Video: Japanese police chase down illegal immigrant
In this video clip, Japanese cops driving their patrol car around Shibuya notice a young man who reacts to the presence of their vehicle by suddenly halting and trying to get out of sight. They pull over the car and question the man:
The man is not Japanese, so they ask to see his alien registration card. The man produces a card identifying himself as a Chinese person with a residency visa that would allow him to live and work in Japan. He says he is on his way to see a movie, but the officers insist on searching his personal belongings. After finding nothing in his bag, they ask to see his wallet.
The man’s nervous reaction to the checking of his wallet is a dead giveaway that something is up. They find a second alien registration card in his wallet, and it reveals that his visa expired in 2007. Realizing that this discovery will lead to his arrest, the man tries to run away. The cops chase him down.
The man admits that the card he originally showed the officers was a fake that he had purchased so he could stay in Japan and work. He is taken in by the police and will later be deported.
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Too bad the local police do not have that power here in the States, we have to rely on the feds and they are too short on man power and funds.
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Wait, so there only basis for searching him was that he doesn’t look Japanese?
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Try watching the video. Or reading the first sentence of the post. Either will answer your question.
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Uh, in the video I didn’t SEE the guy suddenly change direction, did you?
We just have to take the cops’ word?
And how many people did they stop WITHOUT incident before they caught this guy? We don’t know, because hassling of random people on the street to prove they are legal immigrants, or even that they aren’t gaijin at all..THOSE incidents didn’t make it to TV.
Please view TV with a more critical eye.
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Or, I could just tighten my tinfoil hat down to Defcon Level3….
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Uh, what? Tinfoil?
Ad hominem attacks, eh? The fallback for people who can’t debate facts.
Is what I wrote not true?
We don’t see the guy “suddenly change direction” and try to avoid the cops on the video.
What is the basis of this claim? The cops’ word?
And by only seeing the positive result of searching a foreign-looking dude and finding he’s an illegal, without seeing ANY of the likely incidents of legal immigrants also being stopped, it is a form of “confirmation bias”.
Eat more fish LB, you’re out of your league.
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Facts… yes, well, when you present some we can start debating them.
Fact: according to the video narration, a young individual who was standing still waited for the patrol car to pass and then “suddenly started walking in the opposite direction.” There could be some question as to what, exactly, “the opposite direction” means, it is clear from the video he was walking briskly in the opposite direction from the one the patrol car was traveling in. Now, whether he had been facing in the same direction as the car was traveling, and did a 180, or was facing the road as the car went by and thus did a sharp right turn, or was facing the the car as it came towards him, froze like a deer in the headlights and then took off – yes, that we cannot see. What we can see from the cop’s face and the motions of his head is that almost certainly eye contact was made, at which point the Chinese started walking briskly away, prompting the cop to get out of the car.
“without seeing ANY of the likely incidents of legal immigrants also being stopped”
And without seeing them, how do we know such incidents are “likely”? Facts, please.
“it is a form of “confirmation bias”.”
The only “bias” I see “confirmation” of is your own that Japanese cops in question here are just grabbing foreigners until they get lucky and find the illegal. Now, as you have no facts or evidence to support that thesis, I would suggest you might not want to accuse people of being unable to debate facts when you yourself don’t present any.
“Eat more fish”
Hmmm… racism, or concern as to whether I am getting enough DHA to keep my brain nimble? Could go either way, but obvious troll is obvious, and your league is one I would prefer not to stoop down into.
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Wasn’t the guy Chinese? I doubt that cops would be that good at spotting Chinese vs Japanese at night from a moving car.
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Overthinker, I’m not so sure. The cop seemed to have doubts pretty quickly after stopping the guy – “日本の人？どこ？” Of course, it is clear that a bit of editing was done, a few seconds trimmed between the cop getting out and calling to the Chinese and the cop asking where he was from. There are quite a few Chinese where I live and you can pick them out at 150 meters – the haircuts, the clothes, the faces, the way they ride crappy mama-charis in groups… Now this guy doesn’t seem to be wearing “Chinese clothes”, but we can’t see his face either. On a lit sidewalk, from a slow moving car, perhaps the cop did see something that made him think the guy was not Japanese. But that “stride briskly away from the cruiser” routine should have set off bells anyway.
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So, how many hours or days of video tape including how many searches of “suspicious” looking people were there?
Surely even you don’t believe that the camera crew hooked up with the cops, and 5 minutes later, on their very first and only search, they landed an illegal immmigrant?
Surely even you believe that only the juicy bits make it to the final cut on TV, especially if the aim of the program is apparently to show Our Beloved Police cracking down on the “Gaijin Crime Wave”.
Now, if I were claiming the whole thing was staged or something for the benfit of the cameras, THAT would earn me a tinfoil hat.
But I am NOT going to assume that there were no other searches that only revealed perfectly legal immigrants or even Japanese natives being inconvenienced (or even made late for work or appointments) merely because they also seemed “suspicious”.
Did the program have any other “successful” searches? Did the program show any searches that yielded nothing? I wish we could know the number of “successes” vs. the number of needless stops..then perhaps other methods (workplace raids?) might prove more successful at rounding up illegals without hassling random people on the street.
But then, workplace raids mean you also have to prosectue the Japanese bosses who hire the illegals, too, which is counter to the apparent drive to make sure the Gaijin Hanzai rate is high [Straying into tinfoil territory with that thought.]
But if this is an “efficient” method of finding illegals, perhaps it is acceptible. Though I seriously doubt that many illegals will be DUMB enough to run from cops AND keep an expired gaijin card on their person when they have a perfectly good fake one already.
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The program was was one of the documentaries covering the activities of Japanese police.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/警察24時
激撮！交通警察２４時 春の全国大捜査ＳＰ！
http://www.tbs.co.jp/program/gekisatsu_20090318.html
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Immigration officers raided on a workplace where foreign hostesses were working. I don’t remember if the boss—I think it was a woman—was Japanese or not. though. I remember the boss saying daijoubudakarane, or something like that.
I agree.That would have made the program boring.
Yes. The man was walking at night suspiciously and was asked to show the content of the bag. He let them. There was tools for theft in it. He was arrested. He was Japanese.
Japan probe is a pretty informative blog, isn’t it ?— unlike another blog where some cowards want to see what their boss want them to see.
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Ponta, I was going to make that exact same point – on any of these shows, the vast and overwhelming majority of people shown being dragged in by the cops are… wait for it… Japanese.
In fact, sometimes they are the only people shown breaking the law. Can you imagine? A full two hours of prime-time TV, the perfect chance to plant and nurture the seeds of xenophobia by showing foreigner after foreigner being dragged in, and the networks and police are letting the chance slip by!! Shocking!
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Why did he keep a card in his wallet that expired in 2007?
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Exactly?
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This guy was not the smartest fortune in the cookie. First he keeps on his person proof that his ID is fake. Helpful. Second, the primary rule of doing illegal stuff is that you don’t ACT like you are doing illegal stuff.
I do wonder however how far police rights to search go.
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FYI
捜索
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/捜索
A police need a warrant to search.
But if you let him, he does not need a warrant.
In case of the U.S.
POLICE POWERS TO STOP AND SEARCH
But
http://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.communitylaw.org.nz%2Ffileadmin%2Fdocuments%2Fpolice_powers_to_stop_and_search.doc&ei=F7jfSKLIJoes6wOlm-WLBA&usg=AFQjCNF7OV8K8cPpHyykw6QTjxyj63G7ZQ&sig2=geNcOg0abLP9iTyWGkW2Gg
In case of Britain, it seem you don’t need a warrant to search.
Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act.
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kentanakachan/e/1c47f3abbbce0866a1f507dde7e06f29
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“A police need a warrant to search.
But if you let him, he does not need a warrant.”
I thought as much. And unless he arrests you, he can’t force you to go to the koban, either, I believe.
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There is an underlying hint of xenophobia that you can detect in the media these days in Japan, particularly focused on “those criminal Chinese”, and it’s affecting the average citizen. I know this because I’ve heard quite often recently that, “We should kick out all of these job-stealing foreigners from Japan.” It reminds me a little bit of the gripes over NAFTA.
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“I’ve heard quite often recently that, ‘We should kick out all of these job-stealing foreigners from Japan.’”
Rough crowd you hang out around. I’ve been half expecting Japanese to start saying that (as certain Americans/Germans/French/Spanish/whoever always do when the economy goes bad), but aside from punch-permed yahoos in big blue/black vans, I haven’t. And even those guys don’t count, as they were saying the same thing during the bubble years.
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I’ve only heard a few offhand comments from people in the immediate vicinity, but pulling together a lot of the stories on the news and public reaction to “foreigner-related incidents”, I get the sense that there is a “neo-xenophobia”, most likely sparked by the current economy. Certainly these stories have always been going through the news cycles, but it seems a lot more dense recently.
I have absolutely no numbers to prove this.
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I agree with LB. Japanese media rather focus on the plight of Brazilian workers in this time of recession in Japan. And I’ve never heard of Japanese saying the equivalent of ,say, ‘British jobs for British workers’.
I am not sure what would happen if the recession continues, though.
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And I’ve never heard of Japanese saying the equivalent of ,say, ‘British jobs for British workers’.
Comparing the immigration situations of Japan and Britain is ludicrous to begin with, and the Brazilian and Chinese workers are the ones doing the 3-K jobs that no Japanese people would touch with a ten-foot pole in the first place.
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“Comparing the immigration situations of Japan and Britain is ludicrous to begin with”
He wasn’t comparing immigration. Try thinking about what someone is saying instead of thinking about what you think they are saying.
“the Brazilian and Chinese workers are the ones doing the 3-K jobs that no Japanese people would touch with a ten-foot pole in the first place.”
True, kind of like Polish plumbers (or south Asian taxi drivers) in England. Or any service industry – when I have visited London I have been really struck by the fact that seemingly every store clerk or service industry worker has been Pakistani or Indian.
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To some extent, true.I don’t go so far as to say it is “ludicrous” .
Still you hear people complaining about immigrants taking the 3-D jobs in the U.S. and U.K.
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He wasn’t comparing immigration. Try thinking about what someone is saying instead of thinking about what you think they are saying.
How about you try not to sound like a condescending jerk in every single post you make on here?
Ponta was pointing out that Japanese politicians haven’t started a Gordon Brown-esque policy of giving preference to Japanese workers as evidence that Japan isn’t exclusionary or something along those lines. That sure sounds like a comparison between the situations in Japan and the UK to me. Although I don’t justify Brown’s actions, foreigners make up something like 10% of the population of the UK, while they make up 2% of the population of Japan. Thus some discrepancies between the policies and attitudes are going to exist between the two countries.
On a related note, why does it always have to be a comparison between Japan and some other country? Why can’t we just call a spade a spade and be done with it? Every single time something like this gets brought up, someone jumps up with a “but, but, but, in the US” or some similar garbage. It’s silly, because it’s also usually the same people who tell you “this is Japan, not the US, go home if you don’t like it” when an issue of discrimination, racial profiling, or what have you is brought up.
I think any reasonable person would see this video and say “whoa, what exactly was that Chinese guy guilty of aside from walking the other way from a police officer?” I don’t buy it.
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“How about you try not to sound like a condescending jerk in every single post you make on here?”
Pot, Kettle, you can fill in the rest.
“Ponta was pointing out that Japanese politicians haven’t started a… yadda yadda yadda”
No, he was pointing out that he has not seen Japanese (nothing was said about politicians) claiming “foreigners are stealing our jobs!” Yet (my addition). Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it hasn’t, not this time nor did it last time around.
I think comparisons get brought up because a lot of people are pretty ignorant of what goes on in their own countries. I don’t see it as an issue of “well your country is doing it too, so shut up” but as one where those screaming loudest about how bad Japan is and how it is some sort of rogue nation full of backwards, xenophobic people are completely ignorant of the simple fact that most of what happens in Japan happens elsewhere, sometimes with even greater frequency and greater malice. In a sense this is understandable – most of the people who I have met/seen in the “real world” who carry on are folks like me – white and from a middle-class background. As such they were privileged back home. Sheltered from racism as they were never on the receiving end of it. We never had to think about the issue until suddenly, guess what? We became the minority, the “outsider”.
So I don’t see comparisons as a defense in terms of “hey, you do it too, so shut up” but as “yeah, well Japan isn’t an “outlier”, so get your facts straight first.” I believe a certain individual would blog this under “Shoe on the other foot department”.
Now, what was the Chinese guy guilty of? Watching the cruiser, and making a quick turn to walk the other way as soon as it had passed him. In other words, acting shifty in front of a cop. In case you missed it, the cop even asked him “are you Japanese”? He was tipped off by the individual’s behavior – clearly nervous at seeing a cop and trying to leave the area when the cops showed up. That’s what cops are trained to look for. Someone reacting negatively to their presence – like this guy.
Like someone below said, if you were watching “Cops” and saw white officers cruising down the street and suddenly stopping a non-white individual who was obviously trying to avoid them, would you see racism or cops doing their job and checking out a suspicious individual?
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To prevent some people from sounding like a condescending jerk.
You’ve often seen such comments in another blog where some cowards, protected by the unfair moderation , gather, cursing, telling lies about Japan and Japanese. No?
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LB. Thanks. You are right about the interpretation of my comment and I am with you about the rest of your comment too.
Obviously TV producer didn’t think that way, and neither did many viewers.
But sure, someone might reasonably argue that looking at the cop, and suddenly change the direction does not count as “suspicious”.
And I am aware that there are pros and cons about it.
Refer to the article I gave to the overthinker and also to this article.
Note also that British cops have more power than Japanese cops.
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Pot, Kettle, you can fill in the rest.
No, actually, you’re the only one on this thread who can’t seem to respond like a normal adult:
Try watching the video. Or reading the first sentence of the post.
Or, I could just tighten my tinfoil hat down to Defcon Level3….
Try thinking about what someone is saying instead of thinking about what you think they are saying.
If you can’t admit that much, and temper your condescending tone, then you belong out in the sandbox with the toddlers, not in a rational discussion among adults.
Anyway.
Again, whether or not Japan is an outlier isn’t the point. The question is “is this an acceptable event in the context of Japan itself?”. If, for example, I get mugged on my way home from work, I’m not going to think “ah well, much worse happens in other countries, so I should just grin and bear it — shoe on the other foot and all that.” No, I’m going to see what happened to me for what it is — a crime under the laws of the country I reside in and from which those laws protect me. That’s why a great deal of these comparisons are meaningless, because they are applied to situations where the perspective you talk about is not necessary. Like I said, it’s about calling a spade a spade.
Watching the cruiser, and making a quick turn to walk the other way as soon as it had passed him. In other words, acting shifty in front of a cop.
Wow. Now that right there is a slippery slope. Since when is “acting shifty” a crime? And how do you define “acting shifty” in the first place? Sorry, but that is just weak. Myself, I get nervous when I’m around cops, too, having been stopped randomly on many occasions. Is that a crime as well? I’ll tell you one thing: we are all in a lot of trouble if “acting shifty” (whatever that means) is a justification for a stop & search.
Ponta, I’m not interested in Debito. Save it for your blog.
Obviously TV producer didn’t think that way
And surely you realize that TV producers have a myriad of reasons for producing shows in the first place, as well as how they depict what goes on in the program? I’m not suggesting that the producer tried to cast the Chinese guy in a bad light. I’m just saying that a producer is motivated by many different forces, namely the ratings their show receives. Didn’t your mother tell you not to believe everything you see on TV?
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“The question is “is this an acceptable event in the context of Japan itself?”. If, for example, I get mugged on my way home from work, I’m not going to think “ah well, much worse happens in other countries, so I should just grin and bear it — shoe on the other foot and all that.””
And on that, we agree. If something is unacceptable, then saying “but the you do the same thing back home” (assuming it is unacceptable there as well) is no defense. My point was that if something is acceptable, both in Japan and back in wherever, then engaging in some bizarre Nihonjin-ron and saying “only in Japan!” is stupid, and deserves rebuttal.
The question now, as pertains to the topic at hand, becomes “Was the cop’s decision to question that individual unacceptable?” I would say “no”. Not in Japan, and not much of anywhere else, either. The cop was acting within the scope of his duties, and was not abusing his power nor was he abusing the individual in question. He was polite, if suspicious of the individual’s behavior.
“Since when is “acting shifty” a crime?”
It is not. However, what it is is a tipoff that the person might be committing one. Or might be about to commit one. Acting shifty, tensing up, avoiding eye contact, a nervous quaver in the voice – these could be signs of something, or nothing at all. He could have been someone like yourself, who just gets nervous around cops. Or, he could be an illegal, like this individual. If the cop doesn’t stop and ask, he’s not going to know, now is he? And since part of a cop’s job is to prevent crime, s/he needs to be asking. I want the cops doing their job and stopping “shifty” people. I don’t want the cops saying later “Well, we saw this guy acting funny, but we didn’t want to infringe on his inalienable right to act shifty if he felt like it, so we walked by and came back later when we got the 911 call because he had then proceeded to use the concealed weapon he was carrying to open fire on a Shriner’s parade and kill a guy whose tiny car then careened into a baby buggy…”
If you are doing nothing wrong, the cops seem able to figure that out. Show them your ID, cooperate, and that’s that. Now, if they are genuinely abusing their authority, dragging people off for further questioning, frisking every foreigner they see, then that is a different issue. Slippery slope arguments are slippery slopes in and of themselves. “We don’t want the cops to abuse their power, so we’re not going to give them any to start with! Stop them before they start!” Bad idea.
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Hey, I didn’t mention Debito, you did. Save your comments for Debito’s blog. And my comment was in respond to your question ” why does it always have to be a comparison between Japan and some other country?”
Did my comment answer your question? That is the point.
Sure. But then again, your point was “any reasonable person would see this video and say “whoa, what exactly was that Chinese guy guilty of aside from walking the other way from a police officer?””
And my point was that neither the producer nor many viewers didn’t share your thought.
What you need to show, for your claim to be true, is that they are not reasonable.
By the way, he was not guilty of anything by changing the direction, looking at the police, but his action was supposedly doubtful enough for the cop to ask what he was up to.
From the context and the way he asked the questions, I think his stopping and asking question was justified.
Do you still believe everything you mother told you?;-)
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“It is not. However, what it is is a tipoff that the person might be committing one. Or might be about to commit one. Acting shifty, tensing up, avoiding eye contact, a nervous quaver in the voice – these could be signs of something, or nothing at all. He could have been someone like yourself, who just gets nervous around cops. Or, he could be an illegal, like this individual. If the cop doesn’t stop and ask, he’s not going to know, now is he? And since part of a cop’s job is to prevent crime, s/he needs to be asking. I want the cops doing their job and stopping “shifty” people…”
I could be wrong, but this seems like you’re saying a person is guilty until proven innocent, which is something I don’t agree with, but that’s just me.
Another thing that struck me funny was that after seeing the first ID card (albeit a fake one) they insisted on searching his bag, in which they found nothing, and continued on to ask for the man’s wallet. Why would they continue searching after seeing the first card? Or even the empty bag? I’m sure he looked pretty nervous or “shifty”, but wouldn’t most people? Maybe I’m just one of the few that tenses up, averts eye contact, and generally acts nervous when I’m around any sort of uniformed authority figure.
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“I could be wrong, but this seems like you’re saying a person is guilty until proven innocent”
No, I am saying if someone is acting guilty, it is the cop’s job to find out if they are or if they are not. And “innocent until proven guilty” is a concept used in trials, after someone has already been arrested and charged with a crime. Its effect on cops doing their job goes as far as preventing them from just randomly arresting people because “well if we arrest enough people we are bound to find a criminal in there somewhere”. It does not extend to “That guy looks suspicious, but I have to assume he is completely innocent and harmless until presented with evidence that, beyond a reasonable doubt, he has committed/is committing a crime”. No. Cops are not just there to clean up the messes – they have a responsibility and a duty to prevent the mess from happening.
Fine line? Yes. Granted. The tension between those trying to live in a free society and those trying to maintain order in that society is a constant. If the cops become strictly reactive chaos ensues and people demand the cops “do something”; if the cops become too proactive people demand the cops stop infringing on their civil liberties.
They catch an overstayer in Dougenzaka and they are “profiling” and being heavy-handed. They can’t deal with one crazy Englishman swimming naked in the Imperial Palace moat and they are “weak and ineffective”. They let the Chinese guy go, he marries, has a kid, and 12-13 years later gets caught only to have his crying daughter show up on TV abut how she never knew she was a foreigner and she can’t speak Mandarin and can’t possibly go to China and people say it’s the cops fault for not catching that Chinese guy when he was acting shifty in Dougenzaka all those years ago. The cops dogpile the Englishman and frog-march him into a van, and there they go being brutal to foreigners again, because “they would never have done that if he was Japanese”.
Cops can’t win.
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Exactly. And I think that is the point of the discussion.
I am not saying that the cops can do anything to maintain order neither am I saying that Japanese cops never abuse the power: there are sometimes reports on that.
But I have a feeling that some foreigners overreact to the Japanese cops, perhaps due to misguided information given at some misleading blog in English.
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You complained when you were accused above of referring to Debito’s blog with an earlier cooment about “another blog where some cowards, protected by the unfair moderation , gather, cursing, telling lies about Japan and Japanese”. You refer again to a “misleading blog”. Can you please say which blog you are in fact referring to so we can look at that one?
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Reminds me of last year when I went out to a club in Shibuya and I was questioned by the police, similar as in the video. I was just a tourist and I didn`t have my passport with me. Just my driving license which wasn`t enough. After they took me to the Shibuya police station and questioned me there I had the honor to drive in the police car (with 4 policemen) to my hotel where I could show them my passport. Well, since then I`m taking my passport with me even at night in Japan. I hope it won`t fall out of my pocket someday.
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This is ridiculous. So what if he started walking the other way? What, we don’t have the right to change direction of movement when police are in the area?
The video didn’t show how the guy moved when the cops approached, or anything like that. They just labeled him as a “fushinsha”, so he’s already cast in an unfair light, and then of course as soon as it comes out that he’s Chinese, well, game over.
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ummm, guy was here illegally?
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Wow! Never seen Japanese cops exert themselves much beyond the semi-conscious loitering they do in kobans. I was aware that, minimally, they can WALK – for example I see them WALK past illegally parked yakuza-mobiles; and WALK past ear-splitting uyoku party vans spewing high-decibel hate on their way to a stolen bike check or some other critical public security activity.
But in this clip they actually RUN…! Wow. I never knew!
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Hey, give them their due – they were on TV.
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Yeah, but then there was the British guy with the Spanish tour group swimming naked in the moat incident in which the cops…ran from a naked man. (More running on TV, but in the wrong direction) He might have been wielding a “third leg”, but he was clearly not armed.
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Was that part of a “Cops”-like segment in which the cops were actually being featured though?
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To paraphrase Henry Chinaski – I don’t hate cops, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.
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Saw the show last night, always a laugh – can believe you missed the “Get Smart” theme they used for BGM later in the show, talk about being unintentionally funny.
Have to say it was a great bit of police work here, saw someone acting suspiciously when they saw the police car, asked questions and their hunch turned out correct. The suspect then tries to outrun the former all police national 1500m champion – great stuff!
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How hilarious and unnecessary are those mosaics when the Chinese guy is in pursuit. I think he was turning around making faces to the camera as he was sitting in the back of the cop car as well.
I don’t know what show this was but did they focus exclusively on illegal immigrants? Sure they didn’t show the guy walking the other way, but that whole argument goes straight out the window 2 minutes later when they did find out he had forged IDs and the idiot deciding to run from the cops. Poor guy was simply a moron from the get-go. I’m not familiar with Japanese law, but if you ever watch the show COPS in the U.S. they question and search poor saps for “Suspicious Activity” all the time. 9 out of 10 times they end up finding dope and/or operating a stolen vehicle and get arrested right on the spot. You tell the cop your name is John when in fact it’s Bob — handcuffs.
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Please recheck your translation in the first paragraph. My Japanese isn’t perfect, but I’m pretty sure the voiceover claims the guy 立ち止まっている “was standing [in one spot] and then started walking in the direction opposite [away from?] the patrol car”
He didn’t suddenly do a 180 while walking.
Anyway, the lesson to all is, don’t act jumpy when you see a cop.
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Does the video make you wonder how a TV crew is driving along with a police crew looking for illegal immigrants and miraculously they happen to find one chinese dude walking around shibuya who happen to be an illegal and happen to carry his expire card inside the wallet.
That`s just so amazing and indeed lucky for the police and tv crew…..
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Edited down from days and days of tape, no doubt.
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i actualy dont like illigals. they do not have the right to be in the country. they do not have the right to take jobs. and they do not have the right to use social support wich was done for legal immigrants and citizens.
If that dude wanted to stay in Japan there are many ways to get officialy residency. if he cant, then he has to be where he has the right to stay.
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actualy he a russian hacker who lives illigaly in Swiss.
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No, he’s a Nigerian spammer…
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“You’ve often seen such comments in another blog where some cowards, protected by the unfair moderation , gather, cursing, telling lies about Japan and Japanese. No?” “unlike another blog where some cowards want to see what their boss want them to see.” Ponta, who are you refering to? I thought you meant Debito, but then you said you didn’t mention him… So, then who?
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This is an interesting video, and a good discussion. My own experience: I spent the past Dec. / Jan. visiting Japan for the first time. Upon my arrival at Narita, I was questioned by two policemen because I had been sitting at one of the bus stops for a rather lengthy period (I had to explain that I’d missed my connecting bus). They passed me by initially on their rounds, but stopped the poor Caucasian fellow who came out about the same time as me and recorded his info right away. The second time they came around, they spoke with me.
Now I’m Canadian of Chinese descent, with a shaved head, and was wearing a suit jacket that day (from what I understand now, the de facto “look” of some yakuza…but I had no idea, being one of those “ignorant” 1st time visitors! Please stop snickering in the back, there = )). They took my name, recorded my passport particulars, asked a few questions and were on their way.
They were polite. They had a reason to stop me, as I’d been sitting there for nearly an hour waiting for the next bus into Kichijoji. It could be surmised that my appearance didn’t help. Does the potential profiling bother me? Yes — but I also understand the perspective and where it might be coming from. In all honesty, I would be more upset if I were the white guy who sat a couple of benches away from me; he wasn’t acting in any way that would or could be (mis)construed as suspicious.
You guys have all brought up some good points, thanks for giving me different perspectives to think about as well. Just for the record: the aforementioned experience hasn’t dissuaded me at all. I enjoyed Japan a great deal, and hopefully will visit again soon.
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LB and Ponta, long time no talk! (I don’t read this forum regularly, and just stumbled on it today.)
As Jake and Level3 have mentioned, who knows how many hours of unsuccessful tape they had to get in order to capture this incident. Walking the other way when a cop car is nearby, and that’s grounds for suspicion? Now maybe you’ll believe people who say that the cops are harassing people for the most trivial of reasons.
That said, and assuming that this clip isn’t a bunch of yarase, that guy was truly stupid to be carrying his real ID along with the forged one, and to show both to them. And the forged one is a very obvious fake; the font for the numbers is wrong, and it doesn’t even line up correctly.
He was also stupid to be so obsequious when the officers went beyond the boundaries of the Constitution and demanded to see the inside of his wallet and bags. Saying “onegaishima~su” in such a tone, without anything about his rights or privacy? That is something I’d be suspicious of, not just a guy loitering on the street and avoiding cop cars.
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We don’t exactly know the details, but looking at the cop, and start walking in the opposite direction in a hurry with a suspicious expression on the face might reasonably lead a cop to ask a question.
As LB pointed out, “The tension between those trying to live in a free society and those trying to maintain order in that society is a constant”
The point is how much restraint of freedom should we take to gain the overall security of the society.
Some people claim no freedom should be restrained no matter what. You shouldn’t cooperate with a cop unless you have an duty and unless the cop has a power to force you to do. I think this is extreme and the society can maintain order more easily if civilians cooperate with cops.
Other people claim that we should turn a blind eye to the blunders the cops makes to keep our security. I think this is extreme too;we should keep an eye on the abuse of power by the police.
I think it is largely a matter of reasons why a cop ask questions, the time it takes,and the manner s/he ask. S/he shouldn’t ask everyone on the street for no reason, s/he shouldn’t take too much time, should ask politely etc.
As long as this case is concerned, I don’t think the cop’s act counts as unreasonable:I stated reasons on other comments.
This kind of statement may make the Japanese police suspicious of foreigners in Japan. The man was wrong in buying a fake ID in the first place, and he was wrong in carrying it. Your statement make it sound as if a foreigner consider it all right to buy a fake ID and what was wrong was just that he carry it with the true ID.
The cop’s asking to see the inside of his wallet is not beyond the boundaries of the Constitution;Forcing the search without the consent is beyond the boundaries of the Constitution.
I don’t see why you’d be suspicious. You translated the article about the manual of how to get away when the police stop you on the street, A Secret Orientation for Illegal Aliens that that is now circulating. debito.org/?p=2126(Again one might wonder why and for whom you are translating this particular article.)
Saying onegaishimasu, and responding as if he had nothing to hide and letting him see the bag might have stopped the cop to ask further questions;the cop might have believed that he had nothing to hide, so further questioning was unnecessary. It is just that the man’s play was not good enough to deceive the cop.
As I stated before, we should always keep an eye on the abuse of the power by the police. But as a rule, cops are not enemy. They help us. And a little bit of cooperation with cops will increase the overall security of our society. It would bother me to answer the cop’s question on the street, but I also understand their perspective.
Let’s fight together when the cop really uses useless abusive power and acts like a dictator. We live in a free society with order.
You should really join this forum. THIS BLOG IS A FREE SOCIETY with balanced moderation, allowing different perspectives. Freedom of expression is guaranteed.
I regret we can’t meet you on another blog. I wonder why someone prefer to join the community ruled and strictly censored by a dictator, blocking the truth, banning people, restricting people’s freedom while planting the seed of undue fear for the Japanese police, for that matter, Japanese society.
Frankly I am scared of such community and would leave if there was another place to go.
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Ponta: “The man was wrong in buying a fake ID in the first place, and he was wrong in carrying it. Your statement make it sound as if a foreigner consider it all right to buy a fake ID and what was wrong was just that he carry it with the true ID.”
What Mark said (and I said earlier) was that it was STUPID. Not “good” or “bad” but stupid. You can be very very evil and still be a genius, and you can be angel and be a moron.
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了解。understood.
Thank you.
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Hi Ponta. Yes, I’ll definitely come back to this forum. I found it yesterday morning while searching for the articles in the constitution (33 and 35, as it turns out) that prevent cops from opening your bags without your consent. Earlier yesterday morning a pair of cops pulled over in their patrol car and tried to do this to me, and I was able to talk them out of it.
Of course he was wrong to buy it. There’s nothing “all right” about buying forged documents. But even such an immoral person would, in addition to being wrong, very dumb (thus “truly stupid”) to carry the real one also. Even such a criminal would have been smart not to carry that one.
It makes me wonder if this show is genuine, or if the directors added some elements to make it more interesting.
I translated that article so that people who can’t read Japanese can see how illegal aliens are shown in the media. Since even legal aliens are frequently accused, without grounds, of being illegal by police, it’s important to see how the police and media look at things.
I think we’ll have to disagree about this. I tried cooperating with cops when I first started riding past police boxes on my way to work, only to find that even the same cops, who remembered me, hassled me repeatedly. They;ve never done anything to help me. But they have made use of me as a “training dummy” for their new recruits, and as a prop so that they can show the people around them that they’re “keeping order”.
Did you see how many people turned to look at that Chinese guy as the police were questioning him? He was guilty, but they do the same thing to innocent people (not shown, of course, in the video) Now imagine that happening repeatedly to yourself while being questioned by cops over and over.
I wish we could meet on that blog also. It was in fact in preparation for an entry on that blog (about some harassment that happened to me, as I mentioned above) that I was on the internet looking for videos like the one on this page. I’d like to translate what the cop says and compare it to how “my cops” spoke to me.
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The crimes of illegal aliens are reported in the U.S. every day as the link that I gave to GeramnBeauty shows. I wonder why English reading people assume that Japan is different on that matter. If anything, there is less reports on the illegal immigrants in Japan, in my impression.(It might be natural because there is less immigrants.)
I understand your argument that if illegal immigrants are too often portrayed negatively, there is a fear that legal immigrants might also be seen in the same way. The argument is often made by Latinos in the U.S.
But the article in question is not the right sort of article to show how illegal aliens are shown in the media here, given that there are other articles about over-stayers, crimes by illegal aliens etc. It partly reveals technique how illegal aliens should get away with Japanese police. One can’t help wondering why and for whom it is translated,
Yes, we know the story. Again we don’t know how your cases were really like, except
1)You said it happened only in your neighborhood. And when you lived outside of Tokyo, it never happened.
2)You ended the investigation into the issue for some reason despite the fact that you seemed to be willing at first, knowing how foreigners and native Japanese, me included, worked together and were able to put down the sign “Japanese only” at Tsukiji.
I would investigate what is really causing a cop to stop me and and ask the locals the best way to deal with the problem (in a local language.)
Actually the similar things happened to me when I used to ride a bicycle. I was often asked to stop by cops. Finally I asked a cop why I was stopped. He said he noticed that the lock on my bicycle was broken and so suspected that the bicycle might be stolen. I broke the lock when I lost the key. It never happened since I changed the lock.
I wonder why you keep preparing for an entry on the blog where the truth is blocked, many reasonable posters were banned.
Why don’t you ask James to post your article here, or I suggest you to start your own blog which is open to various opinions and correct information.
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