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Chinese city to sound sirens to mark 77th anniversary of Japan’s invasion

One Chinese city will use a very dramatic method tomorrow to remind its citizens of a national humiliation that occurred long before most of them were born:

Sirens will sound in the northeastern Chinese city of Shenyang Thursday evening to commemorate the 77th anniversary of Japan’s invasion.

The municipal government will blast the sirens at 9:18 p.m. on Sept. 18 for three minutes in the capital city of Liaoning Province.

Also at that time, TV and radio programs will pause. Vehicles on nine main roads and 18 main streets, which symbolize Sept. 18, will stop and blow horns.

“That is to remind people of the national humiliation,” said a government notice.

Is this a sign that the calls for a “National Humiliation Day” are catching on?

29 comments - What do you think? Posted by James - September 17, 2008 at 8:04 am

Categories: Anti-Japan Tags: china

LB

How about a “if our vast nation of 600,000,000 people (at the time) had actually bothered to fight against an invading army of only a couple hundred thousand troops, we might not have to have a ‘national humiliation day’ day”?

concerned Filipino

LB, I rather think there were a a bit more than 200000 thousand Japanese troops in the invasion of China. I read that when Japan surrendered, it was far from defeated in the traditional sense, with 1.5 million troops still stationed in the Home Islands and another 3 million in its overseas empire – which in August 1945 was mostly China.

LB

“200000 thousand” – what is that, 200,000,000? That would have been more than twice the entire Japanese population.

Japan surrendered in 1945, and yes, everyone who could be mobilized in 1945 pretty much was. But we aren’t talking about 1945, when the army had 145 divisions and 5 million men.

In 1940, well after the war with China started, Japan had all of 31 Divisions, with 376,000 active-duty troops and 2 million reserves.

In 1934, still several years after war started, there were only 17 divisions, and this was after an increase put through that year. So in 1931 there would have been probably 12 Divisions (the number from before the war), not all of which were in China anyway.

At best, in 1931 Japan had about 200,000 active-duty troops to move against China. And since an army moves on its belly, most of those troops would have REMFs (in the rear, with the gear”. Only a fairly small number of troops would have actually been fighting the Chinese.

concerned Filipino

LB, I originally put “200000″, then went and did something else, then wrote “thousand” later. That’s the problem with multitasking. Take your sarcasm to someone who enjoys it.

In any case, your implying that if the Chinese had defeated the initial invasion, the Japanese would simply have given up. I don’t think so.

And don’t say that the war started in 1931, because China was not one state then but several. So which war are you referring to? The war against Nationalist China, which led to the official alliance of Nationalists, Communists, and warlords, and the sacking of Nanjing, started in 1937.
LB

“And don’t say that the war started in 1931″

Tell it to the Chinese. Read the article. If yesterday was the 77th anniversary, that would mean the invasion happened in… lessee… 2008 minus 77… carry the 10… 1931!

“China was not one state then but several.”
Again, tell it to the Chinese, they seem to be suffering under the illusion that there was but one China.

Fine. Let’s go with 1937 – at which point in time there were something less than 31 Divisions with 376,000 active-duty troops. No matter which way you parse it, Japan attacked China with only a couple of hundred thousand troops total. Not millions, not even 1 million, but a couple of hundred thousand. Against a country with 10 times Japan’s own total population. And effectively won.

China needs to look inward for the source of its “humiliation”.
concerned Filipino

We’re not talking about the Chinese view of the matter but your view of the matter. If you want to look at the number of Japanese troops at just one point in time and ignore the rest of the war, just to prove a point, fine by me. Don’t expect to win a debate, though.

Do you count occupying part of a country for some time but being unable to subdue the whole country, while losing on all other fronts as “effectively winning”?

By the way, what’s your source for troop figures?
LB

Japan occupied all the important areas of China. The Nationalist government was holed up in the far southwest, unable or, as even Chiang’s allies uncharitably put it, unwilling to fight back. China never surrendered, true, but effective control of a very large chunk of the country was ceded to Japan while Chiang waited for the Allies to win the war for him. I would count that as effectively winning in China. The rest of the war doesn’t count, at least for purposes of what is being discussed here. Again, read the article! What is being talked about is Japan’s invasion of China.

“If you want to look at the number of Japanese troops at just one point in time”
Well excuse me, but that is what we are talking about! The invasion of China, at a given point in time. Japan had routed the Chinese well before 1940, so their troop levels at that time are germane. Not the troop levels in 1945, with a huge home defense army, not the troop levels in 1943 when Japan still controlled huge chunks of the Pacific and southeast Asia, but the levels before that, when Japan still had a relatively small army and in terms of actual use was using that army almost exclusively in China.

Are you following so far, or am I still going too fast for you?

“By the way, what’s your source for troop figures?”
Google it. The numbers are all over the web. Give a man a link and he goes away for a day; teach a man to Google and he won’t ever bother you again. http://www.google.com
concerned Filipino

“Are you following so far, or am I still going too fast for you?”

I don’t even have to talk to you if you continue to be offensive. I’ve been moderating my language, but you apparently haven’t.

Watch your mouth.
concerned Filipino

What’s the matter, can’t argue without resorting to ad hominems?

Wayne Li

You know what Japan’s National Humiliation Day is? The day the Americans dropped the A-bomb… because you know…. it’s a day of humiliation right?

Kenny

Yea because Japan could have stopped the bomb from exploding right?
ponta

“The day the Americans dropped the A-bomb”… In Japan it is the day against nuclear weapon for the world peace To use Communist’s term, “Aufheben” is the key.

kabocha

That’s a much better, and more useful, perspective on such an event as a military attack than “humilitation”. I think that if a humiliation day were established, the Humiliation would last forever… not very healthy for a country methinks….

The Overthinker

I can think of several other dates far more appropriate that August 6th. August 15th, for example. However there is almost nothing in popular discourse that treats that as a humiliation. Or you could try the date Perry arrived and told the Japanese he wasn’t going to take no for an answer. That also is seen as a date for a fresh change, a new beginning, rather than national humiliation. You are only humiliated if you want to be.
Irene

Well it’s just called “end-of-war day” (shusen no hi).

What we do is we just talk about how wars are bad. And yes, we do talk about humiliation, but it’s more for wars themselves.

The Overthinker

“how wars are bad, m’kaaayy…”

LOD

As others have pointed, In Japan, August 6th (Hiroshima) or August 15th (end of the war) are the days for praying for the world peace. The days are anti-nuclear or anti-war, but hardly anti-US. This is different from the “humiliation day” in China which is anti-Japan before everything, emphasizing how demonic Japanese soldiers raped women and killed babies.

It may possibly has to do with the fact Japanese know their ancestors were not just victims but also oppressors. On the other hand, Chinese then were largely just victims, so it’s understandable that their descendants take the simple “we-good they-evil” stance.

What’s irritating, however, is the fact Chinese often forget what happened after the war. The post-war Japan has largely been a pacifist, while PRC has “humiliated” numbers of its neighbors, such as Tibet, Taiwan, North Korea, Cambodia, or Vietnam, not to mention she “humiliated” her own citizens far greater then Japanese ever could. Yet they somehow manage to ignore these 60 years.

Mister M

I totally agree with you. If the nation wants to remember the terrible past about Japanese, they should remember the terrible past about themselves too. If they want to preserve their own image, so they should not say bad things about Japanese too. In conclusion, if you did bad things in past, dont say bad things about other nations too.

Mister M

While China lives in the past, Japan lives in the present and looks for the good future relation with themselves and other nations around the world.

China cares about Senkaku Islands which lost after the Sino-Japanese War more than 100 years ago, and dont even care about the real problem with tainted food, poverty, and other stuff that afect their own people and others as well.

They talk about Nanjing as if it were worse than Nagasaki and Hiroshima togueter. Nanjin was nothing more than a simple city that was attacked by Japanese that was destroyed by Chen kai Chek and other nacionalists later on. So they cannot say that Japan was the only to cause trouble to Nanjin, but Chinese nationalists also were involved in this episode too, just look at Youtube “A Fake of Nanjing”. China please dont bother Japan because of the Past, instead of that just look to the future and make efforts to imporve your image around the world because your image is not good at all in the USA, Europe, Japan, Korea, etc…

While Japan is a friendly country, China is a spoil country that dont care about others. Come on!! Move on the future China and Wake up!!
edwardhasnewgoggles

That’s a shame, I really wish that they would turn it into more of a remembrance day or something.
tentaro

Man what a bunch of whiners. They are not the only people that something like this is happened to. It should be more like a remembrance day. It’s the past get over it and move on into the present/future.
Kamina

is it called National Humiliation Day because the UK couldn’t save their asses while they’re too busy defending in HK LOL?

Seriously, how long do they have to talk about this? the war was over like…A LONG TIME AGO…people who survived the war/invasion are already dead, stop friggin brainwashing them already!
Pingback: Its Beyond Me » Here We Go Again…
LB

If the Chinese want to commemorate September 18th as “National Humiliation Day”, how about August 29th as well? On that day in 1842 the British forced the Qing Dynasty to sign the Treaty of Nanking. Or April 17th, 1895 when the Qing Dynasty signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki after losing the first Sino-Japanese War? Or speaking of the Qing, how about June 6th as well? On that day in 1644 the Manchurians captured Beijing, marking the end of the Ming Dynasty and the start of the foreign Yuan Dynasty. Or how about March 19th, the day in 1279 when the Mongols crushed the Song Dynasty at the Battle of Yamen? Or commemorate the day in 1141 when the Manchurian Jin Dynasty forced the Southern Song Dynasty to sign the Treaty of Shaoxing, thereby ceding all lands north of the Huai River to the Jin as well as forcing the Chinese to pay a huge tribute in cash and silk to the Manchurians every year?

I mean, there are plenty of perfectly good candidates for “National Humiliation Day”, most of which don’t involve the Japanese at all. Why the fixation? Did the Manchurians and Mongols ever officially apologize and pay reparations to China?

LB

“On that day in 1644 the Manchurians captured Beijing, marking the end of the Ming Dynasty and the start of the foreign QING Dynasty.” Whoops!
Mister M

That is true LB, I believe that they just chose this date because of their pride before Japanese government. So they hate their Japanese enemies, and they love they british, mongols, and anchurian enemies. What a hipocrisy!!!

Nik

I’m under the impression that National Humiliation Day is far from new. Not only that, but its not unique to China. From what I remember there are a number of other countries that have or had similar holidays (i.e. US, India) . Generally, the tenor of the day is not xenophobic, but rather meant to be self-critical.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/bpf/pathways/lincoln.html is an American version, which predates another one we had in the States maybe 5 years ago (the details are hazy).
http://humiliationstudies.org/ is hosting an article by William Callahan specifically on the subject of Chinese Humiliation days. It might be worth a read if you wanted to have something useful to say on the subject.
Just thought I’d throw this in here, since we all seem to enjoy being pro-Japanese on these sorts of things and forget how unpleasantly nationalistic we all are too.
…and somehow seem to forget that 1.3 billion people in China probably disagree with us.
erickgpt

genghis khan easily defeated china back then because china consisted different empires. And so when the time of japanese invasion in 1931(or so). Only if China’d had been like today maybe japan would have been totally obliterated. Before, japan was just like an unimportant land for the chinese and didn’t make plans of invading it because it possess no harm. But as time passes japan modernize into war machines. Now, they are economic house but possess no power in terms of military.
ij487i

“So they cannot say that Japan was the only to cause trouble to Nanjin, but Chinese nationalists also were involved in this episode too”

Yes, because the nationalists raped, tortured and killed their own civilians…

And the Jews were somehow at fault for the Holocaust

Your ignorance is appalling

Chinese city to sound sirens to mark 77th anniversary of Japan’s invasion

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