Interview with Arudou Debito: Talking about the new gaijin cards
June 15th, 2009 by James
Japan Podshow recently interviewed Arudou Debito of Debito.org:
The interview touches on a lot of topics that have been already brought up in other Debito interviews, such as the Otaru onsen case, being treated like a guest in Japan, and his beard. But there is one sort-of-new topic brought up: Debito’s fear that the Japanese government will use the IC chips in its new gaijin cards to track every foreigner (“like the aliens in Alien 2“).
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Say no to IC chipped gaijin cards!!! My fellow people. People around the world, Europe and especially in Japan are sleep walking into an Orwellian surveillence police state society. Remember, it is always easy to blame everything on minorities to create an us/them netality. Gaijins being the minority and with the government doing whatever it can to create fear will come with one BS law after an another aimed at stripping liberties away from gaijins. This trend needs to stop.
I got really depressed with the finger scan at Narita airport and now if the racist Japanese government wants gaijins to have an IC chipped gaijin card, thats more or less total enslavement by xenophobic Japan INC.
As a Japanese-European who have spent 50% of my life in Japan and the other outside of Japan. When asked about the xenohobic tendencies in Japan, I tend to be on the side with Debitto and say, yes, there is enormous amount of xenophic BS in Japan. The racism is insitutionalized. The police in Japan are racists! They enjoy gaijin hunting. Though I do not always agree with Debitto, I think it is long over due that someone in Japan stick their neck out and challenge the unfair, racist system.
Obviously there is racism in Europe too. Up here where i live in Scandinavia, there are almost daily reports about Muslim integration, no, everything is not just fine. We have problems too. However people have so much more awareness about discrimination and human rights here than in Japan and do not take whatever the authority say as granted.
Learn your rights, be critical to authority. Japan needs to let go of their xenophobic paranoid fortress mentality.
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Get off the racist soapbox already. What you are seeing is a tried and tested strategy for implementing possibly unpopular policies. The theory is that of how to boil a frog. Those who dream up such policies (as opposed to the morons who merely implement them) don’t give a *+`#?!? about anybody’s liberties (not even their own, but they don’t see that). This is the thin end of the wedge. It’s just the early stages of a longer-term plan. Watch how the UK is introducing the highly unpopular national ID card. Those who scream “xenophobia” will simply marginalize themselves and increase the likelihood of being ignored by the silent majority. What the majority need to realize is that they are next.
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So you mean making gaijins carry chipped gaijin cards is only the first step of a long term project to micro chip every person in Japan? Could be. I personally do not think there is anything wrong for non Japanese to demand the same rights as Japanese. If gaijins have to carry the micro chipped gaijin cards at all time then at least so should the Japanese then. Even better, scrap the thing called gaijin card which is xenophobic in itself.
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The UK Government has made no secret of its desire to introduce ID cards for EVERYONE. But even then, they’d be no obligation to actually carry the card, and certainly no tagging.
There are no such available public plans from the J-Gov. The J-Gov only has only announced plans for tagging foreigners. Anything else is just conjecture on your part. Do you really think the J-populace is going to accept electronic tagging when there are still no plans for ANY sort of ID for citizens?
What other policies has the J-Gov first foisted on foreigners before rolling it out to J-citizens? Fingerprinting? Still waiting. Compulsory ID? Nope. This is foreigner tagging, pure and simple. And it’s hardly surprising; while many countries require people to carry ID, Japan is unique(!) in requiring this only from foreigners.
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“while many countries require people to carry ID, Japan is unique(!) in requiring this only from foreigners.”
Nice try at Nihonjinron, but wrong. US green card holders are required to carry their green card on their person at all times. And they are required to show the card on demand by an immigration agent. Everywhere else in the world I have traveled I was told to keep my passport on me at all times, as the visa stamp was proof that I was in the country legally.
As far as I know, most countries require foreigners to be registered and keep proof of their visa status on their person at all times. It is just common sense.
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I know that in Sweden, Norway there is no such thing called gaijin card. They do not exist. I am sure it is like that in many European countries. So, from a Scandinavian perspective, I find this gaijin card to be outrageous, discriminatory, and Orwellian.
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It seems you are correct, Norway does not seem to need any card other than the tax ID card, however foreigners staying for 6 months or more must register with the national registry and get a registration number. If they move within Norway they have 8 days to report that.
http://www.uio.no/english/research/guests/guide/registering.html#national_registry
Sweden also does not have foreign registration cards; however ironically Swedes do have ID cards. Foreigners are supposedly going to get Swedish IDs starting this year, by not having IDs they were prevented from accessing some services which required one! Now that’s discriminatory IMHO:
http://www.thelocal.se/9435/20071217/
Registering and carrying ID cards “outrageous, discriminatory and Orwellian”? It seems Norway and Sweden, at least, disagree with that viewpoint.
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As aditional imformation
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YOu can argue that Sweden is racist. All I am saying is that there is no gaijin card in Sweden and Norway. Dig a little bit more and provide me links to gaijin cards.
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No gaijin cards in Scandinavia! Now, you can talk about Swedish porn if it makes you feel better or about the Al Qaida member currently living in Norway. All I am saying is that. There is no gaijin card in Scandinavia. From my opinion, things are much more leniant and much less of a right winged Orwellian police state than for instance Japan.
So Japan wants gaijins to carry around IC chipped gaijin cards at all time. Sounds something Hitler would think of with forcing Jews to wear their Start on their clothes.
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Ah, Godwin’s law at work! Thank you, Roger, for resurrecting that wonderfully inapt and over-the-top analogy from Debito’s article on the subject at hand.
So – no alien registration cards in Sweden, but there are national registration cards that all citizens carry! And they have to produce these cards as ID, and if you don’t have a card then you will have trouble opening bank accounts, or accessing them, or getting a driver’s license….
Who is putting the star on whose lapel?
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A National ID card is a ID card for ALL its citizens. Gaijin cards is for gaijins ONLY. Do you see the difference? Demanding gaijins to always carry a card which states that they are Aliens is what is Hitlerish about the gaijin card. The point of a gaijin card is to remind people that they are gaijins. If government demands some National ID then it at least should be the same for all the people living in that country. Better yet, just scrap this thing called National ID as its too Orwellian to begin with.
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Yes, the difference is loud and clear.
“Demanding gaijins to always carry a card which states that they are Aliens is what is Hitlerish about the gaijin card.”
I find if far worse to demand that all citizens carry an ID at all times. That level of state control over citizens is somewhat worrying. Not allowing foreigners access to those cards, and thereby interfering with their quality of life, is blatantly discriminatory.
Carrying an alien registration card in no way interferes with my, or any other foreigner’s, quality of life.
“The point of a gaijin card is to remind people that they are gaijins.”
*NEWS FLASH* – we ARE. I don’t need a card to remind me of that fact. I have never woken up in the morning thinking I am Japanese, then looked in my wallet and said “dammit, I’m a foreigner!” And I don’t think I ever will, as long as I am a foreigner in Japan.
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I understand your views and think they are reasonable but I disagree with the fact that I don’t think gaijins should have to carry around a gaijin card at all times. A driver’s license or any kind of ID should do just like a Japanese person.
I agree with your views of national ID. We are entering a more surveillence Orwellian future all over the world.
Here is a link of world’s worse surveillence police states.
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2009/jun/electronic-police-state-2008.pdf
Here is a link of what is happening in Europe now with it’s surveillence.
http://www.ecln.org/ECLN-statement-on-Stockholm-Programme-April-2009-eng.pdf
Debitto comes with awareness about IC chipped gaijin cards which in my view is good. If gaijin cards are to be chipped then gaijins should not have to be forced to carry them at all times. Why not just micro chip every gaijin up their ass when they enter Narita?
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If you think that way, why don’t you stick your neck out by talking to Japanese in Japanese.
Japanese people are ready to listen to you and have discussions with you if you don’t refuse to correct lies, if you don’t refuse Japanese comments, if you don’t curse Japan and Japanese behind Japanese back as Debito’s blog is doing.
I don’t see why some foreigners support, to borrow his apologist’s words, “Debito’s penchant for exaggeration and error”.
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Those are my words you are quoting Ponta. I’m afraid you once again demonstrate your poor grasp of English comprehension if you believe that anything I have written marks me out as an apologist for Debito. I despise hyperbole on all sides, yours as much as his.
I will suggest again to you that you find a native English speaker you trust well enough to read my comments to help clear up these misconceptions you seem to have. The alternative, as I mentioned before, is to conclude that you do understand what I have written but are happy to dishonestly misrepresent it. I prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt.
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ハリーさん。そんなにいうなら、日本語でどうぞ。
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No thank you.
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ハリーさん。
やれやれ、困ったものですな。
他人の英語力を云々するより、議論に参加されてはどうですか？
Roger さんにいったように、ぼくは、在日外国人の方々が権利の主張をするのは賛成です。どこの国でも少数弱者は差別を受けやすい。だから、声を出す人も必要でしょう。
が、しかし、有道氏のごとき嘘も間違いも訂正せず、日本・日本人を罵倒し、誤った情報を訂正することを拒否するようなブログの手法は、何の解決もせず、かえって日本人から嫌われ、外国人との間に亀裂をつくる、といっているのです。
そして、こうした有道氏に対する批判に”ヒステリカル”に反発しているだけでは、apologistと言わざる得ないでしょう、ハリーさん。
あなたの彼に対する「批判」の最大のものがせいぜい、「“Debito’s penchant for exaggeration and error」ではなかったでしょうか？
あなたは有道氏も批判しているというが、どこでそれをやっているのか、教えていただけますか？
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I argue that you are getting hysterical when you make claims, as you did back in March of this year, that Debito is:
“planting the seed of fear among Japanese for the foreign-born in Japan and the seed of fear for Japan and Japanese among foreign kids”.
When I called you ridiculous for making a similar claim back in September last year, you replied to me as follows:
“You have just contributed to promoting a negative image of gaijin with your emotionalism against a native Japanese who protect evil tactics Debito org is employing”
I found that to be a hysterical reaction on your part. Several months on, it remains an indefensible thing to say. In that same thread, as you continued to misrepresent my position, another commenter felt obliged to tell you:
“Harry is certainly allowed to criticize you, Ponta, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s pro-Debito.”
It’s not only me, then, who has explained to you that you have misunderstood my position. I find it rich that, months later, you ask me to explain myself in Japanese for your benefit only. When I contribute to a discussion in Japanese and am told I’ve missed the point, it doesn’t occur to me to ask that everything be explained instead in English. It’s my responsibility to see where I’ve gone wrong just as its your responsibility now.
You have specifically quoted me and said they are the words of an “apologist” for Debito. What makes your claim even more absurd is that the words you have quoted are when I referred to “Debito’s penchant for exaggeration and error”. If you have sufficient English comprehension to understand what that phrase means then you really ought to be able to conclude that they are not written by an “apologist” for Debito.
In fact, everything I have written to you over several exchanges on this site could stand as evidence that what you have said above is a gross misrepresentation. If you have the same intellectual honesty that you demand of others then you will take back your claim and offer an apology. If you don’t, then I may have to conclude that “Ponta has a penchant for exaggeration and error”. In case you are in any doubt, that wouldn’t make me an apologist for you.
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ハリーさん。
これのどこかヒステリカルなんですか？
いいですか。有道氏のブログは、外国人強姦犯人を事実を隠蔽しながら、日本人女性被害者を嘘つきよばわりしてまで、擁護キャンペーンをやっていたのですよ。
そうそう、議論の実質を論じるのではなく、ridiculousやhysterical などの形容詞をよく使う癖がありましたね。
うん。これは今でも正しいと思いますよ。あなたの感情的なコメントを羅列しましょうか？
ハリー氏は私を批判してよい。しかし、だからといって、新デビトとは限らない・・・ということですな。これは正しい。が、しかし、同時に、だからと言って親デビトでない、とも限らない。
事実、デビトを非難する論者にはムキになって、感情的な言辞を弄して火消しにまわろうとする。
そして、どこであなたが有道氏を批判しているのかもいわない。
ハリーさん、あなたどこで日本語で議論しましたか？ちょっとURLを教えて下さい。
なぜ、そう形容したかは、この一つ前のコメントで説明しました。
だから、この一つ前のコメントで説明しています。
・・・・というわけで、一つ前のコメントを見て下さい。
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I’m in the habit of using word like “ridiculous” when I see claims like yours which fit the description. I use the word “hysterical” when you respond to my criticisms by arguing that I am “promoting a negative image of gaijin” with my “emotionalism against a native Japanese”. Those words are fit for purpose.
It seems you are unwilling to offer an apology. I’m not sure if I should believe one anyway since you may recall we’ve been down this road before already when you wrote:
“Harry’s post make it clear he is well-intentioned man who is willing to help communication between Japanese and non-Japanese, and he see some flaws in Debito’s activism quite accurately. I misunderstood. Harry, I am sorry.”
That Ponta seemed like a reasonable man who would come down off his high horse from time to time. I’m not keen on this dishonest Ponta who says that I am an apologist for Debito and won’t retract the claim even though the statement above shows that he knew it wasn’t the case then and knows it isn’t true now.
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Harry, Ponta is asking your to show him specifically how and where you oppose Debito. You ignore this request and obstinately ask for an apology without disproving his claims. Further, you seem to be ignoring his current posts in general, referring to some conversation between the two of you from months ago without a link.
To me, at least at the moment, you seem to be the more “hysterical” or “ridiculous” person, since you seem overly defensive without anything to back up your claims and consistently ignore ponta’s questions.
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Weirdo,
I am happy to do so for you because you are not familiar with the exchanges we have had. Ponta doesn’t deserve a similar reply since he has already seen these statements cince most were made in direct reply to him. I’d also suggest that if Ponta wants to call me an apologist for Debito then the onus is on him to show how. However, here is what I have written about Debito for you to draw your own conclusions. All of the following can be found in exchanges on Japan Probe, Apologies to James for the repetition.
“Debito is a troubled man who claims to be an activist but has no activist agenda. He doesn’t act, he reacts. He wants an anti-discrimination law because he can then tell people what they are doing wrong instead of spending his time now telling people how to do things right. Do I hate Debito? Of course not. He’s an idiot because he doesn’t know what he is fighting for. He claims he doesn’t have time to reply to his critics but he’s the kind of small-minded guy who can’t resist wanting to respond to every last criticism. He has no sense of perspective which means he has loses all credibility.”
In reply to Ponta’s contention that I am promoting a negative image of gaijin by criticizing his claims:
“You seem determined to draw broad conclusions about groups based on one individual’s comments. That’s the kind of idiocy Debito deals in and by writing that comment you have made yourself look as ridiculous as him.”
On Debito’s “assistance”:
“I don’t think I overestimate Debito’s ‘helping hand’ because I’m very doubtful about the help he offers…One of my complaints about Debito is that he is almost completely unaware of the work done [by other foreign] communities unless the Japan Times happens to carry an article about it…When looking at the complaints people take to Debito, some of them seem like they can be solved by giving the complainer a hug while others look like they need serious legal firepower. One problem with Debito is that he isn’t really equipped properly to deal with either.”
On why Ponta is wrong to exaggerate Debito’s importance:
“I am quite confident that most Japanese people have never heard of Debito, let alone read his books and articles. Any Japanese who do bother are probably more internationalized than the average citizen because he writes almost exclusively in English. Consequently, they are unlikely to allow any distaste they might have for what he says to colour their views of foreigners in general…Can I recommend you simply ignore the man? If everyone who rushed to condemn him in the blogosphere would do so then fewer people would know he existed. All you are doing by attributing any significance to what he writes is helping to increasing his audience. Perhaps if Debito was starved of this attention and genuinely wanted to improve the position of foreigners in Japan then he would have to do something concrete which might be worth acknowledging. Or he might just carry on in his current vein in which case ignoring him would also make for a good long term plan.”
“I’m well aware of your efforts to counter Debito. Not least because you refer to them almost every time you mention the man which is an unhealthy amount and points towards a worrying obsession on your part. That is another reason why you should consider ignoring him. I know very well Debito’s penchant for exaggeration and error. I encountered him in usenet groups well before he appeared on your radar screen and, if I think it will affect his thinking or that of his audience, then I will take him to task. I’ve done so in the past and also quite recently. I don’t need any validation from you. What I won’t do is make outrageous claims about his influence on relations between Japanese and non-Japanese which you are prone to do. You insult the intelligent and reasonable members of both communities by doing so.”
“Why on earth would you imagine that I would be interested in setting up a separate website to correct Debito’s errors? That would be to confer on him an importance which he doesn’t have in my life and shouldn’t have in yours. The fact you suggest it indicates that you have missed my point. Don’t get bogged down in refuting such a minor figure. It’s your prerogative to work yourself up into a lather over Debito but I’m convinced that the relentless negativity it entails is causing you to lose all sense of proportion. Why let Debito set the agenda by constantly responding to him? Why not ignore him completely and set your own agenda? You’ll find ploughing your own furrow a much more rewarding enterprise. It should also help reaffirm your faith in others which appears to be wavering dangerously.”
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“I’d also suggest that if Ponta wants to call me an apologist for Debito then the onus is on him to show how”
I thought he did?
「そして、こうした有道氏に対する批判に”ヒステリカル”に反発しているだけでは、apologistと言わざる得ないでしょう、ハリーさん。」
I only skimmed through your writings on Debito, but “On why Ponta is wrong to exaggerate Debito’s importance:” caught my attention. I think that Ponta meant that Debito seems to be spreading exaggerations and sometimes lies about Japan on the English Blogosphere giving the impression that Japan is a worse place than it actually is. People who have never been to japan and rely on the internet for information on the country could get the wrong or exaggerated impression of Japan spreading the seeds of further misunderstanding and hatred, and thus should be somehow countered. Or…at least that’s the impression I got from Ponta’s posts, correct me if I’m wrong.
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Weirdo,
I hope that if you could be bothered to plough through that lot above then you will have a better idea of why I have taken offence. Ponta hasn’t been able to point directly to anything I have written which justifies his contention that I am an apologist for Debito. The reason for that is, simply, I have written nothing of the sort.
Ponta is unhappy that I’m unwilling to accept unreservedly all his criticisms of Debito. He appears to believe that the way to counter Debito’s exaggeration is through his own exaggeration. I think that is a grave error because the only lasting way to counter a dishonest argument is through the truth.
Ponta also is concerned that more people are not as upset as he is himself about the claims Debito makes. In order to generate more outrage, he would have people believe that Debito’s writings are “promoting a negative image of gaijin in Japan”. This brings us to your point and its one I’ve addressed several times in exchanges with Ponta. I’ll repeat only one example however. This is from last September:
“Debito is not a major national figure and remains largely unknown to the vast majority of Japanese citizens. He is also a white and white people make up a small minority of Japan’s foreign population. It is unlikely, for instance, that anything he says or does impacts particularly on people’s impressions of Koreans or Chinese in Japan. By making your statement, you are inflating Debito’s importance and influence to absurd levels…
…It is one thing to say that Debito stirs up hostility among Japanese people. It is another to say that this spreads to hostility towards foreigners in general and a separate claim again to say that the level of hostility is such that it affects how the whole Japanese population views foreigners. You appear to make all three claims without realizing the different levels of alarmism they imply.
Take the example of Governor Ishihara. Many foreigners, rightly or wrongly, believe him to be unsympathetic to their situation. When he coins a bon mot about foreigners which causes offence, it’s possible that someone might claim that he was turning foreign opinion against Japan. He’s a national figure after all. In truth, though, if it has any impact at all it is probably just to reduce people’s opinion of Ishihara himself or, at a pinch, to damage the international reputation of Japanese politicians. Ishihara is not an insignificant figure but the broader effect of his various gaffes is really not that profound. I think you underestimate the intelligence of Japanese people if you assume they will somehow be more affected by the far lower profile activities of Arudou Debito.
It’s almost as if you feel you have an internal ‘gaijin image seismometer’ such that when Debito does something you don’t like, you want to issue a tsunami warning. I think perhaps a recalibration is in order. Arguably, Debito has no more lasting impact on Japan’s emotional landscape than I have on it’s physical landscape when I trip over the kotatsu and land heavily on the floor.”
It has been pointed out to Ponta by others (which I quoted earlier) that when I write such criticisms, I’m certainly not defending Debito. He appeared to accept that point at the time and apologized (also posted earlier). However, when he continued to make his exaggerated claims and I once more pressed him not to do so, he reverted to his original position that I must be defending Debito.
I don’t even disagree with the general comment Ponta made to Roger in this thread. What I do object to is that he has went on to quote my words, which are actually critical of Debito, and then had the gall to label me an apologist for the man.
Ponta demands great accuracy from others so I think we are entitled to expect the same from him.
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ハリーさん。
ロジャーさんのところに回答は書いてあります。
ただ、触れていない論点だけ、簡単に書いておきましょう。
有道氏のブログが例えば、外国人強姦犯人を事実を意図的に隠蔽しながら、日本人女性被害者の実名を公開して、嘘つきよばわりしたり、そのほか日本人・日本に対する罵倒や、誤った情報を与えたりしても、すべての日本人が外人に対して恐怖心を抱くとは限らないでしょう。しかし、そうした傾向を促進するとはいえるでしょう。
これは以前にも言ったように思いますが・・・・
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ハリーさん。
そういえば、以前にも議論に招待しましたね。
http://pontasmemorandum.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post.html
日本人女性の痴漢被害者が被害を受けたとの証言を疑ぐる趣旨のコメントに対して、日本人準強姦被害者を嘘つきと言わざる得ない、と、被告人に不利な事実を隠蔽し、未だ釈明もしていないグループについて言及し、それがときたま有道氏のグループだったのでーーー私は氏の名前を挙げませんでしたけどーーー血相を抱えて、私を抑制しにきたときですよ。
今回ののように彼にimportance を与えてしまうような、インタビューにも、同じようにクレームを出したのかしら？
好意的だから出さなかったのかしら？
いずれにせよ、ハリーさんは来なかった。残念でした。
有道氏のブログを批判するために親衛隊のような人達が実質的な議論をしないで、ぼくを罵倒しに来るーーーこうした嫌がらせは初めてではないですけどーーーし、どうも議論が些末なので、今回もぼくの方のブログへも招待しておきます。
議論したいんならちゃんとやりましょう。
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You’ve made your false claim about my views on this site. If you intend to make amends then you also should do so on this site.
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それは結構ですよ、他の方に迷惑がかからなければね。
あなたが有道氏のapologist だと暗示した理由はすでに書きました。Comment by ponta
2009-06-16 19:04:17
それに対して反論してください。
それと質問にも答えて下さいね。
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http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=9489
ついでにここでの議論も思い出して下さいね。
有道氏の批判がでるとーーーぼくは、有道氏のひどく誤った引用のしかたを指摘しましたComment by ponta
2009-03-27 23:48:14ーーーその後、なぜか登場して、批判を抑止しようとするハリー氏。Comment by Harry
2009-03-31 03:37:07
以前の議論を蒸し返すハリー氏。
批判が出ると、彼のブログを取り上げるとimportance を与えるから、無視しなさい、と推奨するのに、それでいて、彼を取り上げる好意的なインタビューの出現には無頓着な、ハリー氏。
情報提供や有道氏らの誤謬を訂正するサイトを提案は無視するハリー氏
有道氏を批判する私に、カップヌードル云々など感情的な言辞を弄するハリー氏・（・・これだけではないですが・・・）
そして、このスレッドでは、
ハリー氏の名前も出さないで、氏を暗示して、氏がデビト氏のapologistという主張は間違っているから謝罪せよ、と有道氏のブログを批判する私に要求しながら、有道氏の誤った手法、あるいは、強姦事件、その他には粘着しないハリー氏。
いつも中途半場で終わってしまって、私が有道氏のブログなどを暗にでも批判する度に血相をかかえてでてこられるのも、非生産的なので、ちゃんとやりましょう。
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ハリーさん、何度も蒸し返してもしょうがないので、論点を整理しておきましょう。
１）私は、例えば、外国人強姦犯人の裁判について、被告人に不利な事実を意図的に隠避し、また、日本人女性被害者の実名を公表し、さらに、日本人女性被害者がうそを言っている、とまでして、外国人の人権擁護の名目でキャンペーンをし、いまだ釈明もしていないような在日外人、及び、在日外国出身者の活動は日本人に在日外人に対して恐怖心を植え付ける、と考える。
ハリーさんはそんなことない、という。
２-a)石原都知事は法律知識が足りない、失策が多いなどと一般論をいいながら、石原氏の失言を明確に、あるいは暗に、あるいは、間接的に批判すると、そうして彼に注目を与えたり、批判したりすることは、彼の株を上げてしまうから、むしろ、無視しろ、というのは、そうした批判を抑制するのと等しく、また、そうした批判が出る度に必死に批判活動を抑制しようとする人物は彼のapologist（同然）だ、と、同じように、有道氏について、一般的な批判をしながらも、有道氏の手法を暗にあるいは、明確に批判する活動を抑制する論者は、彼のapologistと言わざる得ない、と私は考える。
ハリー氏は、無視せよ派であり、批判活動否定派、ないし、妨害派のように思える。
なお、ハリー氏は、有道氏を非難することなく取り上げた、Japan PodshowやJapanProbeには、無視しろ、とは抗議していない。
2-b)さらに、ハリー氏は、有道氏のブログなどを非難することは、彼の意義を高めてしまうと考える。
私は、彼に正当な批判を浴びせることは、彼にふさわしい評価を与えると考える。なお、不当な批判ならその不当な批判をしたひとの評価が下がるだけの話である。
3-a ）さらに、私が、ハリー氏の名前は出さないものの、暗に彼を有道氏のapogisitである、と形容したことに関して、ハリー氏は数度にわたって、私に謝罪を求めている。
私は、2-a)などで記した理由により、記述は正当なものである、と考えている。
3-b)なお、例えば、ハリー氏は「you are busy stocking up on Nissin cup noodles and House Food curry in preparation for the coming clash of civilizations unleashed by a bumbler from Hokkaido」などと私に関して全く根拠のない間違った記述をしているものの謝罪をしていない。
私は（３）のような応酬は非生産的であり、ハリー氏がこうした些末なことにこだわることで、再び私の有道氏に関する批判を抑制しようとしているのではないか、と正直なところ、疑っている。
ーーーーこんな感じでしょうか？私に誤解があれば指摘してください。
また、でていない論点があれば、申し述べて下さい。相違点を明らかにしましょう・・・・私が有道氏に言及する度に、同じ事を繰り返してもしょうがないですから。
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ハリーさんや他の読者のために、jason さんの他でのコメントを引用しておきましょう。
なお、二つ目のコメントは不適切として、削除されています。
ハリーさんのお友達でしょうか？ーーーそんなことはないですよね。
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Uh oh….its irrational vendetta time again.
Ponta you make it sound like there are zero self-respecting Japanese people who would do anything except loathe their fellow citizen debito and his style. If that is your opinion, it is incorrect.
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It’s not my opinion, leitmotiv.
is it irrational vendetta time again,Letimotive?
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I hear you loud and clear Ponta. You are probably right, I should maybe go to a Japanese web page and write my opinions in Japanese. It’s just that reading English is easier for me and this happens to be an English web page which I enjoy coming to, hence I voice my opinions in English.
On this web page though I might come across as someone who has lots of anger towards Japan but that is not really the case. I really do like Japan a lot. I enjoy visitng the place and I enjoy living there. I was born and raised in Japan so I concider Japan to be my home country. And because I do like Japan I also have strong opinions about Japan. Though Japan is a good place for me, I also see many things which can be done to improve the country and one of them in my opinion is to let go of the xenophobia which is in my view much stronger in Japan than say for instance in Scandinavia.
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ハリーさん
相手に「馬鹿」という人が、なんでそんな言葉を使うの？と聞かれて、「お前がその言葉に適合するし、そして、お前がいったようなことを言う人にはヒステリー！」って叫んでしまう癖があるんだああああ！」って、これ説明になっていませんよ、ハリーさん。
日本の警察や裁判所についての必要以上に悪を誇張したり、誤った情報を与えれば、祖国の制度や日本の制度にも詳しくない、外国出身の若者にに日本での生活に恐怖心を植え付けるでしょうし、外国人強姦犯人を意図的に事実を隠蔽して、日本人被害者女性の実名まで公表し、さらに嘘つきよばわりするようなブログを日本人の青少年に恐怖感を植え付ける、と私は考える。
あなたが違うと思えば、事実が違うのか、恐怖心を植え付けないと考えるならその論拠をいえばいいわけです。
そのように当該ブログを批判すると「ヒステリー！！！」などと議論になっていないような感情表現では、外人のイメージを損ねますよ、と言っている。いや、損ねない、というなら、「損ねない」と言えばいい。
そりゃあ、そうでしょう。
それ以降のあなたの感情的論述をみれば・・・羅列すべきですか？
もし、あなたがご自身の言葉に誠実であるならば、標的を間違っている。
あなたは、Debito’s penchant for exaggeration and error”と有道氏のブログの致命的欠陥を認識するものの、彼を取り上げることは彼に重要性を与えることだから、よくない、というお立場でしょう。
で、あれば、例えば、Japan Podshowが彼を取り上げたとき、「おいおい、あんな誇張と誤謬だらけのことをいう奴を取り上げるのは、よくないよ」と向こうにいうべきでした。
それもしない。
インタービューでの誤謬も取り上げない。
やるのは、有道氏のブログを批判するたびにでてきて、感情的な言葉を吐くだけ。
どこで、批判しているか、という問いにも答えない。（ついでに、どこで日本語で議論したのか、という問いにも答えていませんけど、どこでしたっけ？）
ぼくは以前に、有道氏のような排外的で、嘘や誤解を与える情報を与えたり、その訂正を拒否するブログではなく、在日外人さんに役立つ情報を提供したり、議論するサイトを作ったらどうですか？ぼくは、お手伝いしますよ、という趣旨のことをいった。
それにも乗ってこない。
（因みに、ハリーさんにやる気があればぼくはいまでもお手伝いしますよ。「○○ハリーさんとニコニコpontaさんの在日外人に優しいウェッブ、とか、なんとかというタイトルで、サブタイトルには、反対意見歓迎、ハリーさんがときどき怒りますけど、ブロックはしません、とかなんとか、書いて・・・・英語の下手なpontaくんと、日本語が書けないハリーさんが協力して）
あれ以降、こうした事情から、その言葉とは裏腹に、有道氏の手法を間接的に支持している、と思わざる得ない。
Japan soc も取り上げています。
ここでAlex氏やKen Y-N氏らが正当な批判をしている。
こうした正当な批判があれば、ぼくは安心する。
ところが、祖国の制度や実態のこともあまり知らない、日本のこともあまり知らない有道氏のブログの読者の若者が、そもそももっていただろう日本に対する偏見と相俟って、orientalismの教材にしたいようなコメントもでてくる。
相変わらず親衛隊のような人もいるようですが、ハリーさんがそこまでなっているとは思いません。
どうです？ハリーとポンタの楽しいウェブーー在日外人さんのための情報と議論の場ーー作って見ませんか？英語が下手なポンタと日本語が書けないハリーの名コンビじゃないですかね？ 外国人参政権や重国籍、賃貸差別の問題など、嘘コメントの訂正も拒否するブログじゃ、適切な情報はえられないでしょう。
それとも、こうした有道氏の手法に対する批判がでるたびに、「ヒステリー、バーカ」と罵倒し続けますか？
そういえば、ハリー氏を出人氏のapologisitと暗示したことについて、ひどく憤慨され、謝罪をしてもらいたいようですね。
結構、あなたが、誠実に私の問いに答え、そうでないと証明していただければ、謝罪しましょう。（ところで、あなたがした私に対する数々の誤った形容についても謝罪するおつもりなのかしら？）
Roger
I am fully aware that you like Japan. And I think people like you should speak up, talk to Japanese in Japanese, and have fierce but rational discussions with them. That is the only way Japan can change as you hope.
I cannot speak about Scandinavia because I don’t know much about it, but reading news articles about Europe and the U.S. I don’t think the xenophobia is much stronger in Japan than in Europe and the U.S. Reading an article, for instance, about how Brits in a town with little history of accepting immigrants, I find the similar mixed feeling among the local people toward immigrants/foreingers. And there are some European countries that seem much worse than Japan in veiw of xenophobia.
Or it might be that they are applles and oranges. Their histories of immigration are different.
My opinion is that it is often useless to talk about Europe in general and compare it with Japan and claim which is better, Japan is “unique” etc.
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You have a problem with my tone. I have a problem with yours and we’ve both written about this before. Perhaps it’s worth going into this in a little more detail.
The use of the word “ridiculous” in English in no way compares with the use of the word 馬鹿 in Japanese. In that, you are simply mistaken. The word “idiot” could be said to be pejorative to the same degree as 馬鹿 and I did indeed use the word “idiot”. However, I didn’t use it to refer to you, I used it to refer to Debito. Do you think calling someone 馬鹿 makes you their apologist?
I can understand how that mistake might be an easy one to make but I don’t think even you seriously entertain the idea that the use of the word “ridiculous” implies “お前”.
I called your claims “hysterical”, however, I notice that you sometimes render the word as ヒステリカル which you link to ヒステリー and that leads me to believe that you have in mind the primary uses of those words in Japanese rather than the way I have used the word. My use, a common one in English, is similar to the way you use “emotionalism” as an accusation against me. We are doing nothing different here. There is no claim you can safely make against my use of the word that you wouldn’t be obliged to concede over your use of “emotionalism”.
My tone is certainly critical of some of your positions but if you think all I have done is claim you run around screaming then you have entirely misunderstood my tone as well as my points.
Yes, we do disagree about the impact of Debito’s ramblings. I first took you to task over the effect you claimed he was having on the way Japanese think of foreigners and I’ll repeat for the second time in this thread why I think you are wrong:
“Debito is not a major national figure and remains largely unknown to the vast majority of Japanese citizens. He is also a white and white people make up a small minority of Japan’s foreign population. It is unlikely, for instance, that anything he says or does impacts particularly on people’s impressions of Koreans or Chinese in Japan. By making your statement, you are inflating Debito’s importance and influence to absurd levels…
“…It is one thing to say that Debito stirs up hostility among Japanese people. It is another to say that this spreads to hostility towards foreigners in general and a separate claim again to say that the level of hostility is such that it affects how the whole Japanese population views foreigners. You appear to make all three claims without realizing the different levels of alarmism they imply.
“Take the example of Governor Ishihara. Many foreigners, rightly or wrongly, believe him to be unsympathetic to their situation. When he coins a bon mot about foreigners which causes offence, it’s possible that someone might claim that he was turning foreign opinion against Japan. He’s a national figure after all. In truth, though, if it has any impact at all it is probably just to reduce people’s opinion of Ishihara himself or, at a pinch, to damage the international reputation of Japanese politicians. Ishihara is not an insignificant figure but the broader effect of his various gaffes is really not that profound. I think you underestimate the intelligence of Japanese people if you assume they will somehow be more affected by the far lower profile activities of Arudou Debito.”
You are free to be outraged by Debito and what he writes but when you try to create the impression that he is a significant influence on how Japanese nationals view foreigners then I will beg to differ. I know you feel strongly but I don’t believe you are right. I think your approach does nothing to undermine Debito but instead lends him credibility which he doesn’t deserve. I have made this point before and, if you look back, you’ll see that others have made it to you also. Especially when you dragged his name unnecessarily into arguments in other threads. Is everyone who tells you that an apologist for Debito?
You asked for a URL pointing to debates I’ve had in Japanese. Goodness, that made me smile. Does everyone really live their lives these days entirely in public on the internet that you automatically ask for a URL? A large part of my life in Japan was lived before there was an affordable word processor let alone the PC and the internet. Have you ever used a Japanese typewriter? I couldn’t master it so much of my correspondence is handwritten. Even if you could handle a typewriter, it probably slowed you down but I was lucky to have some friends who were prepared to use them so I wouldn’t have to decipher their handwriting. However that put the onus on me to understand what they wrote. In the same way, you are participating in a an English language forum and the onus is on you to stand your ground and understand what you are being told. But when your English skills are tested or called into question, you ask for a Japanese translation and revert to writing in Japanese. I have no respect for your decision to do that.
Likewise, it is an utter disgrace that instead of unreservedly apologizing for your misrepresentation of my position you demand I help you as “proof” that I am not an apologist for Debito. I was prepared to believe other commenters when they said you were well-meaning but I’m afraid your continual unsubstantiated accusations argue otherwise. Are you still looking through everything I have written hoping to find something to prove your case? You won’t find it and I think you know that very well.
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あらら、こっちにあったのか。
。
これについても何度も書きましたが、私は、有道氏のブログによって日本全国民が外人嫌いになるとは言っていません。しかし、planting the seed of fear と言っている。
というのがハリーさんのご意見であるにもかかわらず、有道氏を暗にでも批判するコメントがでた場合には、無視しろと、執拗に食い下がりながら、有道氏を好意的に扱ったインタビューには無頓着である。ここがおかしい。
石原知事の例はいい例ですね。石原の失言の度に批判することは必要でしょう。批判をしないで、、彼の誤謬に、スポットライトをあてるのはやめろ、というのもいかがなものか？
しかし、普通の日本人が知ったらいい感じはしないでしょうね。その理由はあげる必要もありませんよね。
ここが相違点ですね。
私は、彼のブログを正当に批判することで彼のimportanceやsiginificanceやcredibility が低下すると考えます。例えば、結果的にどれだけ影響力があるかは別にしても、仮に石原氏が失言すれば、それは批判されて然るべきでしょう。注目して、正当な批判をすると、importance やcredibility が増す、というのは理に合わない。
そして、彼が隠蔽した事実を知らない外国人も現におり、今回も着目されている。彼は海外特派員に引用もされている。
石原氏の失言に対する批判について、「そうして彼に注目することは、彼の株を上げるから、無視しろ」として、その批判活動打ち消そうとするのは、石原氏のapologistの推定はうけるでしょう。それが感情的であったり、批判を暗示しただけでも登場すればなおさらです。
これについては、本コメントでも理由は述べましたし、他のコメントでも述べていますので、それについては反論してください。
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RFID Blocking Wallets/Passport Holders:
http://www.difrwear.com/
They ship internationally, too.
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Looks interesting, Tom. Have you bought one? Do they work?
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I have both the passport holder and the wallet. They work great, although the leather isn’t of the highest quality. Then again, these things are only like $20. It’s a good way to allow you to still use RFID as what it was intended for without the consequences of potential phishing. Walking around with your stuff covered in tinfoil makes you look like a bit of a looney, and destroying the RFID defeats the purpose of certain devices, such as fast check-out with credit cards. With them closed, the RFID cannot be read. Once you open them, they can be scanned freely, so it’s fairly hassle-free.
I actually found these guys out from the 2600 magazine (www.2600.com). They held a demonstration about a year or so ago and gave free wallets to everyone. To be brutally honest, the chances of being scanned with an RFID scanner is slim to none. It isn’t taking off like other phishing methods, but I’d rather err on the side of caution, personally.
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I have an RFID blocking wallet out of necessity (employer forced it on us because of the sensitivity of our employee IDs). What I have works very, very well. Made by the same people who make the RFID chips – they really know what they’re doing!
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That was a very interesting interview. From all of the anecdotes / criticisms aimed at the guy, I’d imagined him as more combative and arrogant. To his credit though, he was rather self-deprecating, and certainly intelligent. Thanks for posting this!
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yes, he is rather intelligent and he says and does things for us foreigners – things that we don`t want to or don`t know how to. yes, he goes off on tangents but he is one of the good guys.
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haha, same here, i always spelled his name “Debilo”
this interview is great, i have now a totally reversed opinion of Debito.
it’s great to see someone standing up against prejudices and discrimination of (naturalized) foreigners in japan.
that’s probably exactly what japan was missing the whole time.
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very interesting interview!
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Thanks for posting this story – helps make the hours it took to edit it worthwhile!
It’s been interesting to read various people’s reactions to it, especially over on Japan Soc.
My apologies for the pretty bad interview technique I employed. Live and learn…
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What an idiot. If he actually spent as much time fighting for something worthwhile, then he might be of some value.
Maybe he should return to his own country and do something about the far more serious discrimination there.
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He is Japanese, this IS his own country, right?
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No. He has a Japanese passport, he’s not Japanese. Two very different things.
Debito needs to study a little sociology. He may be moderately articulate, but he’s not very intelligent.
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He has a Japanese passport, he’s not Japanese
Do you have trouble with basic logic?
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I think Eddie meant japanese in terms of Ethnicity, he can be a japan citizen but not a Japanese i guess.i personally agreed with what Eddie Wrote, obviously America has a serious problem regards to racial discrimination. Plus, this guy don’t even behaves like a japanese at all…i listened to what he said and for the past 20+ years he has been spending his life in Japan and having himself to be called ‘Japanese’, he sure has no interest nor understanding toward culture and society in Japan. Well, i do agree with what he said on his colleague dating his wife and i think that it’s a bit too much and at the same time, i think it’s a bit over-exaggerated as well but nevertheless, to me, he ’s just an arrogant guy who never try to understand or listen to others furthermore, obviously he only fancy those who supported him and has never evaluated what he has done. No matter he has a Japan Passport or not, in the end, he still remains as a typical American in japan who does nothing but complaint.
Unlike debito-san, i do regard Mr. Mansour as a japanese for what he did, he in fact did naturalize himself not only in terms of ‘documents’ as well as culture and society in Japan.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=7748
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Debito has no interest or understanding of Japanese culture and society? Ohh really? And how do you know this?
For some reason Debito rubs you the wrong way. Fine. But your idea of what it means to be Japanese are myopic.
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“Debito has no interest or understanding of Japanese culture and society? Ohh really? And how do you know this? ”
Just read what the man writes and listen to what he says. He rejects any viewpoint or argument that does not agree with his own out-of-hand. His own viewpoint is unmistakably far-left-wing American. As he is American born and raised that is to a point understandable. The problem is that he refuses to consider any point of reference other than that. Everything to him has to be framed in that context, there is no other valid one. He explicitly refuses to consider cultural differences in the equation, and has stated he doesn’t believe in such a thing as “culture” defining a group (even as he mangled the meaning of culture to nothing more than taste in music or the arts).
His problem is compounded by the fact he really does not even understand the culture and background of the country of his birth. That, too, has been made clear in his writings. He has expressed amazement, for example, at the fact miscegenation laws existed in the 1960s – something anyone with even a basic knowledge of the US civil rights movement would know, but something he only stumbled across last year. Heck, most of us born back then only have to look on the original copies of our birth certificates – “race of father” and “race of mother” were mandatory fields on the form (fields not included on newer copies of my birth certificate).
Or for a more nuts-and-bolts issue, listen to his Japanese. For someone who has been in Japan for 20 years, and is a citizen, it is shockingly bad. He replaces accuracy with speed and still pronounces vowels as they would be pronounced in English. Native Japanese speakers I know who have talked to him in Japanese always say they have difficulty understanding him as he mispronounces words while jabbering away at light speed with bad grammar to boot. Not surprising, one of the keys to learning a language is mimicking what you hear – which requires “listening to others”, something he has proven time and again to be incapable of doing.
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His own viewpoint is unmistakably far-left-wing American.
Oh please…..what does that Fox News term even mean? Ask 100 americans what it means and you will get 150 different answers. In your above screed it means precisely “sees things differently than you personally” – and not more.
And his knowledge of specific eras of racist american law is allegedly not up to your personal standards (along with that of huge swathes of US population). Yes….this is excellent demonstration that everything debito says or does has zero legitimacy.
Or for a more nuts-and-bolts issue, listen to his Japanese
…..that comment is right on time, isnt it?. Never over-looked. Nothing to do with above video of course, but right on time and always relevant. But I note you neglected to add the standard disparaging comments of his martial history as further proof that everything he says or does is wrong, 100% dismissable, and possibly evil. Limited time?
Above screed about inherently evil debito can be safely filed along with with similar ponta comments – under “irrational vendetta” by self-appointed Japan culture vulture.
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You need to grow about 2 inches taller, my point obviously flew right over your head. Not surprising, that seems to be your “recurring theme”.
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“His own viewpoint is unmistakably far-left-wing American. ”
I find this comment insulting as a left wing American.
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Again,Irrational and uncivilized comment, leitmotiv.
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‘your idea of what it means to be Japanese are myopic.’
This infact has nothing to with being myopic or not. Yes, u can have your own lifestyle no matter where u are but forcing others to change their culture and lifestyle just for u is indeed unacceptable for me. Plus, my point is not about how japanese Debito is but it’s about adaptation and understanding such as the short clip of Mr. Mansour.
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Eddie, it seems that race means everything to you. That kind of thinking is the preserve of racists.
Try telling a Japanese-American that even though they hold an American passport, they’re not American, and see how far you get.
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“Try telling a Japanese-American that even though they hold an American passport, they’re not American, and see how far you get.”
We Japanese-Americans are “American when it comes to nationality, but we aren’t really “American” ethnically. The only ethnically American people are the indigenous north Americans that were here before the vikings and other Europeans came.
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Well, we can’t blame the gaijin for writing such statement as it’s obviouse that there’s a huge difference between mentality of Asians and Gaijin. Asians are clear about the difference between nationality and ethnicity. Unlike Asians, gaijin would only know about nationality. Even Debito-san doesn’t know about that after staying in Japan for such a long time. I can see that he has been regarding himself as a Japanese as he hold the Japanese Passport but the fact is that, he’s not a japanese but he’s a Japan citizen.
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Debito just wants a piece of the racism pie I’m afraid. I’m not entirely sure why though, maybe it makes him feel important.
He wouldn’t survive a day as a black / brown man in England or America. He’d be complaining so much that he’d go crazy.
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Just wrap you IC card in tinfoil or whatever and you’ll be fine. If you have any tinfoil left over, you can make a hat and stick it on your head.
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Well, my passport already has RFID, the NEXUS card I want has RFID, what’s one more little chip that’s going to placate some politician and provide nothing but a hunk of data that’s absolutely useless to anyone outside the tourism industry?
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You know, if they could integrate with the SUICA card in some fashion, it would probably be okay.
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Well of course, the willingness of police to pick up any white person without a card is a problem…
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“The interview touches on a lot of topics that have been already brought up in other Debito interviews, such as the Otaru onsen case”
Gawd, he’s still going on about that? Did he mention the part about how he drove hours out of his way in his quest to be discriminated against? Or how he deliberately dragged his pre-school-aged kids along on his little stunt so they could be discriminated against as well? Or how he rubbed their noses in it with his ““Okay kids. We’re being ejected from the premises. For reasons we were born with.” (direct quote, according to the “man” himself, from his book).
No, I don’t suppose he did mention any of that. Or anything he might have done since then, such as… hold on… it will come to me….
(draws complete blank)
So, what has he done, aside from Otaru?
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Before sounding like an idiot for raving about a technology (RFID) that is much less of a threat to privacy than … say his cellphone he could have used his time to read some wiki articles about this topic.
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From what i have read and heard from Debito–he simply wants Japan to stop discriminating. So when people say things like–it is the japanese way, or foreigners are merely guests, he disregards those out of hand.
You do not?
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I take it this was in response to my post?
“he simply wants Japan to stop discriminating.”
I am not so sure – if there was no discrimination at all in Japan he’d either have to find something else to rant about or be out of work. He has a vested interest in making Japan and Japanese seem more racist than it/they are. Look at his “rogue’s gallery” – his claim has always been that these signs exist and their number is growing. Yet he produces no proof that the number is actually growing. The number of photos on his list is, yes. But that does not equate to “Japanese-only signs are a growing phenomenon”. Not without data showing that previously there were no such signs, but there are now such that the total number of such signs is increasing over time.
Let’s put it this way: You grow up in a small town in Illinois (an example). There is one Asian person living in your town. One day you go to a different town that you have never visited before, and see a different Asian person. If you think “Wow, the Asian population of Illinois has increased by 200%!” you would very likely be mistaken. The number of Asian residents of Illinois that you personally are aware of has increased by 200%, but this does not mean that the entire Asian population of Illinois has increased by that amount. In fact, the Asian population of Illinois may be decreasing, we don’t know. The fact you now know of two Asians in the state whereas yesterday you only knew of one means one thing and one thing only – you now know there is more than one Asian in Illinois. No more, no less.
However, this has always been Debito’s argument: there was a sign in Otaru that said “Japanese only”. Someone sent him a photo of a similar sign in Gunma. Now he knows of two such signs – clearly the problem is spreading across Japan, and it all started in Otaru (yes, he actually made that claim). Some of the shops in his “Rogues Gallery” had signs that were just badly worded, such as the knife shop in Akihabara that had a sign that seemed discriminatory when in reality the problem was that Japanese law only allows sales of knives, pepper sprays etc. to those residing in Japan – sales to foreigners were not a problem, as long as they lived in Japan. Since Akihabara is such a huge tourist area, they were trying (badly) to say that they could not sell to foreign tourists. Debito knew this, and he personally called them and got them to put up a new sign properly stating what they needed to convey. They’re still in his “Rogues Gallery”. Well, actually, he put them in the “Rogues Gallery” after he solved their “problem”.
Yes, that’s right, intent matters not. Mending one’s ways matters not. “Offenders” must be publicly flagellated for all eternity….
“So when people say things like–it is the japanese way, or foreigners are merely guests, he disregards those out of hand. ”
Cop-outs like those should be disregarded. But, like anything, if you are trying to solve a problem you need to understand why the problem occurred. If you say “nothing can be done, it is the Japanese way” then yes, you’re screwed. That is not an argument, it is an excuse. But if you say things like:
- The Japanese are, broadly speaking, a culturally homogenous group that severely limited its contacts with the rest of the world for a couple of centuries
- The Japanese are also an island people, and that creates certain well-documented social and cultural phenomenon that tend to reinforce a sense of “us” and “them”
- Japanese culture tends to place a lot of value on the group and less on individuality. This is changing with the younger generation, especially in metropolitan areas but even Japanese can have trouble with being accepted if they move from one area to another within Japan.
you are now attempting to reach an understanding of who the Japanese are and where they come from. You’ve got to understand and deal with the root causes of the mindset in order to try to manipulate the visible manifestations of it (discrimination). Debito won’t. He has pooh-poohed the “island people” argument as “apologist”, and denied such a thing exists. That would come as quite a surprise to any sociologist or cultural anthropologist, either of whom could produce reams of case studies and academic research on the topic. Doesn’t matter – it goes against what Debito wants to believe, therefore it is to be dismissed out of hand.
Or, to give another example: one of Debito’s “goals” is a universal anti-discrimination law. Setting aside for the moment the fact he has never clearly stated exactly what such a law should say, the fact is there are already several anti-discrimination laws on the books (a fact he keeps publicly denying). The problem is enforcement. If one is wronged, it is up to the victim to sue the offender in civil court. There is no Japanese HUD or FHA that you can report a discriminatory landlord to and that will then take legal action on behalf of victims. There is, however, a housing law that is squarely on the renter’s side. If a would-be renter is discriminated against and sues, they will very likely win.
However, the victim must instigate the court case, hire lawyers etc. While they will be recouped for costs when they win, it is still a lot of hassle. And even when they win, Japanese law tends to have very weak penalties. The fines are hardly worthy of the term, and don’t seem to be much of a deterrent. Offenders can play the odds – not many people are going to be bothered suing them, as the costs of doing so are too high and the rewards too small. And even if the offender is caught, the punishment is light and there is no criminal penalty for failing to pay up on a civil judgement. The victim must locate the offender’s assets and file yet another court case to get those assets seized. Of course, the offender can appeal all the way, which makes things more convoluted.
Japanese officialdom seems to have this mindset (and I have heard this actually said) that “Japan is a nation of laws”, meaning that the Japanese abide by the law and the mere existence of a law will be enough to dissuade people from breaking it; hence the penalties don’t need to be severe. My response: “Then why do you have murders in Japan? Isn’t it against the law?”
So before we just go making more laws willy-nilly, we need to make the ones on the books mean something – only then can the battle really begin. Win all the hearts and minds you can, and beat the crap out of the incorrigibles, making an example of them.
But guess what? Debito dismissed this out-of-hand too as the argument of an “apologist”.
Oh, and as for foreigners being “guests” – that is actually fairly true at least as regards most English speakers in Japan (and Debito’s core audience). I have read the average length of stay for an English-speaker in Japan is three years – blame the Eikaiwa. It is certainly not true for most other foreign groups in Japan, but they don’t concern Debito anyway. And I don’t think most of them are concerned about him – he really is just an English-language blog phenomenon.
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You can still call Japan your home without being Japanese and be concidered an outsider. Non Japanese living in Japan have just as much right to have opinions about Japan as Japanese. You need to respect the culture and laws of Japan but also be critical to some of the rules, regulations they have and if you disagree with them you should make an issue out of it such as what Debitto has been doing. Though I think Debitto has the right idea for many things such as having his own personal crucade against Japan only signs which I find to be an embarrasment, the way he goes about often alienates me.
Fact! There are many Japanese only signs in Japan. Most of them are in the entertainment/nigh life establishment. Hostess bars, brothels, but also onsens, sento, apartments, houses, and various bars, restaurants.
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“Fact! There are many Japanese only signs in Japan.”
“many” is a subjective term, therefore, your claim that”many Japanese only signs in Japan” is a fact, is inherently flawed.
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Have you ever tried getting into a hostess bar in say for instance, Kabuki Cho? Chances are higher that you will be denied entry than being allowed to get in. I would say that with no exaggeration that at least 50% of all hostess bars in Japan deny gaijins entry.
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I’m guessing this comment was directed at me.
“Have you ever tried getting into a hostess bar in say for instance, Kabuki Cho?”
No, I’m only 18.
“Chances are higher that you will be denied entry than being allowed to get in.”
Probably, I’m 18.
“I would say that with no exaggeration that at least 50% of all hostess bars in Japan deny gaijins entry.”
Unless you have data to back this claim up, anecdotal evidence doesn’t hold up well in debates.
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I don’t know the situation in Scandinavia, but have you ever tried as a non-black to get into a black club in the US? The odds of being turned away at the door, or worse yet, thrown out on your ass after getting in the door, are pretty high. Or try being a black in hip-hop gear getting into a C&W club. Or just try the clubs in NYC – don’t have the right “look” or aren’t with the right people, and you’ll never get past the doorman. The same applies to hostess clubs – go with the right person, and look right, and you’ll probably get in. Don’t do that, and you won’t.
I tend to cut clubs and bars a lot of slack on that – they are in the business of selling atmosphere. While I don’t think they should have a sign on the door saying “Japanese only” or as someone put it above “No Dogs or Irish”, they should be allowed the right to refuse service to anyone and pick and choose their clientele. Ultimately, they will do what makes their business successful. In any big city there are any number of “gaijin bars”, for example, and they cater to that crowd as it makes them successful. Not a few Japanese are uncomfortable in those bars, sometimes because they can’t speak English and sometimes because they just don’t like the atmosphere (hell, I’m a foreigner and I often don’t like the atmosphere one bit). True, the management doesn’t say Japanese can’t come in, but if they aren’t feeling welcome or comfortable they’ll go where they do feel so. As will the foreigners.
Debito seems to think disreputable establishments with “Japanese only” signs are a “big deal” – I think he’s just fighting for his “right” to play with the Filipina dancing girls and doing absolutely nothing for the advancement of foreigners’ rights in Japan by going after those places. But hey – that’s me. I can’t see the point of paying a lot of bucks to have some bimbette pour overpriced beer into a tiny glass while making inane conversation. But I have seen a couple of those “Japanese Only” signs, and they have always only ever been on bars/clubs. I have never seen a restaurant or any other shop with one on them. Not even an onsen or sento (in person, I have seen the pics on his blog). Wouldn’t matter anyway – I have tattoos, and so am not welcomed in many places as it is, and wouldn’t be even if I was Japanese.
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You can live in denial if that makes you happier.
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You misunderstand me, I wasn’t saying you were wrong or correct. I’m saying that you should bring evidence to the table if you want to start claiming things as “fact”.
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I’m new here. Can anyone explain to me the problem a lot of people seem to have with Debito and his site?
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Since OigoMIEggo asked, I would be happy to fill him/her in. The situation is not too difficult to understand, really.
Debito Arudou is a naturalized Japanese citizen from the United States. He teaches English-as-a-foreign language in a small (very small) college up in the boondocks of Hokkaido. He decided to put down roots there after he followed over a Japanese woman to Hokkaido from the United States and married her (having 2 children). He is now divorced, but continues to live in Hokkaido. (This is all public information.)
Arudou wants to be more than just an English teacher in Japan pulling in a small paycheck in a small poli-tech school in the middle of nowhere. He wants (needs?) people to acknowledge and respond to his writngs (and has said so repeatedly on his website and other venues).
What does Arudou write about? Anything and everything. Recently — meaning the past 10 years or so — he’s decided to bang on about Japan’s allegedly institutionalized racism and xenophobia because apparently it attracts the least-common-denominator as a possible reader: the disgruntled and disenfranchised internet troll.
First problem: Arudou is not a trained diplomat, a scholar, a researcher, a politician, a lawyer, an analyst, or a member of any other business-related profession. He is simply an apparently troubled guy who likes to jot down some random thoughts after an event happens trying to tie it into his main “thesis” (if we can call it a thesis) that Japan is somehow a racist asylum that needs correction for the benefit of all resident foreigners everywhere. In other words, he sees himself as the self-appointed public defender of all non-Japanese everywhere in Japan.
Second problem: most of the 2 million foreigners living in Japan, not to mention the other 127 million Japanese, don’t know who he is nor do they care, so he’s essentially preaching to the choir.
Third problem: since the Otaru Hotspring case in 1999-2001, he’s become something of a public figure among the limited English-speaking gaijin community on the internet. His comments tend to attract a fairly small, but loyal following of mostly anonymous users who enjoy carping about how evil and unusual Japan is. He’s not very cautious about what he alleges in public. And virtually *never* apologizes or posts retractions for statements that are clearly misleading, disingenuous, or worse factually incorrect. Consequently, Arudou is not generally considered a source of reliable information on Japan for many people.
How many of these examples exist? In all honesty, we could be here for quite a while if a list were drawn up and it’s a waste of time to do so right now.
Is he politically effective among the limited English-speaking gaijin community? Most people would say no, he’s not. He has a blog; he has a small column in a small newspaper in Japan; and he runs a self-sponsored internet forum with a limited and dwindling membership of mostly unknown people. I don’t see these things as being indicators of an “influential” maker-and-shaker in Tokyo, but some people delude themselves into thinking that Arudou is somehow important. Truth be told, like many who seek to shock, Arudou may not really believe what he says about how racist and xenophobic Japan is and probably feels astounded when taken seriously.
He’s certainly never dull.
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This should be pinned on every blog or website about Japan out there. Very well written – my hat is off to you, sir.
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Ah, okay. Thanks Pete.
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Hoo-boy – big can o’worms. Let’s just say he’s not easy to get along with if you disagree with him. The “former friends of Debito Arudo” is one of the largest English-speaking foreigner groups. It has a broad, varied and distinguished membership (and no, I am not a member). His “my way or the highway” attitude rubs a great many people the wrong way, as does the constant aura of “but enough about me… kidding! Continue your praise” he exudes.
He brooks no criticism. He will tolerate no-one who he decides is an “apologist” or who otherwise seems “unable to consider changing their mistaken views” (read: they won’t cave in and agree with him). He runs his blog accordingly, which since it is his blog is his right, but the steps he has taken to ensure no dissent is viewed are rather bizarre, and even when he does allow valid viewpoints to be aired he just ignores them anyway.
All the while badmouthing sites like this one or Japansoc as he does so…
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For the record, regarding the U.S. and resident aliens (since people seem to be making things up as they go), guidelines and advice for them is here:
http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/retain-greencard.html
The bottom line is that you do have to carry your card, but there are notably important differences.
In the U.S., if you don’t have your card, the police do not haul you and hold you in detention until your card is delivered by another person. In Japan, they can and do hold you at the police station until someone else delivers your card, and they also interrogate you during that time. In the U.S., you can bring the card yourself to the authority that requested it within a certain period of time and you aren’t treated like a suspected criminal.
In the U.S., you will not be fined if you do not have your alien registration card. You will just have to get it and show it. Japan is proposing a 200,000 yen fine ($2,000 USD) for not carrying it. This is an exorbitant fine for something which people may do unintentionally by forgetting their wallet at home (or losing it).
And finally, the American authorities do not assume you are a resident alien because of your appearance and randomly and pointlessly check your identification just because of the way you look. You will only be asked to present your identification under specific circumstances – you are a suspect of an actual crime and the police have reason to check you or you are part of a routine check at a sobriety check-point (at which every single person passing through is being checked and you are not singled out by your appearance). In Japan, the police absolutely target anyone who doesn’t look “Japanese” simply because of how they look.
The Japanese abuse their power to threaten, intimidate, and harass foreigners. Most of the time, it’s relatively innocuous (I.D. check, bike serial number checking), but the point is that the way in which alien registration identification is used in Japan and the U.S. is extremely different. It’s far more oppressive and racist already in Japan.
Check the on-line forums for foreigners holding green cards in the U.S. and see how many people are talking about the police stopping them and asking to check their I.D.s for no reason other than the way they look or police stopping them and asking if they’ve stolen the vehicle they’re riding in randomly based on appearance. Yeah, you’re going to find very little if any.
This is why people like Debito are needed. Some of us aren’t happy with the racial discrimination that is obviously going on and know that, while it is necessary to put measures in place to control illegal aliens, that doesn’t mean that those measured and that power should be used abusively.
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→
→
→
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Does the U.S. need him more than Japan, perhaps?
Now Nobody is denying that xenophobia and racism exists in Japan just as any other countries. Nobody is saying there needs somebody who speaks up for English-speaking people in Japan.
People have problems with Mr. Arudou’s tactics i.m.o. because
1)He is not sending the message in Japanese. The blog and his articles on JT are not working to raise consciousness among Japanese.
2) when his blog gives wrong information and lies , he rejects to correct them while he accepts hateful and misleading comments and articles against Japan and Japanese.
3)His blog is unnecessary promoting the seed of fear among foreigners in Japan against Japan and Japanese and among Japanese against foreigners in Japan.
4)His blog is perhaps the most exclusionary blog in English blogspher in Japan.
I’ve been suggesting that some English-speaking people who has Japanese ability to comprehend Japanese to set up the site where English-speaking people can get adequate information from several perspectives, and foreigners and Japanese discuss the problems together that foreigners in Japan are facing.
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“In Japan, the police absolutely target anyone who doesn’t look “Japanese” simply because of how they look…The Japanese abuse their power to threaten, intimidate, and harass foreigners.”
Why must you spread this kind of melodrama around? You make it sound like it happens to every foreigner in Japan as a rule, and as if the police set out to victimize us.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who don’t feel the need to convince anyone who will listen what terrible people the Japanese are, get on with our lives and don’t get stopped by the police at all while we’re here.
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“You will only be asked to present your identification under specific circumstances – you are a suspect of an actual crime and the police have reason to check you”
And such reasons can and do, unfortunately, include….
Person being questioned was black
Person being questioned was hispanic
Person being questioned was Arabic
Numbers vary by region, but that’s about it.
“In the U.S., you will not be fined if you do not have your alien registration card. ”
Wrong. US law provides for a fine of up to $100, imprisonment for up to 30 days, or both. You may not be fined, but you can be. Even the link you provided says failure to carry is a misdemeanor, did you read it?
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I don’t know the situation in US but from the outside the little I know about the place, US does seem like a pretty f@ckt up country with a soaring crime rate, racial riots, Christian fanatics, rednecks. A country which diregard human rights with trigger happy police officers. So perhaps, compared to US, Japan is not such a bad place but it still is a racist xenophobic country. And there is nothing wrong in pointing this out.
Most hostess bars in Kabuki Cho or any where else for that matter do not take in gaijins. Because they do not take in gaijins the establishment is racist. You can argue and say, it is their right to be racist. I am saying they are racist because they don’t take in gaijins. If they are not racist, race, nationality would not matter but since it does that makes them racist. There is nothing wrong to point out that someone is racist.
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You’re arguments are silly. You admit to know little about the US, yet you claim that the country is “pretty fucked up”.
You said, “[Japan] is still a racist xenophobic country.” Your credibility is pretty much shot.
Your hostess bar (hostess club) argument is silly as well. Hostess clubs, as opposed to kyabakuras, are exclusive club. They need to have a reason to let you in. Many Japanese get rejected without the right connections. The purpose of a hostess club is to be entertained by hostesses. Many who only speak Japanese. There are a number of reasons why they may not allow a gaijin in. But I think a well-dressed, well-mannered, gaijin fluent in Japanese would have almost no problem getting into most hostess clubs and kyabakuras.
And anyway, hostess clubs and brothels are a small part of Japan. Calling a whole country racist based on one industry is ignorant.
“There is nothing wrong to point out that someone is racist.”
Everyone discriminates on some level (you are too by saying and having these views about the US and Japan). “Racist” is a powerful word based on hate. Use it wisely.
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Very often hostess bars and kyabakuras will use gaijins as an excuse for not letting in people. The minute they use gaijin as an excuse for not allowing in customers, they become racists. Not that I go to many hostess bars but thats not really the point, the point being is that many hostess bars and kyabakuras will come with the gaijin excuse. From my close to 20 years or so of living in Japan, I would very much say Japan is a racist xenophobic country. There is a strong right winged presence, the Japanese government is right winged. The Mayor of Tokyo is a nationalist etc. There is a very strong us/them mentality in Japan compared with many other places such as Scandinavia. If some establishment said openly, that foreingers were not allowed to enter some place it would be in the front page news but in Japan this is everyday life. It is the norm. There also are fudosanya who openly say that they will not rent rooms to foreigners. In many countries there are laws against such discrimination but this is lacking in Japan. Yes, there is racism in other places too but my opinion is that there is more of it in Japan than many other places that I have been to and lived in.
In 2005, a United Nations special rapporteur on racism and xenophobia expressed concerns about “deep and profound” racism in Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan
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i thought this was an English site on news in Japan. an awful lot of Japanese on this site.
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This guy is clearly a fool that would be laughed at anywhere else in the world. Why do you give him airtime?
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He’s no social activist, he’s a RACIST. Plain and simple.
And what’s with this stereotypical music?
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