the streets of Seoul with your Korean girlfriend, and see what kind of looks you get.
Try walking down the street of a major city in North America with your Japanese girlfirend and see what kind of looks you get from Korean guys who think that she is Korean!
lol I feel ya!Same thing happened with me and my bf in k-town…
one old guy literally held his mouth open with a “WTF look” and my bf spoke out loudly in Japanese..then his look changed to disbelief, because he felt even worse that he thought my bf was “one of his own” haha>D
or try walking down the street as a korean american with your caucasian wife and mixed toddler. you get the stare down from just about everybody. glares from ignorant white folks, “right-on!” acknowledgements from ignorant asian males. the world makes me sick sometimes.
I’m Korean and there was this Japanese girl who was in my Geology class when I was in College, she would throw some flirtatious stares at me, I don’t know there was this white loser who was younger and physically smaller than me trying to block me lol… what a POS. And she wasn’t even white…
Who let the troll out of his cage?
what troll?
How is this post relevant? I think your racism is showing. White loser? Black loser? What’s the difference? White guys can’t chase after Asian chicks?
Oh, please. Never mind the nationalist Japanese who are openly racist. Never mind the atrocities committed during the war, not just in Korea, that they still try to deny or tone down.
And by the way, they consider themselves quite superior to most any other country … they’re just better at concealing that mindset.
“And by the way, they consider themselves quite superior to most any other country … they’re just better at concealing that mindset.”
As they should be. Nor of course are the Japanese remotely alone in thinking they are better than anyone else. But classy people conceal their contempt for others.
I am a bit surprised he didn’t blame Korea’s lack of Nobel Prizes on Japan’s occupation – I gathered pretty much everything bad that happens to Korea gets blamed on that.
I don’t know what kind of teaching they do in Korea, but do you think they were raised to think that way perhaps? I mean, I literally laughed when I saw the title of this post and it’s kind of depressing to think some people are like this… I’m born Korean and raised in the USA, and I gotta say, I love Japanese culture. So when I see this type of people (like, the guy in the video) it really makes me sad…
I bet anyone who has some stronger national pride probably thinks their own country is the best in the world, or at least has the potential to be in some or all respects (irregardless of any facts). That’s acceptable to me.
You know the drill — France thinking French is THE best language in the world, Japan thinking they’re the most dexterous craftsmen in the world, America thinking they are the authority on freedom and democracy, etc. etc. IMO, a certain level of pride is a healthy thing in which it reinforces your commitment to excellence in the fields you think yourself superior. It just takes some of tact to conceal your beliefs a minimal amount to get along with your neighbors.
It just starts turning pathetic and tragically humorous to onlookers when one desperately clings to that pride by making various excuses and putting down your neighbors down to deceive yourself.
If there’s any hope, I bet the students supposedly laughing midways through the video were laughing at him for making such ridiculous claims.
I agree entirely with your first point. This is decidedly a human trait. People have been doing this forever – from Alexander the Great pushing Hellenism to modern globalization campaigns. It goes right down to the individual. I know here in America we not only like to think it’s the best country in the world, but we even have biases state to state. My father has opinions about Californians for instance. And heck, even in the city here there’s prejudice depending on what part of town you’re from.
Whether it’s overzealous pride or ignorance, this kind of thing is a universal. Unfortunately.
I once saw a guy make a hate speech and considered him to represent his entire country, too.
First of all, none culture is inferior or superior. Another thing, inferior people are those who do not show humility to accept such fact. Im tired of hearing from these Korean nationalists!!! Wake up, Both Japanese as well as Korean are good people and they deserve respect from each other ethinic group.
why i am not surprised…?
My *pth* accent *pth* is clearly *pth* superior to *pth* yours.
haha spongebob!
Korea has been walked over and thoroughly shagged by every country in the region (including themselves) for so long they have a genuine complex about it.
18 comments and not one suggestion yet as to which Korean writer would be worth a Nobel Prize, let alone getting translated into English. Come on, you can do better.
Korea and Japan have strikingly similar cultures.
Haven’t you heard:
Japanese is the most difficult language in the world, in fact it’s so difficult that no foreigner could possibly ever learn to speak it properly.
And Japanese has a much larger vocabulary than any other language in the world, according to ことばの知識百科, published by 三省堂 in 2007. Chapter 5 of this supposed encyclopedia of knowledge, (entitled, 日本語の語彙の特色) says in part that,
「一般に、日本語は外国語に比べて語彙が多い。」Among the incredible claims this book makes is that it takes a vocabulary of 10,000 words to understand 90% of the language, while in English or Spanish the number is 3,000, and the French get along with a mere 2,000.
Japan and Korea are very similar countries. They are about as different as England and France: they seem in many ways to be opposites on the surface, but when it comes to their cultural and intellectual heritage, value system, fundamental beliefs, and culture, they are strikingly similar.
A quick google search came up with the following explanation.
A Study by the Moscow Institute of Foreign Languages came up with the numbers of needing 1000 words to understand 80%, 2000 words for 87%, and 5000 for 94% of English literature.
The National Institute for Japanese Language came up with 560 for 50%, 1200 for 63%, 2800 for 73%, and 9700 for 89% for Japanese.
This is because English literature commonly uses phrases like “water”, “hot water”, “boiling water”, “boiled and cooled water” using combinations of simpler words to describe things whereas Japanese has a separate distinct word for each of them as in “水”, “お湯”, “熱湯”, “白湯” which racks up the vocabulary count.
Also, a very common example that people run into when translating is the huge number of first-person pronouns in Japanese which is all reduced to “I” or “me” in English.
But it’s not like the English lacks words. as the Oxford English Dictionary has 500,000 items, whereas Shogakukan’s Japanese Dictionary (considered one of the most prestigious Japanese dictionaries) has 450,000 words.
It’s good to check your facts before throwing out factoids without context.
It’s good to check your facts before throwing out factoids without context.
Well that certainly sucks the fun out of posting.
To give Eric his due, he didn’t make those claims, he merely noted sceptically that they were being made.
Another thing about Japanese is that compound words are made so easily with kanji. For example, you can stick 化 onto practically anything to give it the sense of “becoming.” English has “-ization” for similar things, but you can’t be quite so free with that.
Is the “word” Web 2.0 (note this is not an actual word) supposed to be the millionth English word?
That is a very excellent point. I kind of wandered that too seeing how the very same thing was taught during a course I took when I was studying abroad in Japan and we just happened to be talking about comparisons between vocabularies across languages. It is true that English uses a combination of easier words to make other phrases when Japanese probably has separate words to explain the same concept. Of course, the comparison I learned of was talking about spoken speech, when in itself English again doesn’t take a lot of vocabulary (from what I remember 3,000 words to understand 80%) to understand spoken. But, English is primarily used for verbal communication and it is key to be understood easily in that sense (as is with any other language as well, because nobody likes being confused on your meaning
).
I dont understand the mentality of korean especially the ones that teach,, if korean language is so superior then why do they use japanese words in their language? to name few like kaban=bag,dolo=road,baito=work,yakusoku=promis so many…
I heard so many from hearing my korean friends talk and I tell them did you say “” and I tell then its same in Japanese thats Japanese and they dont believe me they think its just sounds similar since we both learn the language from china but I tell them those words have meaning and its the way Japanese pronounce. They still cant believe that “their” special language is borrowed…
why make such a lame excuse to why they didnt win a noble prize? maybe having a raciest and negative mindset like that, the panel judges for the noble prize winner doesnt think koreans are fit to win since Noble Prize is meant for the outstanding contribution human beings and peace within world.
You’re wrong. Japanese and Korean both borrowed the language from Chinese. That’s why the pronunciations are similar. In fact the pronunciation of the words are a lot more similar between the Chinese and Korean, since they have only one way to read the Kanjis (the japanese have kun yomi and onn yomi).
I’m a Japanese person learning Korean and while I agree that Korean language is very complex, this is indeed such a lame excuse and another attempt to criticize those damn Japanese because some Koreans just don’t like the fact that Japanese novels are gaining attention in Korea.
Believe me, there are many phrases in Japanese that’s impossible to translate into English and Korean. I also fully understand that Korean is a language that has so many variety of phrases and expressions which makes it hard even for the Japanese (the Japanese learn Korean better than anyone else, trust me) people to learn the language well. I must agree that some expression’s beauty is understood only after studying the language.
But is this the reason why they cannot win nobel prize? no way. It’s simple, they never attempted it, which is fine. Just don’t bash the Japanese. For most english translators, translating Korean to English is just as hard to translate Japanese to English.
If the Japanese could do it, then the Koreans can. That’s the kind of attitude I love seeing from the Koreans.
i’m quite agree with ur point of view
Actually, “baito” (or arbaito) comes from the German arbeit, meaning work.
English contains many loan words such as pajamas and ’salaryman’, derived from the Japanese ’sarariman’, derived from the English ’salary’ and ‘man’, derived from the Latin ’salus’ meaning salt.
English also accomodates foreign words which express concepts which are intelligible to English speakers but for which there are no existing English words. ‘Schadenfreude’ and ‘Joie de vivre’ are examples.
I am sure other languages are equally adaptable and expressive.
It would be useless for the Koreans to try to promote themselves for a Nobel prize for literature since one of the rules of acceptance is that you can’t put yourself forwards. Also, works nominated for political or nationalistic reasons are excluded.
However, the works included can be in any language understood by the Swedish Academy committee members, and if suitable translations are not available they can be made. If it is claimed that Korean is such a complex and beautiful language that it cannot be adequately translated into any other language, that would seem to be an insult to the rest of the world. (It also makes one wonder how any foreigners ever learn Korean.)
Let us hope that some non-Korean literati will discover some Korean literature worth nominating.
Of course it is obvious that the point of the speech was to snipe at the Japanese out of jealousy rather than to deliberately insult everyone who isn’t Korean.
“Also, works nominated for political or nationalistic reasons are excluded.”
So any stunning dissertation on Why Dokdo is actually Korean therefore can’t win?
… so thats the real reason why they havent won a Nobel Proze!
hehe yeah the baito was a bad example to use but I was just trying point out that their language is not that unique and superior then any other language out there.
I understand the loan words as well that is why I pointed to name a few that koreans have loaned from the Japanese words to their own, its not because of learning from chinese language. Chinese,Korean and Japanese all have different pronunciation is where Im trying point out. In korean language they do have “loaned” Japanese words that they call of their own in their “unique” language
Every language have “loaned” words from other language but they usually know where that loaned word came from. Not koreans apparently or they just dont want to acknowledge it.
Bit off topic here but my top 3 nobel prize winners have to be:
1. Linguistics: Juan Manuel Toro, Josep B. Trobalon and Nuria Sebastian-Galles, for determining that rats sometimes can’t distinguish between recordings of Japanese and Dutch played backward.
2. Peace: The United States Air Force Wright Laboratory in Dayton, Ohio, for suggesting the research and development of a “gay bomb,” which would cause enemy troops to become sexually attracted to each other.
3. Medicine – Presented to Gregg A. Miller of Oak Grove, Missouri, for inventing Neuticles — artificial replacement testicles for dogs, which are available in three sizes, and three degrees of firmness.
One reason for the significant percentage of common vocabulary was the Japanese colonization of Korea. Other common words that are not derived from German, French, or English include “sumikiri” (nail clippers) which I discovered when struggling to explain what I was looking for to a bemused store clerk in Seoul.
going with ren’s idea,
have you heard of the igNobel Prizes?
They usually point out either extremely stupid/useless/uselessly specialized research or extremely cool but impractical science (some winners even show up and claim their prizes, all in good fun!)
A Japanese won it recently for finding a way to create vanillin from cow dung (thus allowing the cow to produce TWO of the key ingredients for vanilla ice cream!)
This dude could probably at least get a nomination for the IgNobel Prize for Literature, but he has to actually publish something to be eligible, I think.
Did some searching and found this:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/tonchamon/archives/cat_50017450.html
One of the commenters proceeds to translate that “untranslatable” poem, “Seungmu”.
Both Japanese and Korean languages uses same grammar structure, I can’t see how Japanese writing is easier to translate into English than Korean writing.
With regards to Chinese borrowed words, Japanese use more Sino-words than Korean. But again, we are not talking about “words” here, we are discussing about “Japanese is easier to translate than Korean”.
Japanese can learn Korean language faster than any other language just accent will be different. If you guys ever traveled to Pusan and Jolla provincial regions of Korea, you will pickup some some similarity of accents.
This is also same for Koreans, they can learn Japanese faster than any other foreign languages.
Ethnically and culturally, Japanese and Koreans are closest than others is pure fact. I can see Koreans are little bit more nationalistic than Japanese, this is mainly because of Japanese invasion and foreign intervention during Korean war.
I also find Japanese are often very nationalistic too specially when it encounter “Korean” thing.
If there was no Anti-sentiments in both countries then they would have been more opportunity for both countries to advance. Also, Japanese population is more than twice of that Koreans, so do spare little thoughts and empathy when comparing each others.
Yep. I think you’ve explained the situation very well.
korean nationalism or pride?
it is a just former problem of ability to think
Ummm, has anyone actually questioned whether the translation subtitles are accurate at all, instead of taking it at face value? We should be aware of all the facts and whether the translation is accurate before casting judgment and whatnot about what he said.
they are. I can attest to that.
A language that cannot be translated into any other International language is as good as a dead language! This dude shouldn’t be happy about it lol, not that Korean is really that hard o_O I mean I heard from most people that learned both Japanese and Korean that Korean’s even more easy than Japanese to learn at least.
I find people who feel the need to trumpet the virtues of their culture (especially in regards to a ‘rival’ culture) to be rather pathetic and desperate.
I mean, I can accept it from someome who comes from a culture that’s been totally degraded and decimated, someone who is trying to restore respect and pride but this kind of psuedolinguistic stuff is just arrogant egoism. “Hey! This country’s language is the most profound,its culture superior. And guess what? I JUST HAPPEN TO BE FROM THAT COUNTRY!”
I’ll bet his Dad can beat up your dad, too.
I am korean and I know both languages and lived in both countries.
I can tell you that korean is a lot easier to translate into english than japanese.
reasons why:
Korean-
1. The alphabet is broken down into consonants and vowels. So it is a lot easier to teach a “westerner” korean in the respect of read (not necessarily understanding the words). Though, there some vowels that are hard to differentiate, but aren’t difficult to remember.
2. There is only one alphabet used in the language. Well they also use traditional chinese alphabet (called hanmun), but it has been long phased out of used language. Though they still force students to learn it.
3. Korea isn’t as culturally integrated as japan is in the western world in term in ability to relate to the mentality of westerner. This is more towards the original topic of why the japanese received the nobles.
Japanese-
1. Though the alphabet is broken down into syllables there are exceptions to this and especially trying to translate western words that were already translated to japanese.
2. There are 3 alphabets that needs to understood in order to read effectively something that is written to an adult audience. Actually, there are 4 but romaji I don’t really consider because its japanese written in with roman characters (roman-ized). There is hiragana, katakana, and kanji.
3. In that there are 3 alphabets, its easier to differentiate between western/modern words and the common use words and traditional words, each of which has its own context. Simple put, more words that are able to be used in place of another word, but also able to change the tone of what is written.
4. in terms of grammar in both languages, they are almost identical in there basic sentence structure. Mandarin on the other hand, oddly enough, is more similar to the english basic structure.
In terms of the teacher himself. I think of him as just another average korean that hasn’t stepped outside of korean, and is just boasting about his korean pride just like everyone else in that country does. I’m sure that if anyone had spoken up that person would of been expelled. Most koreans don’t wish to know much of “the outside world” because “their” country is so great. Well thats the impression I got, from living there.
If the korean language is so great they wouldn’t have removed their Kanji. In the end the korean and japanese language still has roots from mandarin
read my comment above yours.
Gotta love the internet, its a whole new level of amateur hate mongering, in realtime and moving pictures and all.
Yeah, you can watch a ridiculous video with some random Korean guy hating on Japan, and then you can read through equally hateful comments trying to fit that Korean guy into a model to represent the entire nation of Korea. 悪循環だ!
It’s guys like this that Korean and Japanese can’t get along. What B.S.! These guys make the image of Korea worse and they have to guts to blame others for not understanding their “culture.” They’re making a fool out of all the innocent korean out there.
Exactly, and it’s the same on the Japanese side with groups like the uyoku dantai. I wish people would just realize that these extremely small minorities don’t represent the entire nation of people.
Holy cow lot of comments! I think this thing is starting to fade away though, Japan and Korea are having warmer ties, and it’s not as tense.
It would be nice though if Korea reintroduced Chinese characters into their written language. Sort of like how Japanese changed from exclusively Kanji to their syllabic form, and Kanji. I think Korea could do the same with Hangul and chinese characters, but they should simplify them a little.
Chinese and Japanese, and people in general would be more apt to learn this written language if it has some similarities with its neighbors.
This is one of the reasons why I don’t hang around with or make friends with Koreans and Chinese and I’m Japanese, in my experience you meet them and I’ve got 2 groups for them,
1. The ones that absolutely Hate Japan and Japnese everything. and 2. The ones that want to make friends with you because they’re into Japanese pop culture.
The 2nd category people made me feel like they wanted to be friends not because of Who I am as a person, but rather What I am so they have someone to just talk to about pop culture.
I’m glad you’ve convinced yourself that your discrimination is justified.
He’s mostly right, I can attest to the 2 groups thing, definitely. But there’s a 3rd who are neither and I’m friends with both Chinese and Koreans, and a bunch other asians as well.
Yeah, but those 2 groups he mentioned aren’t the only 2 groups, and they exist in every country in the world. There are Japanese who hate Americans (2ch) and there are Japanese who are obsessed with America. Does that mean that every Japanese person has to be narrowly confined to those two categories?
That’s what Inoue is arguing, but only to try to justify his own discriminatory attitude.
Alex, you seem to be falling into the same trap you mention by grouping all of 2ch into the Anti-American party.
“There are Japanese who hate Americans (2ch)”
I’m a 2channeler, I don’t hate americans…
Blanket statements like these remind me of fox news’ coverage of 4chan.
I didn’t mean to, but looking back at it now, I sure did. I should have written, (like some people on 2ch).
Logically, if Inoue is obviously Japanese, living in Korea, the two types of Koreans he is most likely to notice are the ones who hate him and the ones who love him, because these are the ones who will seek to interact with him.
He’s not likely to notice the person waiting quietly next to him to cross the road, who is a member of third group of Koreans who neither likes nor hates Japanese.
I’m sure it’s the same in London if you are Japanese. A lot of people in London don’t care if you are Japanese, they are just waiting for the same tube train. You won’t notice them.
so very true.
This really just sounds like a kid deprived of a price candy by the other kid. Not once, but in this case, twice.
Delutioned Koreans live in both the North and the South pasrt of the peninsular. Let me translate it into the correct romanisation of Hanguk-mal. Pyongshin seki dul, i nom kate, chot manhi mokulgoya. Korea is being ruined by these fake, pyongshin ball-less wankers. Shipal him and his high horse.
Give him some sexy Korean babes in bikinis and you got your self the Korean version of Dr. Gene Scott! I mean look at that blackboard! (Not the mention the insanity.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Scott
Normal Koreans wouldn’t give a damn about this guy and his point of view. He probably wants to get some kind of fame or use this to make some money or start a business with this. Don’t think that this one dude represents us all. hehe
I hate these nationalistic Korean dumbshit’s who sprout nonsense, the reason why Japan won 2 Nobel prizes for literature is because they have produced works which have been considered “timeless” so when Korea makes one they’ll be sure to give them the prize. An English teacher whose racist clearly doesn’t get that by learning another cultures literature your not suppose to be racist, hope one day this guy wakes up and realizes that literature no matter what language if it really is considered “timeless” can transcend any language look at “Shakespeare”.
Korean nationalism isn’t as strong as Indian nationalism in my experience. +100 years of persecution inside India makes things worse for enticing blind nationalism than a 36 years of persecution inside Korea.
Japanese people should have common sense first when they need to criticize Koreans. Japanese are as bad as Koreans, perhaps worse in some cases (Like their unquestionable blind devotion to America. Thank you, decades of LDP in the Tokyo Diet).