Well, I have to wait to see the development here, but I think that will make Japan Times into trouble rather than the sumo league.

All the Japanese media reports the September test results were indecisive for the first 2 tests and negative for the third test.

Yomiuri Online
http://news.goo.ne.jp/search/article/?MT=%BC%E3%F3%CA%CE%DB%A1%A1%B1%A2%C0%AD&IE=EUC-JP&OE=EUC-JP&day=all&ihost=&FR=10

Asahi
http://news.goo.ne.jp/search/article/?MT=%BC%E3%F3%CA%CE%DB%A1%A1%B1%A2%C0%AD&IE=EUC-JP&OE=EUC-JP&day=all&ihost=webnews.asahi.co.jp

Nikkei
http://www.nikkei.co.jp/news/shakai/20090131AT1G3101K31012009.html

Mainichi
http://mainichi.jp/select/jiken/news/20090201k0000e040018000c.html

Nikkan Sports
http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/p-sp-tp3-20090203-456763.html

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The first 2 links should have been,
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/news/20090130-OYT1T00699.htm?from=nwla
http://webnews.asahi.co.jp/ann_s_190131027.html

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“……..rather than the sumo league”

Yes perhaps you have a point….they have such a stellar record of being immediatly forthcoming with cases of violent manslaughter, and of course bold actions in repudiating ties to organized crime.

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they have such a stellar record of being immediately forthcoming with cases of violent manslaughter, and of course bold actions in repudiating ties to organized crime.

Is it supposed to be irony to the effect that they didn’t come forward when a violent manslaughter happen and didn’t repudiate ties to organized crime? And do you want to say, “do you still want to believe them with such records?” ?

――若麒麟は昨年の簡易検査でやり直しとなった

　伊勢ノ海理事「専門の先生方が判断した結果。素人が言うことではなく、専門家の判断に従っているから問題はない」
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/news/20090130-OYT1T00699.htm?from=nwla

1) it is the independent organization which judged it needed to reexamine him and put forth the final result that the test was negative.

Do you have evidence that Japan Sumo Association suppressed the test result?

2)Is it JSA that didn’t come forward or it is then tokizukaze oyakata（stable master） and some rikishi who didn’t report the incident to the police? Or are you talking about yet another incident of manslaughter?

3) Which organized crime are you talking about?

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“1) ……… Do you have evidence that Japan Sumo Association suppressed the test result?”

I dont know that test result was supressed, but one news paper reported it. I posted a JT article to that effect, not as evidence, just as a response to the same query from stereo. I realize that it is not consistent with some other coverage of the same issue. Since its an article in English about a Japanese topic, perhaps you assume it must be riddled with errors and slander. If so, I cannot help with that.

“2)Is it JSA that didn’t come forward or it is then tokizukaze oyakata（stable master） and some rikishi who didn’t report the incident to the police?

As we both know, it was the stable master who initially was dishonest by claiming heart failure – a story that was quickly accepted by the JSA. The JSA then tried to treat the whole thing as an internal matter for internal review. Footdragging ensued and it took months for the JSA to finally kick the tokizukaze master out of the sport, when it should have taken days. This malfeasance earned the JSA (properly) enormous criticism. Interestingly, the other sumos who “just followed instructions” to beat Takashi Saito (and kill him) were in some ways treated less severely by JSA than the russian sumos who were immediately banished for smoking some herb in 2008. So yeah, with such priors, I tend to be skeptical of anything JSA says on matters they investigate and face-saving is at stake. Is that unreasonable? To the JSA’s credit, I understand they did review training techniques at all stables after the Saito tragedy. The majority were found to use baseball bat hazing. Perhaps the JSA has issued a new rule that any baseball bat training (or beer bottles or cigarette burns) that they hear of will result in immediate no-questions-asked banning of all involved? But I dont know this; please let me know if you know.

“3) Which organized crime are you talking about?”

Not sure why thats important, unless you simply doubt that there is any involvement by any organized crime in sumo. I know you are more well-informed than that.

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Since its an article in English about a Japanese topic, perhaps you assume it must be riddled with errors and slander

Again, leitmotive, you are reading too much from the evidence.
Don’t concentrate on me but on the argument, evidence, etc.

Interestingly, the other sumos who “just followed instructions” to beat Takashi Saito (and kill him) were in some ways treated less severely by JSA than the russian sumos who were immediately banished for smoking some herb in 2008.

in what ways?

So yeah, with such priors, I tend to be skeptical of anything JSA says on matters they investigate and face-saving is at stake.

With what priors? You’ve been just talking your speculation.
And remember, this time it is not JSA but the independent organization that is at stake.(read the article I provided)
And obviously you haven’t read the article stereo provided either. Read the article by nikkan sports.

Not sure why thats important, unless you simply doubt that there is any involvement by any organized crime in sumo. I know you are more well-informed than that.

You brought up the “ties to organized crime.” And I am asking which organized crime. Just tell us which organized crime.

Leitmotive, a conspiracy theory won’t work here because there are critical readers here unlike the other blog which suppresses the truth.

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@ ponta…
“Again, leitmotive, you are reading too much from the evidence. Don’t concentrate on me but on the argument, evidence, etc.”

I am reading too much from evidence, yet you simultaneously chide me to concentrate on evidence. Isn’t that contradictory? But nevermind, either interpretation is far from the mark. One more time, ponta – You (and stereo) seemed annoyed that anyone would dare suggest that the JSA may have suppressed test results. You both separately demanded to know the basis for anyone suggesting such. I posted a JT article where a reporter wrote “The [Japan Sumo] association apparently buried the results after he passed the third test.” I realize that its one of several versions of the story that are reported in other newspapers you mention. I also realize and stated that text in JT is not final evidence for anything. But I also don’t immediately assign it a value of zero. You apparently did assign it a value of zero, though I don’t immediately understand why. I just suggest the reason may be that it is in English – but if there is another reason, I hope you will share

“in what ways?”

The initial Russian pothead sumo (Wakanoho) was arrested in 2008 based on suspicion of possession of cannabis. Within days of his arrest the JSA had met, discussed, and banned him for life – before Wakanoho was even released from detention, before any drug tests were conducted, before Wakanoho saw any courtroom. He was later released, with no specific indictment filed at the time. He of course asked for the JSA to reverse its banning decision – as he claimed not to have actually smoked. JSA refused to reconsider. Seems pretty harsh, don’t you think?

Contrast that with handling of the Saito gang-beating-to-death-with-baseball-bats-while-tied-to-a-pole case where the stable master was very slowly dealt with by the JSA, and the Saito’s stable mates who were “just following orders” to beat Saito to death, were put on a kind of probation (not banned), pending a court trial.

So, to summarize; Case 1: Multiple Japanese sumos participate in obvious manslaughter – JSA shows very slow, reluctant action and finally banning the key criminal months later & only seeking probation for his baseball bat-wielding underlings pending court decision. Case 2: Russian sumo arrested (but not indicted or tested) for a significantly lesser crime than manslaughter involving cannabis posession – JSA says “GTFO now!” before he’s even released from detention. No reconsideration. Do you see what I mean about treating less severely, ponta?

“With what priors? You’ve been just talking your speculation.”

Certainly not. The enormous criticism of the JSA in the press, from prominent politicians, and elsewhere has been on these points, and more. Hardly my own personal speculation.

“You brought up the “ties to organized crime.” And I am asking which organized crime. Just tell us which organized crime.”

The organized crime is that which would drive the numerous allegations of sumos throwing matches etc. That activity (throwing matches) is more or less a working definition of the term “organized crime”. Sumo match fixing allegations have been reported on this blog and crops up elsewhere in the media with significant frequency – perhaps all scandalous lies in your view, but I cannot help if that is the case. Some economists even wrote a book called “Freakonomics” which applies statistical analysis to many everyday items including – interestingly and quite damningly – the issue of sumo match fixing. If you are demanding that I name the specific mafia group that is directly involved, I don’t now that, nor do I see how it would help you – unless you are STILL incredulous at such baseless allegations about the sport and have never heard such before until you saw my comment on Japan Probe. If so, you may be a member of a very small (and gullible) subgroup of sumo spectators.

“Leitmotive, a conspiracy theory won’t work here because there are critical readers here unlike the other blog which suppresses the truth.”

Please check your usage of the term “conspiracy theory” – its an awfully easy charge to make, but difficult to substantiate (if you actually care to do so, that is). I dont alledge any secret cabal inside the JSA – what is on display is more likely just pure, anachronistic boneheadedness. But, in general, those who think that there are “blog(s) which [can somehow] suppress the truth” tend to be prime suspects of conspiracy theorizing.

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I am reading too much from evidence,

Yes.

yet you simultaneously chide me to concentrate on evidence. Isn’t that contradictory?

No, it is not. Because several times you focus on me rather than my augment and evidences.　
And what I am saying is that read the evidences correctly but don’t read too much and draw a balanced conclusion.

But I also don’t immediately assign it a value of zero. You apparently did assign it a value of zero,

Leitmotive, again and again you are reading too much.
Stereo said he had to wait to see the development, I just asked you to give us evidence.

The initial Russian pothead sumo (Wakanoho) was arrested ・・・・・

Wakanohou, a Russian rikishi, was arrested on Jun 24th and he was fired on August 21st.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/大相撲ロシア人力士大麻問題
Wakakirin, a Japanese rikishi, was arrested on Jan,30th and was fired on Feb 2nd.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/若麒麟真一

A Japanese Rikishi was fired quicker after the arrest than a Russia Rikishi.

Then stable master Tokitsukaze was fired on Oct 5th 2007 . He was arrested on Feb 2nd in 2008
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/山本順一
The Japanese stable master was fired even before the arrest.

What is at stake in case of Tokitsukaze is that the arrest by the police was late after the allegation came out and that it was evil of the stable master that he tried to cover up the crime and even tried to blame an innocent victim.

And I agree that IT IS EVIL THAT SOMEONE TRIES TO COVER UP A CRIME AND BLAME AN INNOCENT VICTIM. It would be a horrible organization if it supported such activism to defend its member.
You might be acquainted with a hate group that is doing like and never explain their action to the public.　Let me know if you know such a group.
But as we have seen, JSA was not.

Anyway as for sumou, what should be criticized is the practice of beasting in some stables but can’t say the treatments by JSA as regards to these suspects were unfair.

Sumo match fixing allegations have been reported on this blog and crops up elsewhere in the media with significant frequency – perhaps all scandalous lies in your view, but I cannot help if that is the case.

We are not sure all scandalous were lies not. I take it that way; they might or might not be true.
You used this unreliable information to suspect JSA suppressed the truth of this particular incident even after all other sources pointed the other direction.
You can’t reinforce you claim which has been weakened by other sources by another unreliable information.

Please check your usage of the term “conspiracy theory”

I used the word ” conspiracy theory” as a hypothesis which alleges, without clear and sufficient evidences, that a coordinated group is, or was, secretly working to commit illegal or wrongful actions
You claim that JSA has a tie the “organized” crime.
Throwing matches are wrongful actions.
But the allegation, JSA’s tie to the organized crime, as you also admit, is not grounded well.
Thus it is still in the status of a conspiracy theory.

But, in general, those who think that there are “blog(s) which [can somehow] suppress the truth” tend to be prime suspects of conspiracy theorizing.

Obviously you are referring to me because you quoted me.
In what sense are you using the word a conspiracy theory, and what conspiracy theory do you think I hold?
Or is it just another case you are reading too much?

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is the fact that it was a foreigner significant?

I think they are reporting what the suspects(wakakirin and his friend) told the police. If they said they had bought it from a member of Yamaguchi gumi, it would have been reported that way, I guess.

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Which in a way is the issue. Obviously Yamaguchi-gumi are connected to crime and mentioning them gives a clear link. So are foreigners now a similar link? My point it, would it have been an issue worth mentioning if it was a guy from Osaka? If yes, then fine. My concern is simply that there may be no direct connection between the foreignness and the crime, yet the way it is reported makes that connection implicit in a way. Which is why I find your example of the yakuza suggestive.

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I think it depends.
I don’t think wakakirin would have said he got it from the man form Osaka because that is a unusual way to specify a person in Japan.

But he might have said, he got it from a school teacher from Osaka , a freelance journalist, a journalist of Asahi, a dancer working at Roppongi, a spaceman from the Mars etc.And I guess it would have been reported that way if that had been what he said.

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I suppose I could get worked up over the “Wakakirin says he bought pot from a foreigner” issue if years of observation had not taught me that while Japanese are behind the importation and distribution of drugs, the “runners” on the street, the people actually physically handing over drugs for cash, are almost always foreigners and almost always from a certain country that is said to be between Iraq and a hard place. Harsh, perhaps, but I have also known folks from that country who were perfectly legitimate businessmen, and they bitch the loudest about their fellow countrymen who are “runners” as they are all in the same small community and all get lumped together. The honest folk are almost a minority, and they know it.

Sure, if someone knew the “right” people they could buy pot from a Japanese who might be growing it himself. But since most people probably lack the credentials needed to be able to do that, they are getting stuff from the expendable, bottom-rung folks, who are usually not Japanese. They are also not usually from first-world countries either, and pretty much all Japanese know this. So even if Wakakirin blames a foreigner, I can’t get bent out of shape about it. Most Japanese aren’t, and the rare few that are? Feh. There are morons everywhere. *shrug*

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