I don’t know what Japan’s Constitution says about treaties

The relevant articles say:

Article 98. (1)This Constitution shall be the supreme law of the nation and no law, ordinance, imperial rescript or other act of government, or part thereof, contrary to the provisions hereof, shall have legal force or validity.

At the same time,

Article 98. (２）
The treaties concluded by Japan and established laws of nations shall be faithfully observed.

But

Article 81. The Supreme Court is the court of last resort with power to determine the constitutionality of any law, order, regulation or official act.

Note that it does not mention the treaties.
So there are several interpretations.
Anyway I am sure Amnesty International has no capability to force Japan’s hand, for that matter, the U.S. ‘s hand, either.

I don’t know what Japan’s Constitution says about treaties. I do know that countries have often chosen to ignore international treaties. I also know that Amnesty International has no capability to force Japan’s hand.

Can’t agree on this one.

Everything, which in could in any way be brought in contact with “racism” isn’t decided as quickly and with that little explanation. That’s just impossible considering the german past.

Yeah, this latest twist has me agreeing with you. It’s getting beyond Young Innocent Pleading and onto Cynical Manipulation. Ponta may well be right on the money with blaming an over-eager lawyer, though the father is also to blame. Quite a lot.

No, which doesn’t mean anything really. Life is not fair, which means laws are not always applied equally either. For every photogenic Noriko, how many still remain living illegally and who won’t get treated as well? You use what you have got, I guess.

I still would love to know the true story – how a kid can grow up for example, with the surname Calderon and no one tell her she is not Japanese. How she doesn’t speak a word of Tagalog despite her parents both being native speakers, presumably.

“There is no such thing as a treaty that usurps the authority of a nation’s constitution.”

Don’t bet on it. International treaties have been used before to force legal changes.

Deport the whole family together – problem solved.

Does the Japanese birth rate include anyone born in Japan, or specifically children born to Japanese parents?

According to this paper,
http://www.hosei.ac.jp/toukei/shuppan/g_oc07.pdf

わが国では、｢人口動態統計｣による出生数を原データとしてTFR が算定、公表されている。なお｢人口動態統計｣のデータについては、その利用に当って次の点に留意が必要である。すなわち、基本的に「日本において発生した日本人に関する事象を集計したも
の」であり、「日本人の外国におけるもの及び外国人の日本におけるもの」（平成11 年上巻383頁）さらには当該年の結果報告の取り纏め時点までに報告されなかった件数が含まれていない点がそれである。

It seems that the birth rate reported is only about Japanese born in Japan and does not include the Japanese born in foreign lands and foreigners born in Japan.

Well, it is about the parents, and their actions. What is happening to Noriko may not be “fair”, but then again, life isn’t “fair”. She cries for the cameras and says she doesn’t want to move. Find me a 13-year-old who does! Mom and/or Dad get a job in a new town or state, they pack up the family and move, what do you think the kids are going to say? Some people move their whole family halfway around the planet – the kids adapt. There was just an interview in the paper with Angela Aki talking about how when she was about the same age as Noriko is now, her parents moved to Hawaii and Angela ended up in classes with 9- and 10-year-olds because she couldn’t speak English at an appropriate level. She seems to be doing fine now as an adult.

I was far more sympathetic to Noriko when this whole thing started. But at this point, I’m just thinking “Enough! Kick the whole G-D family out already!” Some folks are going to bitch even if Japan does a triple-over-backflip-and-pander-pirouette, saying they should have done a quadruple-over backflip etc., so what’s the point.

Noriko, sorry, your parents are idiots. Sucks to be you. But look at this as a chance to learn how not to do things. And think how you’d be able to regale all your new classmates in the Philippines with Tales of Japan. You’ll be the most popular kid in class. Good luck.

I’m sorry if the question sounds ignorant – I probably could have figured this out by now doing a search, but my kanji reading skills aren’t quite up to snuff just yet!

I’d love to hear your opinion on illegal immigrants pulling the same s*** in Germany; I’m sure your tune would change pretty fast.

出生数及び合計特殊出生率の推移
http://www.ipss.go.jp/syoushika/seisaku/html/111b1.htm

Japan needs to do something about it.

But the comments such as (Japanese) boastful attitude and (Japan to be) dead country are just the expressions of hatred toward Japan rather than the expressions of the willingness to talk.
They might just as well be ignored.

A construction and tourism boom in Spain over the past decade has fuelled immigration and the sudden wave of foreigners has led to a rise in xenophobia, which has spread out from the cities to villages.
The Internet has allowed radical groups to form better bonds domestically and internationally, and there are now at least 150 websites in Spain to lend their voice.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5giQE3xkFQDzqJpYPr-TCusfcvEbQ

But oh well, that’s Spain for you

The tactics worked until they won the compromise so that she can stay in japan and the parents as the deported won the privilege to visit Noriko.
But after he won the compromise, I am not sure if it has worked, though.
Once the decision is made, there is no chance the government change the policy for this case and I think he knows it.
Perhaps he wants to get as much as possible for other children of the illegal immigrants who might not have relatives in Japan.

My impression is that he has pushed too far.

The Filipina born in Japan, Noriko Calderon-san (13) spoke at a press conference pleading “I am in a state of shock. I want my father back now” after her father Alan(sp?)-san (38) had been detained by the Tokyo Immigration office regarding Noriko and her parents’ deportation issue.

Tokyo Immigration required that they decide whether to leave Noriko in Japan by the 13th, and if there was no communication of a decision, Noriko and Sara-san are to be detained on the provisional release deadline of the 16th, and the three deported including Alan-san on the 17th.

The Ministry of Justice explained they “reached this decision taking into consideration the effect on other illegal immigrants”. Regarding the parents, it was explained that they attempted to persuade the couple to agree to return to the Philippines by extending the provisional release deadline to the end of March if they did, but Alan-san did not comply and was taken into custody.

I’ve supported the position that Noriko should be allowed to stay while deporting the parents so I was happy with the decision that the government reached regarding this matter. But I’ve felt bad for the kid to have to go through this since it wasn’t her fault.

But even after the Japanese government has been delaying and compromising, I have to admit that this whining to the press is wearing my sympathy thin. They could have been all kicked out the day they were found, and Japan would have done nothing wrong then.

Also, the parents are just being idiots and letting things happen by inanction.
If they think they should take Noriko back to the Philippines, then they should say so. If they think they should let her stay in Japan, then they should say so.
Maybe they think if they make the girl whine and shed enough tears in front of cameras, they could somehow make public opinion to force the Japanese government to relent and let all of them stay, which I find to be pushing their luck and goodwill too far.

Japanese immigration laws are bad, foreigners hardly get by in Japan.

Japans birth rates are declining.

Thus:

declining birth rates + near to none immigration = a sooner or later “dead” country.

In other words, it doesn’t matter that the parents entered illegally.

If Japan was unable to stop them from immigrating in the first place, afterwards unable to detect them for a long time, (I’d say at least 10 years) it’s only natural for them to be allowed to stay in Japan, because Japan basically became their place of living.

FYI: Spain would have allowed them to stay, because they actually had work, it seems they didn’t have a criminal record, and were registered with the local authorities (Noriko was in school :>)

But oh well, that’s Japan for you

Thus “being together in the Philippines” is neither a suitable option, nor is it in the interest of the child.

->

It is against the will of the child, as well as it isn’t in the interest of the child.

Soon they will realize that their ageing country will seriously in need of assistance. And because of their boastful attitude, other countries will then refuse to help them.

What does that mean, exactly? Are you saying other countries will sever economic ties with Japan because of their supposedly “boastful attitude,” which has not been a problem so far, or that people will refuse to emigrate there?

Uh…

The Japanese Government gave the family options. Either that:

-Noriko stays under the parent’s care and goes back to Philipines (which is where her citizenship is, remind you because she is NOT a Japanese citizen) OR

-Noriko stays in Japan under her close relative’s care (I believe an Aunt who lives some what close by) while her parent’s get deported and gets some sort of special permission to come visit periodically.

How is this unfair to the child OR the family? I would like to remind everyone here that Noriko’s parents broke the law of Japan. Yes, it might not seem like a major crime, compared to Murder/Rape/Fraud/Grand Theft Auto, etc BUT the fact is that a law was broken.

For those of you who think “who cares if you let a family stay in Japan”, its the principal here that matters. A law was broken from the parents. The parents are being punished rightfully.

And, its very unfortunate that the parent’s are using the media to plead their case. Please, we have more important things to worry about in the world right now. I think everyone can agree with me on this one. The world economy is on the brink of collapsing. Just my personal thought.

Noriko is not Japanese. Not legally. Mentally, perhaps, but it ends there.

She is not being “deprived” of growing up with her parents. She is completely free to live with them, just not in Japan.

I for one am getting pretty damn sick and tired of all this “Japan should do this” and “Japan should do that”. How about “Noriko’s parents should have done X, Y and Z”, starting with not entering Japan illegally. See, that would have solved the whole thing. And yes, it is about her parents. They chose to break the law, and then have a kid, thereby dragging her into it. And when they got caught, what did they do? Start with the “Won’t someone think of our child?” routine. How about this: YOU’RE the parents, how about YOU think about your child. How hard is that? Noriko is not Japan’s responsibility, she is not my responsibility, and she is not your (“your” as in everyone on this forum) responsibility. Her parents – Alan and Sara – THEY are responsible for the well-being of their daughter, and they have been negligent. They are the people who should have been looking at Noriko with “compassion”.

But you are right on one point: I have never been in a situation where my life was determined by the compassion of others. I say that with pride. I take responsibility for my own life. That is not to say I have never been offered, and accepted, a helping hand when events beyond my own or anyone else’s control knocked me down, and I have and would again gladly do the same for someone else in such a situation. But this is not such a situation. Complete, total and callous lack of planning and selfishness by Alan and Sara Calderon is not cause for extraordinary measures on anyone else’s part. They created this mess – not the MOJ, not immigration, not the police, THEY did.

Jenkin’s case is different. He didn’t enter Japan illegally.
And Noriko is not legally Japanese and it is not her right to stay in Japan. That is why this is a problematic case.

Granted that she has a right to live with her parents, then she can live with her parents in Philippines.
I’ve checked Japanese school in Philippine.
http://www.mjs.org.ph/
If she does not want to go to Filipino school, she can go to Japanese school.

That said, though justice ministry deal was not entirely unreasonable, I for one think that the over-stayers should be given a chance to stay on certain conditions.
They have no criminal record except illegal entry and overstaying, I suppose. They are hard-workers,they speak Japanese pretty well.
And as you point out, considering what Noriko (and her parents) might do FOR Japan some day because of a favorable decision, Japan might as well grant them a special permit.
To let them pay for the wrongs that they did, it is not unreasonable that Japan might make them pay the penalty, or do community work without deporting them.

This is likely to become an issue to be addressed in the future.

I can’t help but compare this to the Pvt. Jenkins case. Not that I had sympathy for Jenkins, but the decision in the end not to prosecute him was 100% correct – for the sake of his wife and daughters.

Should Soga-san have been deprived of her husband?

Noriko was born in Japan, and is Japanese. Everything in her life is Japanese – the Philippines is a foreign country. She is Japanese, and it is her right to stay here.

So the question is, should a young girl be deprived of growing up with her parents?

No qualifying statements, please. This isn’t about her parents – Should a young girl be deprived of growing up with her parents?

I hope we’ve finally reached the point in society where we have room to look at those questions with some compassion. I can’t help but think most of the people on this thread have never been in a situation where their entire lives were determined by how much compassion a small group of people were willing to show them.

Or, if you want to be a complete Machiavellian about it, How much damage to society will letting her parents stay incur, vs. how much will happen by deporting them? What might Noriko do FOR Japan some day because of a favorable decision?

The Gomez brothers, who came to this country as toddlers, were at the center of a media maelstrom two years ago when advocates pushed for a bill called the Dream Act. The measure would allow undocumented immigrant students to pursue college or military careers.

Their parents were deported in 2007. Juan now studies finance at Georgetown University and Alex attends Miami Dade College
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/sfl-gomez-brothers-0305,0,2602243.story

The subject line of the email read simply, “Please help.”

This time it was a 13-year-old boy. After 20 years of sweatshop labour, his mother could be deported thanks to new laws coming into effect on June 1
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/593590

Mom faces deportation in Florida

The case has reignited the debate over illegal immigration in the region.

Civil-liberties and immigration advocates decried the arrest as a misuse of police authority that broke apart a family, while others say she and her husband brought the situation on themselves.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/25/Mom_faces_deportation_in_Florida/UPI-78071235600173/

100,000 Parents of Citizens Were Deported Over 10 Years

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/us/14immig.html&OQ=_rQ3D2Q26refQ3Dhp&OP=72f407a5Q2FQ27Q3FrzQ27eQ2A6(dQ2AQ2AY4Q274iikQ27i4Q27RfQ27Q24(Q27RfgaagNCPYa,

A majority of Canadians believe immigrants who are in the country illegally or after their visas expire should be deported, even if they have family ties in the country, a newly released government poll shows.
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/593590

・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・

I think　Justice ministry’s deal was not bad if not the best.
Noriko can live with her aunt in Japan according to the article and probably will not be separated from her Japanese friends(Her aunt lives in Saitama) And the parents also can visit Japan once in a while.
I wonder what the lawyer is up to:there is no chance the decision is to be changed.

I’d hate for Noriko to waste too much time in Japan when she really should be preparing for Philippine High School. I’d guess that a Japanese diploma wouldn’t as valuable as a Philippine one once she re-settles in the Philippines.

However Mister M, I agree with you completely: “Japan is suffering with low birth rate and needs young people to support the elderly people in the future and she can be the one to do that. What is the problem Japan? Wake up and let her be free e happy with her friends and parents.”

I think the family should be allowed to stay. But I also think it’s not *that* bad if they do in the end all go back to the Philippines–she will get to learn about her own culture and can try to come back to Japan legally as an adult.

I agree that letting the daughter stay and deporting only the parents is a valid solution for japan to take. they’re the ones who broke laws, plus they’re already getting special treatment, and dispite having her parents being deported, i believe one of the previous articles stated that she had relatives near by she live with or something.

also, japan is not forcibly seperating the child from her parents, they’re just saying the parents cannot stay in japan, never did they say that they couldn’t live together at all anymore, just the parents cannot live in japan, now if the daughter stays in japan or follows her parents is a completely different issue all together, it is her and her parent’s choice whether she stays in japan away from them, or follows them out

“If Japan had realized the problem and solved it before she was born, this situation would not have happened.”

How about: “If her parents had not illegally entered Japan on false passports, and then stayed on in Japan as illegal immigrants, gibing birth to Noriko in the meantime, this situation would not have happened.”

If you are going to point fingers, point them where they belong – at the party that actually did something wrong.

“Japan should acknowledge the mistake” How about “Noriko’s parents should acknowledge their mistake, and return to the Philippines. And also apologize to Noriko.”

If Japan had realized the problem before e solved the problem before she was borned, this situation would not happen. Now Japan should aknowledge such mistake and let her be happy with here friends and family in Japan.