Monty Python meets Debito Arudou

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Fonzie_jumps_the_shark.PNG

James I agree with you, it is just a silly joke. Well no, actually it is a brilliant joke, made all the funnier by the obvious resemblance between Debito and Dennis the Peasant. But since Debito already sees you as one of the “attack blogs” (his words) anyway, rest assured he’ll hate you more for this.

Next question: do you care?

Look LB if he is really as slanderous and libelous and racist as you say, stop yammering about your gloves or whatever and TAKE LEGAL ACTION. There are plenty of tips on how do this in Japan on the website of….um….er….never mind…..

TAKE LEGAL ACTION.

Tell Debito’s members to take legal action to settle the issues they are raising rather than spreading misinformation and blocking the truth.
They are becoming scarier and scarier to the Japanese.

Okay, to be exact,they are becoming scarier and scarier to more and more Japanese.

I dunnno, I just find it funny how so many people spend so much mental energy defending Debito, org which is allies with Anti-Japan movement,
http://s02.megalodon.jp/2007-1124-1207-20/nofj16.googlepages.com/home
calling female Japanese rape victim a liar,
http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/01/31/japan-letters-from-the-prision/#comment-1373356
supporting one way or another eruro-american supremist,
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=908#comment-60731
twisting facts.
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=908#comment-60835
blocking and banning balancing comments.
http://www.debito.org/?p=1850#comment-166006

And I don’t hear no criticism against such style and tactics from the believers on his blog.

They are becoming scarier and scarier to more and more Japanese.

While in general I agree with you and Voltaire, I wonder if your analogy is the best one to use. Are you noticeably connected to Arthur Scargill or Ian Paisley? In other words, will their actions automatically be associated be you when people see or talk to you? I think a more relevant analogy is those firebrand black preachers in the US, or possibly the relation between moderate muslims and the extreme nutcases who protest cartoons by killing (though in this case, nothing like the same degree).

If speech is free, why do I have to pay for my newspaper?

“i strongly defend their right to have a voice….even if it is diametrically opposed to my own.”

Then surely you strongly defend my right to disagree with Debito’s actions? I’ve never said that he has no right to voice his opinion. I just maintain my own opinion that the way he voices his opinion is having the opposite effect of whatever goals he claims to be striving for.

“How many people you meet on the street are Debito supports??”

I think you missed Overthinker’s point. There are very few foreigners in Japan, so someone who positions them self as a representative of foreigners demanding a change in Japanese society, it’s inevitable that many people will associate his message with “foreigners” in general. Then we’ll get to hear all about the way that foreigners don’t understand the way Japanese think, when really it’s just Mr. Arudou and his base of followers who don’t understand the way Japanese society operates.

If Debito were to hear that coming from another foreigner, though, he would give it no second thought and immediately dismiss it as the murmurings of an apologist, which is unfortunate because, really, I want to change the way society works just as badly as he does, but I at least understand that you don’t position yourself as some ukiyoe-esque black van shouting from the heavens about the way that Japanese society is in shambles. It doesn’t work for them and it won’t work for him.

@ Alex:

“Obviously some of us see something flawed in what Debito is doing”

Granted – and for the life of me I cannot figure out what it is to elicit juvenile ijime-style personal attacks. The only thing I can gather is that some, like yourself, disagree with his tactics and or tone (i.e., to be vocal, openly critical) which is not consistent with Japanese ways. By itself, this is a valid point. I personally dont buy it, but thats irrelevant – its a valid point to disagree upon. My annoyance is not that I’m some mind-controlled debito follower – far from it – but rather that this legitimate issue is buried under tons of garbage name calling, personal slanders, and unlikely claims that he is some sort of racist. It boggles the mind. All this nonsense is supported by some pissy comments about blocked blog enties and some weblinks that magically appear repeatedly on these threads (with little explanation other than the links themselves). I follow them (the links that are not dead, I mean) but they dont really support any assertion of him being such an evil doer. Not at all. Many of them go to occidentalism, which appears to be just more echo-chamber outrage over the latest proof of debitos inherent evil….. basically preaching to the choir. Oh, and also about how terrible Koreans are……(but I’m sure the website is not supporting racism in any way whatsoever if I were to care enough to analyze as carefully as they apparently have analyzed debitos every comment).

“He’s perpetuating an image of foreigners that I don’t want native Japanese citizens to hold.”

How very magnanimous and big brotherly of you! The hypocrisy here, in view of the oft-heard charge of debito’s alleged cultural imperialism, is too obvious to even need mention. But I will kindly suggest that, just maybe, you should let “native Japanese citizens” decide for them selves.

“He has appeared on television, at demonstrations, and considering his position in a higher-education academic facility, I consider his actions to very much have a negative impact on me and other foreigners in Japan who don’t share his views…..”

Hmm….do I smell jealousy? Honest to goodness, who is vetting television interviews, demonstration appearances, and educational appointments in Japan? How could such a scurrilous lying racist character bent on destroying Japan get such invitations when pure, honest, fact-bearing DHC members are ignored? Boo hoo! Maybe if DHC supporters would stick to real arguments instead of childish slander, the actual public forum on these topics which is so badly needed could actually occur.

John, you are still missing my point completely. It has NOTHING to do with the content of what they say. You might as well use Margaret Thatcher in your analogy. If Nick Griffin espouses racial hate in the media in the UK, do people come up to you in the UK and assume you are a racist as well?

Like it or not, in Japan “foreigners” get lumped in together – like with this onsen thing: it was Russians causing the initial trouble, but instead of banning Russians, they issued a blanket ban on all foreigners. The key point is that when a visible minority ‘opinion leader’ expresses a strong view, that view is used to colour the impressions of the majority in viewing the minority, regardless of their views. So unless you can show that the majority of Brits view you as (a) as visible minority, and (b) the same minority as Griffen, your argument does not stand. Now, for all I know you are a bovver-boot wearing skinhead National Front member who just doesn’t like Griffin, in which case your argument has merit, but you have not told us if you are. I reiterate: the key point is that there must be some percieved connection by the majority between you and the public figure.

“So, if their view is not strong, ie weak or even favourable, it doesn’t colour the impressions of the majority, in the case of a favourable view, as positive?”

I have NO idea where you dug that up from. It is a complete tangent at any rate. Strong favourable views may well colour impressions, but since they are generally less controversial, they aren’t as well known. But even if the two – positive and negative – are equally effective (which unfortunately they are not), it doesn’t negate my point in the slightest.

“that is perception and comprehension of the message, which is related to education, and has nowt to do with the right to say it.”

Which is PRECISELY why I am NOT arguing against the RIGHT to say it. Everything I have been talking about has been about PERCEPTION.

You have consistently failed to understand what I am saying and respond by increasingly longer and more rambling posts. This is not getting nowhere fast – this is getting nowhere slowly and painfully.

“So the perception is that..”While in general I agree with you..”…”

That’s because I thought you were talking about the same thing in general, just with a bad analogy. It was only later that it turned out you were talking about something completely different (and irrelevant to the original quoted statement of ““….I consider his actions to very much have a negative impact on me and other foreigners in Japan who don’t share his views…”).

And to get “wanting nothing more than a quick soundbite” from wanting a discussion to go somewhere smoothly is a ridiculous assumption.

Get those gloves off and criticize his divorce and bad japanese some more for us please

Speaking of his divorce, it was a bad taste of Debito to blame his ex-wife on Internet.That was a private matter and one-sided story (as always) and was unnecessary for the thesis he was promoting.
I sympathise his followers who can’t separate from him. They know what will happen to those who disagree with him.

Debito’s Japanse is not good, just as my English is not good.
But that does not matter.
It is just that foreigners should not imitate his Japanese and that his poor skill in Japanese reflects his activism one way or another.

DHCだね！ It’s catching on.

@ Bryce:

Thanks for the advice. I said this topic (i.e., mindless personal attacks on you-know-who) has jumped the shark, not Japan Probe. I generally love Japan Probe and its my ocha companion almost every morning. But youre right, I have paid attention to this because I think these postings (Arudou Meets Monty Python) degrade the quality of an otherwise great site. And I commented brifly to that effect, I said merely that is lame – just my 2 cents. But this topic has legs – its like red meat to hungry pit bulls. And I am hardly a mind controlled minion of you-know-who, as some might like to think. I guess I just naturally have a soft spot for the underdog when I see people unfairly piling on. We apparently will have to agree to disagree as to who the underdog is. Some seem to think that the entire nation of Japan is an underdog to you-know-who’s predations, but I see it otherwise.

“But when he gives credibility to ridiculous assumptions based on no evidence whatsoever (like speculation that he recently posted on his blog that the Japanese media are purposely targetting foreign Sumo wrestlers to take the heat off Fukuda – or something) one finds it hard not to scream WTF!!!! ”

Yep. Chalk that one up for another “I’m always curious of what kind of BS stories these Debito worshippers are going to make up just to prove their point” mentioned in the above.

I have come to a conclusion that there will always be Debito worshippers with or without Debito. Just like Debito, it’s a lost cause.

“And I am hardly a mind controlled minion of you-know-who”

Is “you-know-who” in any way related to “he-who-shall-not-be-named”?

@ ponta

No ponta. I just had a look for your benefit. There are tons of very pointy refutations criticisms of his own stuff on his own website. They range from reasonable to shrill. He even put critical letters about his infamous gaijin articles up there, not just the ones sent to his blog, but ones actually sent to the Japan Times as well. One I just found now says, in part:

“Aside from the mangled, convoluted and inarticulate English that weakens the article, the equating of the plight of the foreigner in Japan to the African-American’s fight for equality and freedom is sad and callous.”

Go have a look yourself (I assume you do anyway). There is tons more, many are even more pointy. But stop this BS that he’s a Japan-hating dictator who bans all criticism and somehow hides facts so that no one could POSSIBLY find out the truth otherwise, except for the key bit of evidence that he is hiding (and the broken links that you keep posting that make no sense). Has he intentionally defamed or libeled a participant in the sexual assault case, as you keep insisting? I don’t know ponta – but that sounds serious. So serious that some sort of legal action must surely have been filed against him by the victim if what you appear to be claiming is true. Please update us.

He may have banned some haterz for using sockpuppets or just being dicks, I dont know nor really care because its his blog. But that’s vastly different from what you and your DHC colleagues constantly allege.

@ Bryce

I generally agree with you. Whatever he says should be judged on its own merits, not whether he is divorced, has bad japanese skills, hates Japan, etc etc.

“The problem is not that “Japan” is being attacked, at least not for me.”

No not for you. But for many others in what Ive been calling the DHC. One in this thread alleged that eventually his projects would “ruin the country”. Reasonably, the post seems to have been removed because it contained the other of the personal BS ad hominem stuff to which I get an allergic reaction.
Like you, I also spot bullshit. Some of what he writes marginally sets off my BS meter as well, but not to the point of causing terminal apoplexia in the reader.

leitmotiv, to be fair, a lot of the stuff Ponta is criticizing him for has already been removed or altered on his blog. There have been many times where criticism has been so quick and so severe that Debito just makes the offending article, sentence, etc. disappear when it’s convenient.
Debito’s initial archive style of web administration was much more to his style than the blog ever will be. Blogs require a certain amount of responsibility when posting (especially for blogs as viewed as his), and on these more public blogs, usually the author uses the strikethrough tags to document information that was removed because of controversy/error.

Ponta wrote: “Debito’s activism slowly but certainly promoting a negative image of gaijin in Japan, imo.”

Don’t weasel out with “imo”. Prove it.

Debito is a troubled man who claims to be an activist but has no activist agenda. He doesn’t act, he reacts. He wants an anti-discrimination law because he can then tell people what they are doing wrong instead of spending his time now telling people how to do things right.

Do I hate Debito? Of course not. He’s an idiot because he doesn’t know what he is fighting for. He claims he doesn’t have time to reply to his critics but he’s the kind of small-minded guy who can’t resist wanting to respond to every last criticism. He has no sense of perspective which means he has loses all credibility.

However, if I had a problem in Japan and I thought I was a victim of racism, why not tell Debito? When you are a victim, all Debito’s faults go away because he will take up your cause and use his platform (as it is) to help you.

Why do people go to him? Because all the people who claim to know Japan and Japanese better than Debito have done little to help. I read here views that “Darling wa Gaikokujin” has done more for the image of foreigners than Debito. Maybe true, but are you going to call Tony if you have a bad time at the koban? Debito is not my idea of a great helping hand but where are the others?

Ponta says gaijin get a bad reputation in Japan because of people like Debito and I think that’s just the kind of stupid claim which he accuses Debito of making.

In addition, Harry, the trouble with Debito’s “help” is that he sometimes help gaijin for the wrong cause in an unfair manner like the rape case. People don’t trust him unless he explains away such unfair cases and/or apologize.
Keep in mind if you want to run a blog that help gaijin in Japan, I’ll help you so that Japanese and non-Japanese can work together to make Japanese society better. We need to understand each other rather than rejecting dialogue like Debito org, jumping to the conclusion, cursing Japan and Japanese.

Speaking of helping those who were “victims” of racism in Japan, here’s another one.
ttp://www.debito.org/?p=1899

But the problem I see here is that most of his “victims” are not as a result of racism but more because of their lack of knowledge, poor communicating and adapting skills which leads them to believe that they are being discrimminated.

Harry: You have a couple of good points, but you are overestimating Debito’s “helping hand” and underestimating common Japanese citizens.

You may not be familiar with Ponta so it’s forgivable on your part, but taking as an example the issue of the “No foreigner” sign in Tsukiji back a few months ago, Debito’s reaction was knee-jerk and he put up an image on his website and decried it racism outright with no first-hand research. He did not first try to contact the restaurant. He did not ask for the other side of the story. He went on his reactionary-activist trip without a second thought.

Ponta, on the other hand, did the research, made phone calls, and expressed some of the opinions and perceptions of foreigners regarding the sign on our behalf. He offered suggestions to make the sign more inviting. The issue was fixed almost immediately. Debito, in turn, tried to steal the glory by claiming that because he posted the story on his blog he was the catalyst for action, basically stealing Ponta’s thunder. When asked why Debito himself did not take the same steps that Ponta did, he started making excuses like that he didn’t know where the restaurant was, which is odd because the location was in the very post-title on his blog – Tsukiji. If you’ve ever been to the Tsukiji fish-market, you’d know that while the market itself is huge, the restaurant area is rather small. Furthermore, Ponta seemed to have tracked down the restaurant easily enough.

What I’m getting at with this is that people shouldn’t feel that Debito is the best or only person to turn to, because he’s going to try his best to turn your issue into a media circus to serve his own agenda. If you don’t mind being used and all you want is revenge, then good luck with that, but if you’re looking for positive social change through the settlement of your own case, then look elsewhere, like a qualified Japanese lawyer. Make your case an example, not a circus sideshow, and involve native citizens because they’re the ones who will have the strongest hand. (Basically, conduct the PR in Japanese, not English. Whose opinions are you ultimately trying to sway, afterall?)

Ponta, can you not see how arrogant you sound by claiming that I am “promoting a negative image of gaijin” because I accuse you of making a ridiculous statement. It’s the same arrogance that Debito demonstrates. Perhaps you have become so wrapped up in attacking his faults that you have become blind to your own.

Alex, I don’t think I overestimate Debito’s “helping hand” because I’m very doubtful about the help he offers. I only wished to point out why some people might turn to him. One of the reasons they do is the paucity of alternatives because, quite frankly, white foreigners in Japan are pretty hopeless at organizing support groups. Many long term residents who have developed language fluency and a settled life in Japan often appear to turn their backs on newcomers, dismissing them as “newbies” and criticizing their poor Japanese. Of course, these are exactly the people who are likely to find themselves in trouble. I don’t want to downplay the wonderful work done by numerous church bodies, local groups and TELL but the Chinese, Brazilians, Koreans and Filippinos are better organized. One of my complaints about Debito is that he is almost completely unaware of the work done in these communities unless the Japan Times happens to carry an article about it.

I appreciate you taking the time to write in English but perhaps occasionally your reading comprehension lets you down since you seem to think I said something I didn’t.

My original complaint was with your statement “Debito’s activism slowly but certainly promoting a negative image of gaijin in Japan”. I think it is a ridiculous claim and said so. Debito is not a major national figure and remains largely unknown to the vast majority of Japanese citizens. He is also a white and white people make up a small minority of Japan’s foreign population. It is unlikely, for instance, that anything he says or does impacts particularly on people’s impressions of Koreans or Chinese in Japan. By making your statement, you are inflating Debito’s importance and influence to absurd levels.

In response, you wrote “You have just contributed to promoting a negative image of gaijin with your emotionalism against a native Japanese who protest evil tactics Debito org is employing.” I happen to think that is also a ridiculous claim. Perhaps you wrote it because you wrongly believe I think it is unfair to attack Debito. Whatever your reasons, I think you inflate your own importance if you think that a foreigner criticizing your statements is going to affect how Japanese people view foreigners. It would be equally absurd if I claimed that your criticism of me would somehow promote a negative image of Japanese among foreigners. I know I’m not that important and I suggest you come to terms with your own lack of significance too.

I suggested you didn’t understand what I had written because the alternative was to assume you did understand but chose to deliberately misinterpret my comments. I prefer to assume the best rather than the worst of someone which I think is the best way to proceed when I don’t know enough to choose either way. In return, it seems you prefer to assume the worst.

You can’t construct your own definitions of English and decide that the use of the word “ridiculous” automatically introduces “emotionalism”. Moreover, whatever you intend that to mean, I’m certain that it would also encompass the term “evil activism” which you freely employ. You are by no means a dispassionate commentator yourself so why demand that of everyone else?

I certainly used the word “ridiculous” in a pejorative sense precisely because I found your comment so irrational. By your logic, if I happen to have an argument with my wife, she could accuse me of contributing to “promoting a negative image of gaijin” with my “emotionalism against a native Japanese”. But my domestic disputes are as trivial as the dispute we are having here. Our disagreement has no geopolitical ramifications at all so why blow it up into something it isn’t?

I would go further and suggest that your readiness to accuse others – in this case me – of “promoting a negative image of gaijin” on the flimsiest of pretexts is intended to stifle debate rather than encourage it. Am I never to be allowed to call you ridiculous no matter how absurd your arguments may get?

Your final paragraph above appears to me to support my earlier contention that you don’t understand what I wrote. I have criticized Debito myself so I can hardly be taking issue with someone for doing the same. I do take issue with your attempt to demonize Debito with an outlandish claim about how he is affecting the national consciousness. Perhaps making Debito appear more important than he is helps give you some meaning to your own ongoing dispute with him. That’s your prerogative but don’t foist that characterization on the rest of us and expect to go unchallenged.

My earlier disagreement with you on Wai Wai bears one similarity with this issue. There you also sought to demonize one man. It is clear that the responsibility for the failures of the Mainichi rested on a large group of individuals who had overseen the Wai Wai column during its nineteen year run. The man you persistently singled out was not even primarily responsible for the debacle. Did you at any time mention any of these other responsible parties by name in your regular complaints? No.

If I was uncharitable, Ponta, I might begin to think that demonizing your opponents or those who disagree with with you is your preferred modus operandi.

To john k

My apologies, I don’t think I’m making it clear who I’m addressing with my comments but this is in response to your post above.

Many years ago I did some volunteer work with TELL. It was quite humbling not least because I wasn’t very good at it. I still have enormous respect for those who do such a good job. One thing became quite clear. For many callers, you weren’t going to help them by trying to tell them their worries were unfounded. They had to come to that realization on their own. What you did first was listen.

Of course, that description itself is far too simplistic but the experience has some lessons for the issues with which Debito claims to deal. When foreigners rail against some injustice they imagine Japan has imposed on them, it’s not always the right thing to do to tell them they are wrong because you can’t help if you start off being unsympathetic to their concerns. The most important service you can provide is often just to let someone talk themselves out. I think we underestimate the need some people have to moan.

The support networks in other foreign communities are superior in my view because they have groups who will lend an ear when you think the world is against you but also groups who try to deal with real rather than imagined obstacles. When looking at the complaints people take to Debito, some of them seem like they can be solved by giving the complainer a hug while others look like they need serious legal firepower. One problem with Debito is that he isn’t really equipped properly to deal with either.

He certainly lends an ear but is often inclined to stoke someone’s sense of injustice when the issue doesn’t merit it. On the other hand. when serious issues are brought to him, he often doesn’t have the contacts or legal knowledge to proceed correctly and instead tries to get by with some furious googling. However people with both kinds of complaints will go to Debito because, as you appear to agree, they often don’t know where else to turn. That’s not just his fault. Certainly he must accept some blame for his failings but we should also share the blame for not establishing better alternatives.

One former port of call would have been the local embassy or consulate but anyone who has recently appealed to these institutions for assistance will be aware that they no longer offer the support of years gone by. In the case of serious legal difficulties, embassy officials may even be inclined to work against your interests.

Perhaps we need to promote existing institutions and make people more aware of the support which is available. By all accounts, that is something Debito does in his recent book. I haven’t seen it so I don’t know. Maybe we need to develop groups and institutions better to serve our changing needs. Possibly a better answer is to align with the other communities. Westerners may not have much in common with the Koreans, Brazilian and Chinese communities but do share many issues in common with Filipinos and also the growing Indian community which might yield more immediate results.

Kevin
Harry’s post to John K at 2008-09-12 11:37:32 make it clear he is well-intentioned man who is willing to help communication between Japanese and non-Japanese, and he see some flaws in Debito’s activism quite accurately .　
I misunderstood. Harry, I am sorry.
But what I wanted to emphasize was that some critics of Debito org seemed to miss the criticism I was making, the points why Debito’s tactics are hated by some Japanese and would fuel antagonism between J and NJ. I thought he were attacking these criticisms.

I wonder why American publishers can sell the book if ‘Sambo’ in “Little Black Sambo” is a racial slur that is comparable to ‘Jap’. Product description of this edition says the followings.

“The jolly and exciting tale of the little boy who lost his red coat and his blue trousers and his purple shoes but who was saved from the tigers to eat 169 pancakes for his supper, has been universally loved by generations of children. First written in 1899, the story has become a childhood classic and the authorized American edition with the original drawings by the author has sold hundreds of thousands of copies.

Little Black Sambo is a book that speaks the common language of all nations, and has added more to the joy of little children than perhaps any other story. They love to hear it again and again; to read it to themselves; to act it out in their play.”

I had insensitively thought the illustration in the Japanese edition of Little Black Sambo to be adorable, but, reading this post, I could understand that the stereotypical illustration may hurt black people. However, I still doubt whether “Sambo” in “Little Black Sambo” is a racial slur that is comparable to ‘Jap’. I can’t imagine a situation that Amazon.com is selling a book titled “Little Yellow Jap” with a product description stating “Little Yellow Jap is a book that speaks the common language of all nations”.

Sambo in Little Black Sambo would be just a name of the boy as almost all Japanese regard it as such.

Another thing that I am still wondering is whether the illustration in the Japanese edition of Little Black Sambo looks to be as ugly as Little Yellow Jap. Perhaps for almost all Japanese the illustration in the Japanese edition is adorable whereas Debito’s Little Yellow Jap is ugly. I wonder whether Deboto’s intention in making the cartoon is to show Japanese people that the illustration is for him as ugly as Little Yellow Jap.

For me and perhaps for most of the Japanese, Debito who is trying to educate Japanese people with Little Yellow Jap looks to be just a weirdo. I wonder how I can explain it… Suppose that an American guy of Asian descent found some American publishers selling Little Black Sambo in the US and he made, as a parody, a cartoon titled “Little White Honkey” with illustrations of a white American boy drawn as ugly as possible. Perhaps Americans would think of the guy as a weirdo at best and some would think of him as a pathetic racist. What Debito is doing concerning the book looks to be like that.