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Abandoned hotel used for ALT shootouts

English teachers living in the countryside of Japan don’t have a whole lot of entertainment available, so they have to be creative. Here’s some YouTube videos of ALT’s in Kochi Prefecture who use an abandoned hotel for BB gun shootouts:

This is:

32 comments - What do you think? Posted by James - August 31, 2008 at 10:36 am

Categories: Foreigners in Japan Tags: bb guns

http://bigstick-freshturd-hotday.blogspot.com/ jonhohx

cool concept but really bad camera work
_kovert

Seems like it would be more fun with paintball guns.
How can you even tell if you get hit with a BB?

helical

Dude, have you ever been hit with one?
Maybe I’m just a pansy but still, it stings like hell when you get hit by a BB round.

Sandy

Makes me think of this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7577326.stm

If a passer-by saw those guys from a window, I’m sure it would result in quite a few disgruntled policemen, a report on the evening news and a -1 on the Gaijin reputation tab.

anon

Maybe that’s far from any houses and streets. Who would think those are real if he is wearing some eye protection and it’s impossible to own a gun in Japan. Airsoft is fun and that place just looks too good for it.

Dragon_fel

ints not impossible to own a gun in japan. what about all the crooks and mobsters/gangsters. ever hear of the black market? street prices?

it may be impossible for a good citizen in Japan to get a gun.

http://suicidiovirtual.net/ Gil

stupid!! i hope they shoot each other and go crying to the hospital. bb gun can hurt a lot!
http://whatjapanthinks.com Ken Y-N

Next week’s headline:

ALTs in Kochi sacked for uploading video of themselves trespassing to YouTube

It only takes one person with no sense of humour and they’re on the next plane home, I fear.

LB

Well, they wouldn’t have to worry about that if it wasn’t for the one idiot uploading films of them doing something illegal…

http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

James, curious to note you haven’t seen fit to note, let alone get outraged over, the apparent illegality of what these guys are doing (trespass for one). Encouraging others to make hand gestures which may or may not be “the shocker”, but in any event are not illegal, gets reprimanded but people who are clearly on private property (and unless they are using airsoft plastic BBs are probably in violation of Japanese firearms law) get a pass. Further, considering what happened to the 4 ALTs who were caught stealing a single tyre in Shikoku a few years ago (10 days held in police cells, fired, sent home) I would have thought twice about posting this.

Space Cakes

Illegal? Who cares! Obviously you’ve never had an Airsoft war. Ppl need to care less about what they feel their obligations are and just throw down… *sigh* So many great memories of shooting out window blinds and lodging BBs into ceiling tiles.
http://www.japanprobe.com James

They put the video up on YouTube, and they even added keywords to its description that would allow anyone in the general public searching for videos about Kochi to find the video. If they didn’t want people to see that video, they could have made it private.

Could they have asked permission before using the building? I don’t know, and I’m not prepared to absolutely declare that they are breaking the law. I’m also not going to assume that they’re using illegal BB’s – a ridiculous idea given the abundance of legal airsoft guns & ammo in this country.

I doubt that anyone will get angry over their alleged trespassing in an abandoned building. What they are doing harms nobody. They aren’t taking advantage of their position as trusted English teachers to trick Japanese students into making lewd gestures, nor are they stealing someone’s tire.

http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

James – what I was drawing attention to the discrepancy in your attitude towards two acts – in one you are not “prepared to absolutely declare that they are breaking the law” (fair enough – you’re not a lawyer) but in the other you were quite prepared to state absolutely “English teacher makes Japanese kids pose for “shocker” photo” when it is questionable whether the gesture is question is what you claim it to be. Further you said you weren’t going to assume that the airguns were illegal but you were quite willing to assume the gesture was lewd despite clear evidence that it wasn’t.

I understand your point about harming others and as a principle I laud it – but making hand gestures, sexual or otherwise, harms no one, whereas ALTs (who are role models whether they think so or not) illegally trespassing on private property and playing shooting games could influence their students to do similar things. Even if their students are not so influenced, if these chaps get busted and sent home then they will have brought their positions into disrepute and this will impact their students. I guess I was looking for a little more consistency in the editorial comment department.

LB

Using that gesture I guess it is OK as a teacher to educate your unknowing charges in the fine art of extending the middle finger – hey, no one is harmed, right? Or teaching them to swear in a foreign language as a sailor for your personal amusement. No one is harmed there either, right?

Teachers need to be held to a higher standard. The line is not set at “is it harmful”, it is set at “is it appropriate”. There’s a reason for the lower tolerance limit, and I sincerely hope you can see that.
LB

Edit (need more coffee I guess): “Using that gesture…” should be “Using that logic…”
http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

You are missing the point which is that no condemnation was made of the trespassing ALTs. To say that teachers should be held to a higher standard is fine – the next task is to determine what is or is not appropriate. One clear measure of appropriateness is the law – it is clearly inappropriate for teachers to be engaged in illegal acts.

If you want to advance a cogent argument please deal with the subject matter at hand and don’t introduce extraneous examples.
LB

“If you want to advance a cogent argument please deal with the subject matter at hand and don’t introduce extraneous examples.”

Hey, you introduced “the shocker” and the tire incident as examples. Double standards are us?
http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

The topic at hand is a comparison of the response to “the shocker” picture and the airgun video – James introduced both and I commented on both. If you can demonstrate how the subject matter of an argument is extraneous to it, knock yourself out.

You on the other hand tried to introduce two hypothetical examples as part of a straw man argument.

And I profferred the tyre incident merely to demonstrate the potential consequences of certain actions.

If you have any substantive points to make on the central point of this discussion, ie “why is non-illegal, allegedly offensive behaviour worthy of criticism where illegal behaviour is not?”, I look forward to seeing it.
http://www.japanprobe.com James

Will:

The shocker photo was described as a shocker photo by the friend of the teacher who uploaded it, and the four people I consulted before posting it agreed that it was the shocker. I have yet to see a convincing argument about the hand gesture not being the shocker.

You say that nobody is being hurt by the shocker photo, but I must disagree. The students that ALT taught were clearly being used to make a dirty joke picture without their knowledge. His action violated the trust the parents, children, and school board had placed in him. Even if the children in the photo are not aware of what happened, the act of that teacher taking that joke photograph and sending it around to his friends was harmful to those students, in my opinion. Some might even argue that he violated their rights, but I won’t go that far. I don’t think his action was illegal, but it was an immature, idiotic, and irresponsible.

The ALT’s in these videos may have been illegally trespassing, but even if they were, I don’t really see it something as bad as the shocker photo. This is because:
-The hotel looks to have been abandoned for years, and it’s falling apart. Their airsoft shootouts aren’t causing noteworthy damage or causing injury to a third party.
-This has been done on their own private time. They aren’t doing this at school, and they aren’t doing it to their students.

It’s possible that someone could get angry or offended by their behavior, but I won’t. Whether legal act or petty violation of the law, I don’t see any harm in what they did. If their employers found out about the videos, I’d expect they might be scolded, but I doubt that they’d get arrested and fired, and I would consider it an outrageous overreaction if that did happen.

http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

James

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You’ve set out your reasons clearly and whilst I don’t agree with you I appreciate you taking the time (as I appreciate your work in providing JapanProbe).

You wrote that you had yet to see a convincing argument that the gesture wasn’t “the shocker” – heres goes:

1. Definitional
From Wikipedia
The shocker is a hand gesture with a sexual connotation. The ring finger and thumb are curled or bent down while the other fingers are extended. The index and middle fingers are kept together (touching) and the back of the hand faces outwards (away from the gesturer).

The important words are these: “The index and middle fingers are kept together (touching)”

Now go and look at the ALT and student photo again.
The index and middle fingers are NOT touching.
QED the photo does not demonstrate “the shocker”

2. Practical
The real “shocker” has the index and middle fingers together because they are representative of double digital vaginal penetration. The index and middle fingers of the ALT and students are clearly separated and could not easily be inserted into a vagina – it doesn’t even make logical sense to claim that the photo depicts “the shocker”.

regards

http://www.japanprobe.com James

Will:

1. It’s hard to position one’s fingers in such a way if you’re not used to it. I had trouble getting my middle and index fingers to stay tightly together when I attempted such a gesture right now.

2. Whether or not the shocker is a practical means of doing the claimed action really doesn’t matter. I think it’s mainly used as a crude joke by teenagers, few of whom have actually had a chance to use it.

3. The photo was uploaded by the guy’s friend and identified as a shocker pic.

Number 3 combines with the appearance of hands attempting the shocker pose to convince me that it’s a shocker photo.
-deleted-

-Comment deleted by admin: No need for taunting other users when you don’t agree with their argument. Let’s keep things civil.-

http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

James

Let’s agree to disagree – I think you put forward well reasoned arguments but we obviously view this differently. I appreciate the civil discussion and applaud you for being such a good host. Next time you visit Tokyo (or are you already here?) let me know and if you want we can continue the argument over a beer.

regards

Will

http://www.japanprobe.com James

Alright, we shall agree to disagree. By the way, when are you going to resume blogging at Nihongojouzu? Myself and your other readers thought you had disappeared.

[Just went through the spam filter and found this in a couple hours back - sorry for not noticing it earlier!]

http://www.nihongojouzu.com Will

The guy putting up the picture saying it was “the shocker” is evidence only that he THOUGHT it was so – the guy clearly may have intended it to be “the shocker”, or honestly believed it was “the shocker” but he was wrong. Read the definition and look at the images on Google. Saying something doesn’t necessarily make it so.

http://www.japanprobe.com James

I did search google for some shocker pics. I found ones like Wikipedia describes, I found some like these:

http://www.shockerpics.com/blog/nancy-pelosi-throws-the-shocker/

http://www.shockerpics.com/blog/santas-little-helpers/

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g317/venaker/snoop_shocker.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_roehl/2170437772/in/pool-theshocker

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/ritters/theShocker.png

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_roehl/2034817223/in/pool-theshocker

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree one what constitutes a shocker.
The Overthinker

Ah, so if I take a swing at your head with a baseball bat and miss, that makes it okay. I didn’t hit your head, but my intentions were plain….

Just how many other gestures similar to this is an American ALT likely to teach his class to do? So the two fingers aren’t lined up perfectly, so is not a perfect “shocker,” is this really relevant? First of all, the photo is out there labelled “shocker,” so the damage is done: I doubt most people will be picky enough to measure the gap between fingers. When someone or some group is labelled, it is very hard to shake that label (flip-flopper…).

Which is more likely – that some jackass taught his class a rude sign, they took a pic of them doing it imperfectly, or some weird guy taught his class a bizarre sign that coincidentally happens to really resemble a rude sign? Motives, motives….

Kevin

I play airsoft as well with a bunch of ALTs. We went into an abadoned factory a few times and played there. JAPANESE people took us to it. If you have some Japanese people with you, you might be able to get out of any trouble.

At any rate, if its abandoned, as long as you dont trash the damn place I dont think anyone is doing any harm. Let’s just hope the lame ass Japanese police feel the same way.

By the way, if anyone is in the Gunma or Tochigi or Saitama prefecture and wants to play with us, reply and ill get back to ya!

Bruce Smith

My advice is that you should go back to whatever country you came from, grow up, and get a job !

Bruce Smith

Yet more proof that JET does not work and that some participants are worthless losers who should be deported.

The Overthinker

Incidentally, if it were Japanese doing this in Japan, would your reaction be the same? The issue here is everything to do with legality, with a slight added touch due to being teachers, and nothing to do with not being Japanese.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

“Incidentally, if it were Japanese doing this in Japan, would your reaction be the same?”

Of course! Yet more proof that JAPAN does not work and that some participants are worthless losers who should be deported.

Abandoned hotel used for ALT shootouts

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