Is Debito Still Relevant?
In his August 6 article for the Japan Times, David Aldwinckle, a.k.a. Debito Arudou, compared the G-word to the N-word, saying, “For gaijin is essentially ‘n–ger’ and should likewise be obsoleted.” And he further recommended that everyone follow a policy of “I won’t use it, I won’t let it be used.”
One problem here is that comparing any word or epithet to the N-word is the semantic equivalent of comparing something, whatever it might be, to Hitler and the Nazis.
In a May 15 speech in Jerusalem, George Bush implied that Barack Obama’s stated willingness to open a diplomatic dialog with such countries as Iran to Neville Chamberlain’s attempt to appease Hitler by, for one thing, ceding him a large chunk of Czechoslovakian territory. So, let’s consider for a moment whether the two things are the same…of course they aren’t. “Appeasement” and a willingness to talk are two completely different things.
On the 4 of August, Taro Aso, in a bizarre non sequitur about the Weimar Republic letting Hitler gain power, seemed to imply that the DPJ were analogous to the Nazis. So, are the DPJ the same as the Nazis? Of course not.
And, is calling someone a “gaijin” the same as calling them a “n–ger”? Of course not. I would think that any African American who heard that comparison would find it ludicrous. “Gaijin” doesn’t have anywhere near the historical baggage that the N-word does: when was the last time you saw a gaijin hanging from a lamppost on the Omote Sando? Come to think of it though, some of the posers who hang out at the sidewalk cafes there are pretty annoying.
Another problem is that Debito seems to be stuck in the past; he’s at risk of becoming like an old war veteran who can’t stop talking about the privations he suffered in a war that nobody else remembers. Societies and language are always evolving and words can sometimes go through dramatic shifts in meaning—look at the word “gay” for example.
“Gaijin” used to refer primarily to Caucasian Americans. Especially during, and for a number years following, the Occupation because the majority of non-Asia foreigners in Japan at that time were white Americans. “Gaijin” could also refer to white people in general, and while it was xenophobic, it was never a racist word. I would call it “racialized” because it did usually refer to a particular racial group. I don’t think the word was ever used with pejorative intent, but it did pick up negative connotations because of the many stereotypes of “gaijin” that developed in postwar Japan.
There were definitely a lot of stereotypes when I came to Japan, at the tail end of the bubble. In particular, there were a lot of self-stereotypes about Japan and the Japanese people. After a year in Japan, my nickname for the country was the “land of myth”. There were the big myths about Japan having a unique culture and climate—and for some reason that was considered unique, rather being the normal state of affairs in any country. There was the myth that “Japanese is the most difficult language in the world”; I remember constantly hearing that, apropos of nothing, when I went to bars in order to meet the locals and practice my Japanese. There were also a lot of small myths. One of my colleagues in that era was particularly irked by the belief that the ability to do arithmetical calculations in one’s head was beyond gaijin. He would sometimes demonstrate, with clenched teeth, that he was perfectly able to do arithmetic in his head. I once saw a dialog in a junior high school English textbook with two characters, “Emily” and “Yukiko”, in which Yumiko does a very simple calculation in her head, and then Emily says with a gasp:
“Yukiko, you can calculate in your head!”
The myth that really got up my nose for some reason was this one: “Americans need contracts when they do business together, but we don’t need contracts because Japanese people can trust each other.”
And beyond stereotypes, there were many cases of non-Japanese being denied services specifically because they were foreigners. I used to live in a “Gaijin house”, which is an institution I haven’t seen the equivalent of in any other country. And besides the difficulty of finding a landlord who would rent to a foreigner, I met people who had, for example, been denied membership at video shops, or told by a barber that he didn’t know how to cut foreign hair. I have endless examples actually, but suffice it to say that when I first came to Japan I find it to be a very xenophobic country: I had never before been to a country where the people considered themselves to be fundamentally different from people born “over there”, as in any other country outside their own.
But Japan has changed. I don’t feel now that I’m treated any better or worse than Japanese people are. The only thing that I do sometimes still encounter is people who answer my wife (who is Japanese) when I have spoken. There are some people who seem to think that my wife is a master ventriloquist who can throw her voice and make it seem that it is me who is saying something in Japanese; but they won’t be taken in, ohh no, they know it’s just a trick and that I am actually a life-size wooden dummy, so when I speak, they answer her. But even that is quite rare these days. These days 99% of the Japanese I encounter acknowledge me without surprise, awkwardness or resentment. And the meaning of “gaijin” has changed. Now it’s basically equivalent to the English word “foreigner” which, because Japan doesn’t have a monopoly on xenophobia, also has negative connotations. I think it’s best to avoid both words if possible. In Japanese, “gaikokujin” sounds more respectful, and in English “non-Japanese” is perhaps best. Having said that, neither “gaijin” nor “foreigner” are inherently derogatory words, there’s no reason to call out the word police (Debito gotten up in Spanish clerical vestments?) or tear off on a diatribe just because someone happens to use either of them in conversation.
There still are problems. Japan hasn’t suddenly become an Arcadian paradise of racial harmony. There are still issues for Debito to tilt at—the government’s foreign trainee program comes to mind—but if he insists on equating the G-word with the N-word, nobody is going to take him seriously.
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I’d agree that it’s futile to compare the words because of their drastically different histories, but I would also say that the lack of actual lynching in Japan doesn’t make the systematic discrimination which lingers in this society any less upsetting. I do not like being summarized so succinctly in a word like “gaijin.” It pains me when someone blurts it out simply because I enter a room. Thankfully, it’s rare and someone else usually corrects the offender before I have to point out my discomfort.
Of course things are better than they were. Of course things were never bad here, racism-wise, as they were in the United States or South Africa, etc. But Japan still has a long way to go before “xenophobic” can no longer be applied to their society and I would argue that using the word “gaijin” isn’t going to help.
“I would also say that the lack of actual lynching in Japan doesn’t make the systematic discrimination which lingers in this society any less upsetting”
What a ridiculous statement. If you had haafu children who could be murdered on the way home from school just because they have a gaijin father, wouldn’t that be considerably more upsetting?
Gaijin as n*gger? Gaijin, please!
That’s a pretty absurdist argument. But for me, getting your panties in a twist over labels and supposed perjoratives is a waste of time. I know Debito gets a lot of flack around the gaijin internets [that's right, I said gaijin] but I thought – mostly – that his drawing attention to the last few remaining bastions of “No Gaijin allowed” places was a good thing.
This, however, is… how do you say?… retarded.
Also, the idea that the word “foreigner” has negative connotations strikes me as particularly Kafkaesque. Though I’m sure there are folks who choose to be offended by all sorts of things. btw, if you don’t use ‘foreign’ or ‘foreigner’ what do you use? Immigrant certainly wouldn’t be applicable in all situations, and ‘immigrant’ itself has certain negativities associated with it [thanks Lou Dobbs!]
Gaijin = ‘outsider/outside person’
Gaikokujin = ‘outside country person’
Debito, despite his objections, and while no longer a gaikokujin is still a gaijin. Japan just isn’t a multicultural society, and unless you were born and raised here, you will always be gaijin. Likewise, I, as a white American dude, will never be female, or black, or Japanese, or vaguely cool. That’s just how it is.
And Japanese as the most difficult language? Psssh. Japanese is hard [and I'm a lazy student] but the tonal languages – Thai, Chinese, etc – are vastly more difficult.
Now, real racism, that would be not considering the Zainichi as Japanese. Or the way Burakumin are still treated. Or even the USA cloned, ridiculous fingerprinting policy of the scary foreign tourist horde…
But ‘gaijin’? The word? Nope.
See, watch…. gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin.
Keeps my teeth white. [Hat tip to Paul Mooney.]
The question is, was he ever?
Peter Tasker put it best:
“attempting to monster [Japan] into George Wallace’s Alabama, [Arudou] trivializes the real-life brutal discrimination that still disfigures our world and the heroic campaigners who have put themselves on the line to fight it.”
I got a few good laughs when someone suggested Debito as being an “international MLK Jr”.
I do not believe the Japanese word ‘gaijin’ is as bad as the N-word, but I admit that young people at my university always say ‘gaikokujin’, and NEVER ‘gaijin’.
So I’d say it’s more along the lines of politically incorrect, but not as vulgar as Debito claims.
Still, I only use ‘gaikokujin’, and so do the people around me, especially relatively younger people.
I use gaijin sometimes in informal situations when referring to myself here in Japan. I’m not Japanese, so it makes perfect sense.
Example:
“I really can’t sit like that (on the ground, legs crossed) for more than five minutes, gaijin dakara ne.”
I can’t hold that pose because I was not raised in a culture that encourages that kind of pose. Because I’m a foreigner, a gaijin.
I don’t mean to pick on you, but one could make the argument that you’re simply enforcing stereotypes about foreigners. Maybe there are other gaijin who can hold the pose.
The use of gaijin doesn’t bother me at all, but “gaijin dakara” means that you’ve summed up the whole world in two words.
Great post.
I wonder if the longer you are here (I’m going on five years) the less you see discrimination or the more you are able to distinguish discrimination from different cultural practices. Debito is the exception, but I think the people who are here a long time without working to acquire the language and assimilate are the first to complain about any perceived slight.
Although, from my experience, there is still landlord discrimination, at least in Tokyo.
I wish you gringos would just quit complaining…
“gaijin” as the “n” word? nope!
i had a looooooooooooooooooooong post on this topic but i decided to save my remarks for the DPJ and their plan to jeopardize asia-pacific security.
I wonder how many gaijin, having read Debito’s article and thinking that Japanese people are calling them nig99er, have decided to beat up the next Japanese person that uses the word gaijin.
Worse, for me, is Japanese people trying not to use gaijin, and instead calling me an Americajin. Apparently anyone who speaks English is American. In Korea it was even worse, I didn’t even think they had a word for foreigner, everyone called me the equivalent of Americajin.
Actually the peoples from outside of Korea have this same debate. It is weigook-in in Korean and “American” is migook-in. Though when I was there I did here many say “migook-in” for any white faced person they saw, even if they were speaking Russian.
I heard weigookin for the whole two years I was there. I would find it odd for people to assume the average white person in Korea was from the U.S. (besides the older generation who experienced the Korean war and thus American soldiers), but there are way more Canadians in Korea than there are “United States of Americans.”
I hardly hear “gaijin” or “gaikokujin” in Japan any more, and I don’t live in one of the major cities in Japan. I think most people are used to the idea of non-Japanese (ethnicity) living in Japan. No one is shocked that I can speak Japanese. Rarely, some servers at restaurant try English on me at first, but I answer in Japanese and they end up speaking it with me as well, and I would hardly call their initial attempt racism or xenophobia. They’re trying to communicate with me based on their assumptions.
What Debito leaves out of all of his writings on his own citizenship issue is that he is not and will never be ethnically Japanese, so he will never be a 日本人. He is a 日本国民. Despite whatever ill feelings he holds towards native-born Japanese who have a hard time wrapping their heads around that, it’s just as difficult for Westerners to wrap their heads around as well, which is why you have magazines like Newsweek doing cover-stories on the very modern issue: http://www.restall.org/2006/09/newsweek-asia-edition-2006911.html
What about an asian 外国人？
If they treat non-Caucasian foreigners similarly then it’s more nationalistic rather than racist.
Yup, same here.
Being white, nine out of 10 times I am accused of being American for no other reason then being white. This I do find offensive. What have I ever done to them to be called an American?
So true. It is really a hideous insult. I too get it all the time. But I love the relieve on their faces when I say I’m Dutch.
This is one reason Americans get a bad reputation as travelers, people just assume that the idiot is American (which he/she may very well be) and add one more tick mark against the poor innocent Yank.
Maybe people should follow Canada’s lead and put flags on all their clothes and bags.
Japanese people around me are always trying to use ‘gaikokujin’ and not ‘gaijin’ but to be honest, I don’t really care. When it comes down to it, they are both the same thing.
People should concentrate on the really annoying and discriminating issues like, as Eric said, Japanese people replying to your Japanese partner and not you (which I get all the time too and, to be frank, bloody pisses me off as my Japanese isn’t all that bad) and also the issue of people not sitting next to you on a busy train because they are “scared” of English. The way I see it, if we get more gaijin celebs out there (like Monkey Majic, for instance) who use Japanese all the time, we can raise the awareness that we gaijin CAN do Japanese and we’re NOT all incompetent.
I’ve heard the g-word used with just as much venom and hatred as the n-word can contain, but it’s all about context. I push back hard when the word is thrown in my face by some angry drunk, but I’m not going to get all militant when some kind old woman calls me a gaijin while I’m shopping in her store.
If an old woman calls you gaijin when you’re shopping in her store, that is very rude and you should be annoyed. You are okyakusama in that case.
Words have as much power (or as little) as people make of them.
If I remember right – if anyone says “japs” instead of “japanese” here on this blog, they get censored. When, in almost all modern context, “japs” is simply a contraction (or shortening) of the longer version “japanese” (i.e. no slur or ill connotation intended – like “yanks” or “brits” or “krauts” or “aussies”).
I’ll guess we’ll see if this gets posted or not, how much power words can have (which should be none – it’s the context that’s important not the words).
VonSkippy:
I know that “Jap” isn’t considered a racial slur some other countries (Australia), but where I come from it is considered an racial slur along the lines of “chink” or “gook.” In order to maintain a somewhat civilized & intelligent comment section on this site, I try to delete all comments containing terms that I feel are generally considered racial or ethnic slurs.
I also hail from a place where “Jap” is considered little more than “Japanese” for lazy people, so find the whole thing a bit mystifying, and wonder if it isn’t driven by Japanese-Americans and/or the PC movement in the US, because as a word it is simply not really offensive – what do the Brits think? Or the Aussies? “Chink” refers to a very specific anatomical difference. “Gook,” I have heard, actually steps from the Korean War, when Koreans would call Americans “Miguk” (that being the Korean for “America” and the GIs would hear it as “Me gook” and call them gooks. Anyway, I think in terms of deleting and censoring, it’s far more important to consider context and if the word is used offensively or anything.
@ The Overthinker:
I’m sure it is driven by Western Japanese. I’ve heard and been called jap plenty of times, but never with a racist connotation. I think the Japanese outside of Japan need to use “Jap” to refer to themselves to get rid of the negative connotation of the word, and in turn eliminate it as a racial slur.
Quentin Tarantino said on the word nigger:
“I think everybody should be shouting it from the rooftops to take the power away.”
I’m not exactly sure who is responsible for making it a recognized racial slur in America, but it is seen as one today. Of course I take context into account when moderating, so a few comments containing “jap” make it through.
It also seems the word “Oriental” is increasingly taboo in the US. Yet Britain seems happy with it. Is it the whole culture of victimisation driven or supported by the excess of litigation there, or is that just a stereotype? I think “Oriental” is a lovely word, but the left-wing whinging university liberal elite (maybe) likes to link it with imperialist attitudes towards the, uh, Orient (I blame Edward Said) and voila, it’s automatically considered to have the same nuances it did in the time of the British Raj, much as ‘Jap’ can only ever mean all the wonderful racial propaganda of WW2.
I second James…”J_p” is definitely a racist slur in America. It doesn’t really matter whether it originated as a contraction or not. The word was used abusively in the past, and it stuck as an insult. “Political Correctness” is often criticized, but then you wouldn’t want the society to fall apart…so I don’t think it’s as silly as some suggest it is.
But then I didn’t know “J_p” was not considered derogatory in other Anglophone areas. No wonder I see it in news sites like the BBC. And I’ve known that the Brits aren’t that sensitive to PC, like how they still keep calling Myanmar “Burma”.
Bender:
The name “Myanmar” was pushed onto the world by the military junta that controls Burma. Burma’s pro-democracy activists (and the governments of the U.S. and U.K.) still refer to their country as “Burma” in English.
The Brits are actually highly sensitive to PC, but in slightly different ways. However the phrase in a newspaper “Jap PM to visit UK” is not racist or offensive.
Good post, Eric.
I think it is an atmosphere in which the word is used that can be offending.
I told this on another blog, but I reiterate here. I was yelled at “Chinese” from a bunch of students on a school bus in an English speaking country who thought I was Chinese. I didn’t feel too happy not because they were mistaken about my nationality but because of the way they yelled at me. If they had called me as they yelled at Michal Jackson, I would have felt happy.
“gaijin” and “gaikokujin” is a neutral word and basically interchangeable. If I want to make them sound more respectful, I would say “gaijin no kata” “gaikokujin no kata”.(That does not mean that gaijin/gaikokujin are impolite, though)
You can make the Japanese people around you call any name— Erikku-san, Eri-chan—Ett-san Erikku-sama—-you want, they will be happy to call you by that name.
But when it comes to a stranger, that is another story. People refer to a person by picking out the characteristic that stands out. “Can you see the tall guy over there?” “That woman with big boob talks loudly. “”That gajin speaks Japanese more beautifully than the Japanese.” Being gaijin stands out. So unless Japan becomes a country of immigrants, I think people will continue to use “gaijin” to refer to a foreigner.
But if the population of the naturalized people who traditionally looks gaijin increases, and they protest whenever they are called gaijin, with more education at school and on the media about various type of Japanese, people will be reluctant to use the word,”gaijin”.
I am glad that Eric has found the relation between gaijin/gaikoku and the Japanese improving.(I’d rather think the meaning hasn’t changed, but the relations and ideas about gajin has changed, but that matters little.)
Yep, as he said, there still are problems. The government’s foreign trainee program is one thing, and renting for foreigners is another. The Japanese lawyers are working to prevent the companies from exploiting “trainee” and some estate agents has started working for helping to find a room for foreigners. But that is not sufficient enough and there are probably still other problems that are facing non-Japanese/non-natives..
.
The way Debito org presents the case, the way it runs the blog will just fuel antagonism between Japanese and non-Japanese/non-natives. Matt’s post nicely explained it. http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=908
I suggest Debito org to start working on the real issue and to be more open to various people, and opinion.
I also suggest Debito org to stop blocking the comments that debunk dubious anecdotes, theory; Debito org is notorious for banning people who are more knowledgeable of Japan.
I am under no illusion: Racial issues are very sensitive, and there are still elements of xenophobia by Japanese and Japanophobia by foreigners in Japan. That is why it should be dealt with care.
I hope someone will start a blog in Japanese (and in English) dealing with the problems of foreigners/non-natives that is more open to everybody. I am willing to help.
I think the biggest difference between “gaijin” and “nigger” is that the latter is known to be offensive and used to cause offence. Whereas my own wife refers to white people (in particular: the term still generally implies “caucasian”) as “gaijin”, and she’s not trying to insult anyone. This is a case where the people who the term is applied to are sensing an offence that isn’t meant: the offence comes as it is showing that they are different–and for most people who complain about it, it’s the first time they have been different. Nobody in the US says anything like “Mr Nigger” (cf ‘gaijin-san’), for example. I suspect that if it weren’t for people like Debito fanning the flames, it would be a non-issue. But it does raise the important point of: is a word offensive just because the person it is used about finds it so, or do we need an actual intent to offend? I don’t particularly like it now, but when I first arrived I didn’t know I was ’supposed’ to find it offensive, and didn’t.
Debito’s site used to be interesting, but when he started his blog, got divorced acrimoniously, not allowed to see his kids, and estranged from his parents (all information easily available on his blog), he got very bitter it seems. I also recommend Occidentalism’s reports for some different takes on him.
One thing I would like to explore further is the habit of Japanese as referring to people in (say) Sydney as ‘gaijin’ when those Japanese are actually in Sydney. It seems to me that there is a very weak connection between ‘gaijin’ and ‘non-citizen’, in that even the most sheep-like JTB tourist can fail to be aware that he isn’t in Saitama any more, Toto (toilets). It reinforces the idea that ‘gaijin’ mainly means ‘white person’ and secondarily (or possibly vice-versa) means ‘non-Japanese’, so that wherever they are, those who are not Japanese are ‘gaijin’. Neither usage is helpful, the first for racial reasons, the second for ‘internationalist’ reasons (it’s one thing to refer to foreigners in Japan as foreigners, but another to go about dividing the entire world between the two, especially when you are not actually in Japan).
外人
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%96%E4%BA%BA
Gaijin is basically non-Japanese. So technically everyone except Japanese are gaijin.
Since gaijin is basically non-Japanese, some Japanese refer to people in Sydney as gaijin rather than Australians(osutoraria-jin). But it is not difficult to understand that for people in Sydney the Japanese are gaijin. In that sense, gaijin is non-citizen.
Though technically you can call non-Japanese gaijin, there are some special cases.
It is not wrong to call,say, zainichi Koreans gaijin, but historically the Japanese do not call zainichi Koreans and Taiwanese and Chinese “gaijin”; You cannot tell them from the Japanese, because they look, speak and act just like any other Japanese. Chinese people who speak with Chinese accent, Korean people with Korean tend to be called Chinese and Koreans respectively…..let’s see how I come up with other cases.
People tend to call black people either gaijin or Kokujin.
People tend to call Indians either gaijin or indo-jin.
People tend to call Filipina either gaijin or Filipin-jin.
……
People tend to call non-orientals either gaijin or Amerika-jin.
I might be wrong, but that’s about all I can say for now.
I detest the word “gaijin” and never, ever use it. The word has ignorant and offensive connotations – it makes whoever uses it sound like a complete moron.
That said, I thought Debito was going overboard comparing the use of the word “gaijin” with “n—-r”. That’s also offensive and ignorant, as his weird use of the phrase “driving while white”, to describe supposed police harassment of foreigners.
However, I have gained a lot of respect for Debito, and I think he plays an important role in maintaining “gai-atsu”. Japan does not formally observe basic human rights; there are tremendous problems for non-Japanese people (that is a term he coined that I do appreciate and like) in the legal system; discrimination still exists in many areas.
Debito serves as an information clearing house (if you’re ever detained by police without trial, he can help prepare for that situation) and is truly a community leader – he’s relevant.
However, the stupid things he does, like comparing “gaijin” to the “N” word, posting lists of scummy drinking establishments that refuse service to foreigners, or searching out the very few bathhouses that refuse foreigners, distract from all the great things he does.
I came to Japan at the end of the bubble, too, just as the pendulum was swinging towards openness and tolerance (the ‘kokusai’ movement). But this decade has seen the pendulum swing back to xenophobia, so we need Debito’s help.
Debito proposes to use gaikokujin instead of gaijin.
However,
1) “Gaikokujin” strips the world of diversity.
2) And always will be: A gaikokujin is a gaikokujin anytime, any place.
Note that these are the reasons he equates “gaijin” with Ni99er
May I ask what your proposal is?
So do you want to be called hi-nihon-jin? I have absolutely no problem with calling foreigners hi-nihon-jin. Do you think thatis better?
Have you ever been detained in Japan? Have you ever been detained in your country? Japanese criminal procedure owes much to the U.S. system:it underwent a radical change after WWⅡ under the influence of the Unites States. When you are detained, you have right to remain silent, you have no obligation to sign a document. You have right to call the lawyer. You don’t have to worry about Tazer in Japan. The Japanese lawyers claim that there should audio/video-recording system in the interrogation room. I agree.
I am not an expert, but my impression is that there are differences but basically if you have knowledge of the U.S. criminal procedures, there is little you have to worry about. I have never been detained;I might be wrong.
Specifically in what respect do you think “Japan does not formally observe basic human rights”?
Debito and his friends sued Yunohana and won the case.
He worked hard to gain the right for non-Japanese/hi-nihonnjin —if that is what you like to be called— to flirt with girls in a shop with a sign “Japanese only” and he won discount tickets for hi-nihon-jin (only?) to play with Geisha. Gaiatsu worked.
There might be other cases his Gaiatsu worked, but was his Gaiatsu necessary or weren’t they just cases where every non-Japanese with a good command of Japanese could handle it?
I might be wrong, but I have a impression he tends to pick up whatever is alleged to be the case of racism without telling the whole story, —without paying attention to the both sides of the story—and jump to the gun and I doubt—I am sorry–if he is really interested in a solution.
For instance, he campaigned for a long time for the innocence of non-Japanese who was charged with quasi-rape, without telling that the accused admitted, according to the court text, that he inserted his finger into the woman’s virginia; as a result, some people started calling the female accuser a liar. What’s worse, he exposed the accused real name on the Internet and blocked the comment that was the quick translation of the court text.
http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/01/31/japan-letters-from-the-prision/#comment-1373356
Was he seeking a solution?
He had a perfect opportunity he couldn’t miss to report the incident at the foreign correspondent club during the campaign;, but he missed the chance for some reason; instead, he talked about his book that was to be published.
Was he seeking a solution?
The accused was sentenced guilty in a higher court. Debito promised to report it later, so far there is no report. Was the female accuser telling a lie?
Is he seeking a solution?
Keep in mind I am not against his cause –if his cause is making Japanese society better by eliminating undue discriminations– but I am against his tactics.
You say virginia, I say “vagina”. Anyway, Ponta, you seem to have a documented and unhealthy obsession with Debito, so there is little point for me to continue this discussion.
That’s okay with me if you don’t want to talk.
Whether unhealthy obsession or not, let me say this to non-Japanese people here.
I don’t think the Japanese will ever support an organization which supports the policy to defend the alleged non-Japanese rapist who turn out to be guilty at the Japanese court, by covering up the facts, calling Japanese female accuser a liar, exposing her real name, with no explanation nor apology afterwards .
I do think that an organization which supports the policy to call Japan Nazi state, lawless country, with a member who would never trust and believe the Japanese, sending misinformation about Japan in English , with no intention to hold dialogues with the Japanese, will antagonize the Japanese.
cf.
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=908#comment-60733
Thank you.
KokuRyu, I don’t know about ponta having an obsession with Debito, but last I checked, this article was about Debito. Anyway, I don’t see why an “obsession” means “there is little point for me to continue this discussion.” Not really having anything more to say is a better reason for there being little point in continuing a discussion.
I did so want to hear your response to his comment, too.
This is a great essay, you should submit it to Metropolis’ Last Word.
People can write to The Japan Times and let them know what utter nonsense this Debito character is writing. After the Mainichi scandal, editors should be a bit more careful. I agree with sarah that you could try to get this published, and get more people to understand that Japan is not a racist place to live in.
Debito has found a trivial ’cause’ and has allowed it to consume his life. He needs to wake up and get a life.
David Aldwinckle is a very conflicted person and would make a great case study for a psychiatrist.
He moves along this path of “activism” because it’s all he has left. By trying to make a statement, the man lost his U.S. Citizenship (which he tried to get back after his divorce, BTW) and his family. This has become his only source of positive reinforcement.
He’s a mark for seeing his face on TV and his name and his words in print whether it be in a newspaper or digitally and pulls stunts to achieve this end. Helping Saitama foreign residents protest against a seal getting a fake juminhyo?! More likely, he flew down there just to see his face on NHK later that evening. And his stunt during the G8 conference was just puke inducing in that he refused to show ID and then called a press conference about it?! Yep. David Aldwinckle is more important than 8 world leaders (rolls eyes). I’m sure if the conference was in Okinawa with U.S. Marines doing the ID checks, he would be saying “Yes sir” and three bags full.
He also intently polices any wikipedia entry that has anything remotely to do with him. Edit one of those pages and “Debito” is there literally within MINUTES to check, revert, and complain.
“Debito” is not about gaijin equality or anything that noble. “Debito” is about “Debito”…an overgrown baby and the white Al Sharpton with half the honorable intentions.
G.W.A. – Gaijinz 4 life
…
Gaijin. Gaijin. Gaijin
Gaijin. Gaijin
Gaijin, please
I’m treated like a fuckin disease.
You say: why can I call myself a gaijin so quick?
Cause I can reach in my draws and pull out a bigger dick
Yo! gaijins say gaijin we cool
But, kokujin say gaijin not to fuck up
But I got to be a fast gaijin
Not to be the last gaijin
Or I have to beat your ass, gaijin
In the city you see action first
Then hear about it later
In a verse I curse
Because I with this to keep my shit straight bumpin’
Murder created by the streets of Osaka
I get it from the underground poet
I live it, I see it, and I write it
Because I know it
And if you think I’m fucking your wife
Your mother fuckin’ right
Yo! Because I’m a gaijin for Life
(cont…)
Debito is comedy.
IMO what’s weird is not if the word “gaijin” has a negative connotation or not, but how often that word is used.
I mean, think about a jp guy who ask you something referring to you as “gaijin” or something like that. Sometimes happen, right?
In your home country when you talk to a foreigner do you say “hey foreigner”? I don’t, it’s offensive (at least in my first language).
It’s not offensive (but has tendency to be) if I’m generally talking about “foreigners” as group of person.. but referring to a single person as “foreigner” is often racist.
Or what about a guy whose parents are originally from another country but he was born (or he’s been living for years) in your same country?
Do you say to him: “foreigner, you speak very well!”?
I’ve seen saying something like that to a permanent resident who’s been living in Japan for over ten years.. but in my country if you say that.. wow.. you have to apologize.
Instead in Japan it’s pretty normal right?
Probably it’s not racism.. it’s just that Japanese people cannot imagine “the people coming from the outside” becoming “nihonjin”, even if they’re living in japan for many years and speak perfectly Japanese..
But in many other countries, someone thinking that way, well he’s definitely racist..
When Japanese people use the term “日本人” they typically think of ethnically Japanese people. “日本国民” would be the term to describe Japanese citizens.
Yeah, that is one way of difining nihonjin, but the concept of the Japanese(nihon-jin) is blurred. I am inclined to call Debtio nihon-jin because he got Japanese citizenship. So if he wants to make it clear that he is Japanese citizen, he might want to say, watashi ha nihon jin/nihon kokumin desu, kika simasita/nihon no kokuseki wo torimasita.
I have a question. Why are some people offended by being mistaken for Americans? Is that a reflection of nationalistic sentiment?
I used to be mistaken for Chinese. I was not offended by it. All I had to say was that “oh, I am Japanese.” If somebody mistook me for an American, I wouldn’t be offended.
And by the same token, I wonder why some people are offended by being called gaijin/gaikokujin. All they have to do is to say, “Oh, I am ,say, French, and/or just call me Sartre or something like that.
Sorry if I offended somebody by this question.
Being a non-American who is sometimes taken for American, I find it annoying rather than offensive. Partially it’s due to the fact that the US is so much bigger than my country, and for more dominating, that I don’t like the idea that it dominates so much that “white person” = “American” in Japan when there is so much more diversity. And partly it’s an expression of laziness and incuriosity.
There is a bit of nationalist sentiment in it, but not (in my case at least) to the extent that I find that alone offensive.
And there are of course Japanese and Chinese who get offended at being mistaken for each other.
Thanks. But can you tell your people from Americans just by the looks?
Image wise, Americans have somehow become the jackasses of the world. The combination of exuberant personalities combined with political reasons has sullied our image overseas. It wasn’t always like this, but I fear it will be a long time before a positive image is returned.
For a lot of people who do take offense to being called an American, it is the same as being lumped together with that bad image that has spread globally.
Thanks. Interesting.
I don’t think the Japanese share that image of Americans.
I have several ideas of Americans, but on the whole their image is positive.
Yeah, so offensive … But somehow I have never seen Americans /or other Westerners/ complaining about Jews who call everyone else ‘goy’ ‘goyim’ …
Should I ever be called that by a Jew, I would not like it. hasn’t happened: mainly as I meet so few Jews.
Dear Lady Gaga,
I think most Americans just think “goy” is some funny Jewish accent for “guy”. But seriously, who uses “goy” on a regular basis?
I do, however, appreciate how Hawaiians love to talk about haole to no end.
Best regards,
A Jew living in the Diaspora amongst the goyim.
I was always told that the term ‘jap’ came from WWII. It was used as a derogatory term for the Japanese, certainly not a lazy shortening of the word. It was all over the place, in propoganda materials and everything.
@Lana:
What year do you think it is now?
“Gay” meant something COMPLETELY different in that era then it does now. Words change – unfortunately narrow minds do not.
I don’t really care what “japs” meant in the 1940’s – today, it’s nothing more or less then the short version of “japanese”.
According to the Overthinker that may be true in the UK, but it’s still considered racist in the US.
In most cases, that’s bulls#it. At least, over on the west coast, many Japanese simply refer to themselves, when asked, as simply Jap. Not really laziness, Asian geography is getting more well known so many are curious which part of Asia ones ethnicity comes from and is asked quite a bit. I think it’s overblown how extreme the USA supposedly reacts over supposed racism.
Excellent article!
it sometimes seems to me that Debito is sometimes hurting the “Gaijins” in this country more than he helps…if I where japanese and would read his essays i certainly would get pissed..and rightfully so!
From my point of view, living here you just have to accept some facts e.g. that as a foreigner you will always be kind of an outsider, if you cannot live with that take the next plane out.
I got awfully tired of ‘gaijin’ when I lived in Japan and I do believe that it is racist, but it has nowhere near the historical baggage that the N-word carries. I have a lot of respect for Mr Arudou, but I think he needs to rethink this one, or perhaps spend a few years back in the States.
Yes, there is racism in Japan, or at least there was the last time I tried to find a place to rent, back in 1992. I don’t know if it is still the case, but landlords used to refuse to rent to Caucasians, Africans or people of African blood, Asians (Korean, Chinese, etc. This information used to be listed in the property descriptions kept by realtors and was freely available to anyone who asked to see it. It always fascinated me that certain racial groups and nationalities were often specifically named as undesirable potential renters. But there was also discrimination against single men, people who worked in mizu-shobai, and the self-employed who worked from home. And any of those people with pets or young children were really out of luck.
As for ‘gaijin’ being used only for Caucasians, I don’t think this is entirely the case. I knew Japanese-Americans who got called ‘gaijin.’ The iseis and niseis got it a lot less than the sanseis and yonseis.
In that case, I think that it has a lot to do with the ability to speak Japanese .
While I think ponta has some of the right answer, I would also suggest that it might be because of the ‘American’ part. And especially since the more generations down you are, the more “American” and less “Japanese” you are.
I think it depends on how you look, speak, act. The more you look, speak, act like typical Japanese, the more likely you are called Japanese. Suppose yonsei whose family tree consists of all Japanese and he speaks perfect Japanese, don’t act like gaijin like ┓(´_`)┏, I am sure few would take him as gaijin/gaikokujin; you just can’t tell from other Japanese.
On a side note, strangely enough, Bill Totten looks Japanese on this photo.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%84%9B%E5%9B%BD%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E6%B5%81%E5%84%80-%E3%83%93%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%83%88%E3%83%83%E3%83%86%E3%83%B3/dp/4569697283/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218719090&sr=8-1
I guess I would have to agree with Ponta on this one. The problem often is lack of Japanese ability. And shockingly dark skin. That’s something you can’t change, though, which is why we need a few Debito’s to help change things.
I didn’t say that Debito can change the shockingly dark skin.
But shocking dark skinned people can change the attitude of the Japanese toward those people.
Some Japanese are ready to accept, others are willing to change, , still others need to be shockingly awaken.
You don’t trust the Japanese you can’t change them.
You don’t talk to them, you can’t change them.
You hide in an exclusive community, you can’t meet them.
Let’s start a dialogue KoKuRyu.I’ll be waiting.
Talking of skin color. the skin color of native Japanese varies from KONISHIKI type of the color to the caucasian type of the color. The standard color is in the middle,though.
The Japanese of Bobby Olgun type are few. He and his children will be new type of the Japanese.
Here are good posts on Japan Probe about this type of the Japanese.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=3523
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=3886
As they say, I am afraid they might go through some prejudice and hardship and they won’t be look upon as a typical Japanese in near future. But like them, I am optimistic. There are always people who send friendships to each other.And it depends on how they will expand the circle.
Landlord discrimination is still a problem.
3 of the 6 apartments I tried to rent were instantly taken off the table by the agent because the landlords were “strict about foreigners”
It is NOT the same as discriminating against people with pets, or sex industry workers. Those are CHOICES. I have no choice in being foreign, and a landlord who assumes that a foreigner is gonna put out the trash on the wrong day or have loud parties is being racist. Especially if th eforeigner can, you know, apply to get an apartment himself in Japanese, you’d think maybe he had adapted to life here.
Sadly, the main problem could be the pragmatic landlord who thinks, likely based on experience, that a few racist Japanese in the building or neihgborhood will complain about the gaijin, even if the gaijin isn’t doing anything wrong, it just isn’t worth the headache, so the gaijin is denied so racist Obaasan and Ojiisan can focus their hate merely on their Japanese neighbors’ garbage habits, and the landlord can duck the issue as “not my problem”…I suspect that this may the the major reason..appeasing the racist portion of the Japanese renter population, even if they may not actually exist in the building]
I learned from my landlord (nice guy) that I had had a crazy shut-in old man complain about me to the police, who actually came several times, I was actually home ONE of those times, but I didn’t answer the door, as they didn’t announce themselves and I thought it was the NHK guy [before you criticize me for not adapating, I already pay by bank transfer, but the local agent seems not to know that, and it makes me laugh that he wastes his time every few weeks]
Luckily for me, the neighbor also complained about 2 other tennants, when they were away on vacation, claiming he heard chainsaw murders happening and calling in the police every night, 10 nights in a row. He proved himself a crazy old ass, and the landlord kicked him out the morning after his 10th #110 call.
But if the guy had only complained about me, would I have spent 23 days in a Japanese holding cell? Would I have had my life basically ruined as I lost my job, drained my bank account hiring a decent lawyer, worried my friends here to death by suddenly going missing for 3 weeks?
Since the cops didn’t storm my apartment or hunt me down, I think they knew he was nuts from the start and just had to keep responding to his calls to follow procedure or something.
But if the guy had been a sly gaijin-hating racist rather than a raving maniac, I probably would have….become… another Debito!
“But if the guy had only complained about me, would I have spent 23 days in a Japanese holding cell?”
Probably not. I don’t think the Japanese police are quite that anti-foreigner. Don’t know what the complaint was, of course. But I would imagine it would be very easy to prove it was totally unfounded (eg “there is an illegal alien living next door!”)
As long as people are just complaining in English, the Japanese people would not understand there is a problem and what the best solution is.
There is an useful tool like Internet through which people can speak out, I see no reason why foreigners will not use it.
Sure Saitama established a system to help foreigners looking for accommodation in the prefecture
http://www.pref.saitama.lg.jp/A12/BF00/lib/Multicultural%20Real%20Estate%20Agents%20List.pdf.
But when the more Japanese support it, the landlord will at least change the sign to the one like
I had a crazy neighbor like that once. She kept coming upstairs claiming we were stealing her electricity. Her light bulbs were probably burned out. She told me she was going to call the cops, so I called them for her and gave her my phone. She hung it up. She must have complained to the building manager, since he came by the next day to give me some beers, all apologetic since she bothered everyone in the building, according to him. He was laughing and told me he thought she would have left us alone.
Whatever…I’ve had crazy neighbors in several countries. Some things transcend national boundaries.
That’s funny about the mental arithmetic thing. Up until yesterday I would have said that I have never heard of it. But sure enough, just yesterday as I was paying a Japanese guy 2053 yen for something that cost 1553 yen, he was all like “Wow, I didn’t know gaijin could do that,” and explained that he thought gaijin were hopeless at mental arithmetic. Of course I assured him that no, that was only the Americans.
True story except for the Americans part. I’m just bugging…
Aw wittle caucasian can’t handle being discriminated against?
Suck it up. Try being a minority in the USA.
“Try being a minority in the USA.”
You mean “white”?
I’m in a charitable mood now, so I’ll assume that VonSkippy was exaggerating to make a point without regard for the factual accuracy of what he was saying. Or else making a particularly unfunny joke, especially when you consider that America wasn’t – and isn’t – exactly a paragon of racial equality.
A news story says that the US Census Bureau predicts that whites will be a minority of the American population in 2042. Not now. And even when they become a minority, it doesn’t mean that any other ethnic group will be a majority. Whites will probably still be the largest group by then. The US Census Bureau also reported that in 2000, non-Hispanic whites still made up 70.9% of the population. As the Miami Herald says, in a few decades all Americans will be minorities. Isn’t that fair, then?
As for the “jap” issue, even if the word is merely a contraction of Japanese, there’s no doubt it was used in derogatory manner in the past. I have to say that I find the word “gook” very racist even if it only came from a misheard Korean word.
And how about “nip”? I think we can all agree that was a racist term. Yet it too was a contraction – of “Nippon”
Depends on what region you live in. In my hometown in California, Asians were 60% of the population, clearly the majority in the area.
Still, I never felt the need to develop a “minority complex”, in California or Japan. Then again, being Jewish, outside of Israel I’m a minority no matter where I go.
I think he was trying to say the non-dominant minority.
Word.
VonSkippy, you’re seriously in delusion. Americans of Caucasian backgrounds still make up 70%+ of the demographics. Look up some data first and educate yourself.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-state=dt&-ds_name=PEP_2006_EST&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=PEP_2006_EST_G2006_T003_2006&-redoLog=true&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=01000US&-geo_id=NBSP&-format=&-_lang=en
Minority in the USA? You’ve got to be kidding me. Unless you’re 100% full-blooded Native American, nobody has it tough being a minority than the tribal groups that were slaughtered during European colonization of the Western Hemisphere.
And for you information, “Jap” is STILL a very derogatory term whether in past usage or in contemporary times. It doesn’t matter if YOU don’t consider it offensive, but the people who are subject to being ridiculed by that term CAN and WILL be justified in considering it racist due to its connotation. Even if there are countries that still use it “innocently” as a shortened abbreviation of Japanese, that’s pathetic. This is the 21st century; you can’t deny that whenever the word “Jap” is used, it’s intent and purpose is to delegate Japanese as subhumans worthy of ridicule and contempt.
And furthermore, idiots and apologists who claim that people of Japanese descent shouldn’t get riled and lighten up, are ridiculous. You think it’s funny when somebody uses racial stereotypes and terms to identify someone different from you?
I agree that it’s hypocrisy as well when persons of European heritage are given racial epithets like “honky”, “cracker”, etc. Using racial slurs (a preconceived notion from the lowest iota of human intelligence) is an indicator of the sort of blatant stupidity that people continue to commit.
A) Most Japanese people don’t get offended by the word ‘Jap’. They need to be told they ’should’ be offended by holier-than-thou Americans, the ones most upset about it.
B) I certainly can and do deny the word is only ever used with contempt in mind.
And just how is the word ‘Jap’ in any way either racial or a stereotype? It references nothing more than a nationality. That is why it is fundamentally different from ‘chink’, which references a racial attribute, or even ‘frog’ or ‘kraut’, which reference stereotypes of food, and of course the old favourite, ‘nigger’, which references race.
I’m not so sure about A. Excluding the holier-than-thou American types, I’ve seen a lot of posters on 2ch using the word Jap to point out the derogatory attitude toward Japanese people by Westerners. I doubt this is wide spread, but it’s also not totally unknown.
No, not totally unknown, hence my use of the word “most” not “all”. But even those I would say are using it in the offensive term because that is how Americans use it to cause offence. In other words they’re importing the US sense of the term along with the term, rather than relying on home-grown ideas.
Doesn’t Takeshi Kitano’s character get rather upset by being called “a Jap” in Brother? (I can’t be certain – I don’t think I’ve ever seen the film) That would suggest that at least movie Yakuza are offended by it, so it may carry some weight. It may seem a frivolous example, but if it’s right, “Jap” should be considered an unpleasant term, regardless of how it is intended by the speaker, in just the same way as if I joshingly call a friend who spills his beer a “useless spacker”* it wouldn’t be unlikely for anyone in earshot to think that a little out of order.
As for equating gaijin and nigger, yes, it may be a bit extreme, but as someone I know says of his work in promoting disabled people’s right in the UK, you knowingly make extreme claims so that the reasonable can instead seem like compromise. Whether Debito sees this as his function is doubtful, but it is nonetheless the role he is fulfilling.
Let’s not forget that gaijin is a word that does away with the part of the word “gaikokujin” that refers to what we all take it is being referred to, namely nationality. Gaijin reduces the person to being “outside”. This creates a barrier around that person that is invisible. In the case of Debito I rather suspect that part of his ire is related to the fact that he is likely called gaijin fairly frequently, when he is a naturalised citizen. He can, on one level, definitively refute the term “gaikokujin” but gaijin is one that he can’t challenge so easily, because for whatever reason, he will often fall outside some grouping.
In the UK, the terms “immigrant” and “asylum seeker” should be fairly neutral – meaning as they once did a person who has moved in to the country from another, and someone who is seeking freedom and safety from unjust threats to their life or liberty in another country. Instead, at the hands of the press, unpleasant politicians and mindless chatter they have gathered pejoritive connotation and become synonyms for thief, rapist and murderer, among others.
What this whole bruhaha serves to do is at least open the debate, and while I am minded to follow the Tarantino doctrine expounded above for undermining the power of the word “nigger”, it is only realistically possible to do that now because of all of the work done in the past to confront and challenge the attitudes that brought it about in the first place.
I love Japan and have never had a bad experience that I can put down to racism in all my visits there, but on my last visit I happened to be taking in a football game in a bar local to where I used to work and I got chatting to an African guy who lived one city over. I was shocked by the animosity he expressed toward his host nation – he was well educated, skilled and capable, but he would never, he felt, be anything other than a black foreigner. Once he made his money he wanted to leave.
Gaijin is not a word I am in the least bit worried about when it is applied to me because I know that as a white Western European I am very much the “right kind” of gaijin. For others it may hit with far greater force, so I think it is right to accord it a degree of seriousness in accordance with the harm it can be perceived to have.
So for having kickstarted this degree of debate, irrepsective of some of the shortfailings of his method, I think there is still value in having Debito out at the far end of the spectrum of voices for “gaijin” in Japan.
*For those not familiar with the term, “spacker” is derogatory slang derived from “spastic”, a term for disabled people that itself has been dropped from use, having become so loaded with negative connotations that even the charity bearing the name had to drop it (it was a once “serious” word so that the main charity was “the Spastic’s Society” – much in the same way that negro was a “scientific” classification but is now widely decried just as nigger is). “Spacker” is, needless to say, considered extraordinarily rude by almost everyone.
That sounds good, but I don’t understand people who support the people who knowingly make extreme claim while oppressing the truth, insulting the victims and a host country.
I am afraid a lot of Japanese will despise them.
If he can refute the term “gaikokujin” he can refute the term “gaijin” ;for gaijin and gaikokujin are interchangeable.
(1)So I guess. you understand how it feels like if you are suddenly declared that you have been using the word”immigrant” in the same sense the word “nigger” is used based on a wacky theory.
Gee the word signifies and emphasizes that he/she is from a foreign country, This creates a barrier around that person that is invisible.
Immigrants have been oppressed and exploited in U.K. “I hate being called “immigrants” The word is derogatory if not racial slur like ni99er”.
(2)There is no problem for the Japanese in calling gaijin/gaikokujin imin(immigrants). But the word will create more barrier around that person that is invisible because people have rarely used it in daily life.
I hear that story often, especially from the people who think they are “right kind” of gaijin. But I don’t think the theory holds in general.
It partially holds that there are Japanese who dimly think white western European people are the right kind just as there are white western Europeans who dimly think they are the right kind.
There are elements of xenophobia in Japan just as there are elements of Japanophobia by gaijin. There are black charisma-man as well as white charisma-man. There are white and yellow and brown and black people who have integrated successfully just as there are whites and …black people who express the animosity toward the host nation.
There are Japanese who feel some white western European people talk down to the Japanese when they tell, Japan is different (without checking the facts,) Western Europe is better (without checking the facts) she should be like western Europe.
Japan is a great country. I would rather be called a gaijin, then live in fear (whether or not the fear is justified or just brainwashed by the govt) like most americans about crime, terrorism etc.
Japan is very unique in that it was isolated from foreigners for a long time. I think they are trying their best to adapt to having gaijin around.
I dont mind being called gaijin, cause thats what I am.
I work at a Japanese company and may not be the perfect example ( I am not a complete slave to my company, and I try not to work until midnight) of a “salary man” but that is what I’m classified as. I dont get offended when someone calls me a “salary man.”
Society wants to classify everything to make it easier to understand. I think “diversity” in japan is still a while away. But it will come and in the meantime “all non japanese looking people” will be called gaijin or gaikokujin. Big deal.
I think I’m gonna get a pocari sweat. Its hot out there.
日本人 refers to a person ethnically and racially (though most of us with an even slightly raised consciousness would prefer not to use this term) Japanese, as those things are currently understood in Japan. One not of those rigidly defined categories is 外人. There is no problem if you accept that it’s right for 日本人 to be defined in such a an anachronistic, imperial-age way. For those of you who wish for the world, and its myriad ways of categorizing human beings, to progress past racialism and ethnic essentialism, 外人 (nor 日本人 in the prescribing and pigeonholing sense) is not a word you should wish to use or see used.
I smell sock puppet in California.
Bill Says:
August 15th, 2008 at 1:43 am
“Many thanks for your column. After reading the above comments and those of posters at other Japan-related sites, I would like to urge you to do another, follow-up column on the term “gaijin,” if at all possible. Why? Because most readers seem to have missed the point….”
“Thanks very much for the kind words. I’m pleased somebody actually read (and got) what I said. As for doing a follow-up column, I’m not sure how I can avoid people simply overreading and misunderstanding the text a second time. That said, next Tuesday’s Japan Times Community Page Zeit Gist column will be devoted to the apparent firestorm of letters that resulted from the column, so get a copy!” Debito in Santa Cruz
What better way than to flame out the fire by using a sock puppet.
Bill? sock puppet? Nahhh….it is just Mr Arudou is a very, very close of Bill,
follwoing 6 minutes after him.
close of Bill,
→close friend of Bill.
…..
(^_-)
the Debito-haters will have a field day with this, but as usual his underlying point is quite salient and he uses a harsh example to good effect in order to highlight that point.
Could you expand on that?
Oh boy. Ponta, who devotes an entire blog to stalking Debito, must be jumping up and down with glee right about now!
By the way, take caution when quoting Japanese Wikipedia articles that discuss racially-sensitive issues. From what I can tell, very few of them are edited in a non-biased manner. It’s often only a single step up from 2ch, haha.
Anyway, I agree with this post for the most part. “Gaijin” has none of the deep connotations that the word “nigger” has, no matter how you try to spin it. Debito’s article borders on ridiculous in that regard.
That said, I find the word annoying, mostly because it is rife with connotations that may or may not be accurate. For all anyone knows, I could have been born in Boondocks, Aomori-ken, raised by Japanese parents since day one and never set foot outside of my village — i.e., Japanese through and through — and yet people would still call me “gaijin”. Personally, I’d much rather just be called a “hakujin”, because, well, that’s what I am. Nilla please.
I don’t feel now that I’m treated any better or worse than Japanese people are.
Hmm… I don’t feel like I’m treated poorly on a day-to-day basis either, but when you start getting into the nitty-gritty of social services, bureaucratic paperwork, and whatnot, there is a great deal of discrimination in this country. I’ve experienced quite a bit over the past few weeks when dealing with paperwork for my daughter’s birth. There is also still a great deal of sensationalism and other such claptrap regarding the supposed increase in foreign crime and other such issues. On the surface I personally encounter so little discrimination it’s not even worth discussing, but there are definitely problems at the fundamental level.
I’d be jumping up and down with glee as well if word was finally getting out that Debito’s tactics can’t and won’t be tolerated.
Oh boy, I should have used a sock puppet. BTW my blog is open to anybody, If you want to talk about some problems that are facing foreigners, or if you have any complaints about me, you are welcome to use it. And don’t take a discussion personally, Jake. I just enjoy it. I like looking at things from various perspectives, and I like and respect people who disagree with me as long as they are fair and I thank them for contributing to my thought process. I just don’t like people with Japanophobia and I don’t like the attempt to distort Japan to pander to preconceived notions about a strange ‘other’,
To answer your question, I am not jumping up and down with glee….Ops it seems Kevin would, then I guess I should too.
IMO that must be changed. However you look, if you get Japanese citizenship, imo, you are nihonjin. As it is now, the probability that white people are Japanese are very low. So as the population of naturalized white people increases, and with an education at school and
on the media, people will be reluctant to assume that just because he/she is white, he/she is gaijin.
It might be nice to have less paper work, and you are justified in complaining to the office but I don’t call a different procedure descriminations.
Sensationalism regarding the supposed incread in immigrant’s crime is worldwide. There are debates over the issues. Let’s work together to see what the problem is and what the best solution is.
I am curious abut what you mean by “the fundamental level”, but that would be another topic for a discussion.
“I don’t call a different procedure descriminations”
It really depends on what those different procedures are based in. If it’s a matter of nationality requiring different forms, like the ones I had to get together to get married here, fair enough. The trouble I think stems from the antiquated ‘koseki’ idea, which is about 50 years out of date and was never designed for the Japan of the 21st century. So it’s not possible, legally, to be treated “normally” as there is no legal method to allow it.
I am not so familiar with registration system for foreigners.
As I understand it, foreghners got registered in foreign registration card. And when they get married with Japanese, they are registered under Japanese spouse’s Koseki. When a child is born, she/he gets registered under it. There might be more paper work to do, there is a different procedure. But is it a “undue” discrimination?
BTW, what post holds the record for most comments here?
Most commented posts:
# Disneyland in China? (210)
# Top 100 Anime List (194)
# The latest news on the murder of NOVA teacher Lindsay Ann Hawker (147)
# Yamanote Halloween Train 2007: October 27th! (147)
# Warning! Top 5 Reasons Not to Let Your Daughter go to America (129)
Okay, so I guess this has a while to go yet….
Rob says “Japan just isn’t a multicultural society, and unless you were born and raised here, you will always be gaijin.”
But ponta says “IMO that must be changed. However you look, if you get Japanese citizenship, imo, you are nihonjin.”
Could someone explain this for me? Does “gaijin” refer to citizenship or ethnicity? Someone reported that Japanese-Americans were also being called gaijin.
I’ve heard “gaijin” defined here as “outside person” and “non-Japanese”. Clearly, “foreigner” alone isn’t cutting it. So what does it really mean?
I explained it in response to overthinker
ponta
2008-08-14 18:59:21
Basically gaijin/gaikokujin means non-Japanese, secondly it means non-citizen and there are special cases where a stranger refer to a foreigner by gajin/gaikokujin or by his/her nationality.
So the racial definition takes precedence over the citizenship definition? Would a, for example, a white who was naturalized still be called gaijin? How about if he was born in Japan?
On that topic, does Japan grant citizenship by being born there (jus soli)? How about by having a Japanese ancestor? (jus sanguinis)?
I’ve read news stories here about “illegitimate” children with Japanese fathers and Filipino mothers, who have trouble getting Japanese citizenship because citizenship in Japan is only passed down through fathers. Is this true?
I think the Japanese have hard time in understanding “racial definition”.That is one reason Japan find it difficult to understand Italian American etc…what?? is he Italian or American after all?
Since Japanese tend to equate nihonjin with Japanese citizenship, and so far almost all the Japanese citizens have been Japanese-Chinese-Korean type–I don’t how it is called–Mongoloid?–people tend to assume that if someone is a white , he is not nihonjin. But, as I said, if the population of white and black people who get Japanese citizenship increases and the fact gets to be known among the Japanese people, people will be reluctant to assume that since someone is a white, he is gaijin.
My guess is that once the fact he got Japanese citizenship is known, people will call him nihonnjin as in the case of Debito (white)and Bobby(black) i mentioned on another comment.
No.
Yes, if the parent submitted an application, and a child decides to take a Japanese citizenship.
Citizenship in Japan is passed down through either father or mother.
You are talking about the case where a child is born outside legal marriage. Suppose your girlfriend says she is pregnant,and it is your baby. suppose further you guys are not married. In that case, either you have to acknowledge legally (ninchi) that it is your baby or your partner will sue you to acknowledge it.
J administration used to claim that since it was not a child under legal marriage,but it was a child J father just acknowledged legally as his child, he/she couldn’t get Japanese citizenship. The supreme court overturned the decision. And the practice will change and they will get J citizenship if they wish.
On a side note, a child has a double citizen ships until he/she becomes 22 years old (there is paper work to do though). Then he/she decides which citizenship to take. Suppose he/she chooses Japanese citizenship, but even in this case it is practically impossible, it is said, for J government to stop the other government X to acknowledge he/she has X’s citizenship. I might be wrong, but that is what I read somewhere and it sounds a reasonable story.
Thanks for clarifying that. Yes, the article I read said that the children had difficulty getting citizenship because they were born “illegitimately”, and the J parent (the father) had to recognize them as his first. The problem arose when in some cases, the children would not be granted citizenship even when their fathers acknowledged them. I think that’s the decision that was overturned by Japan’s Supreme Court.
And you’re right, I don’t think Japan and the Philippines have a dual-citizenship agreement (unlike the USA and the Philippines for example). Just out of curiosity, does Japan allow dual-citizenship with any country at all?
No.
That said, Japan does not have the legal right to force someone to give up their citizenship. You are supposed to renounce your previous citizenship on being made a Japanese citizen, but the GOJ has, I understand, no power or way to enforce that. So you can do what Debito tried to do (until he was found out by an American official) and keep both.
You are of course right, Overthinker, the GOJ has no legal power to revoke your US citizenship, just as the US cannot revoke the citizenship of foreign nationals who naturalize there. One could try to keep both, that is a personal choice, but I for one strongly believe in keeping one’s word. If you naturalize knowing that you are “required” to renounce your previous citizenship and allegiances, and promise to do so, then you are obligating yourself to do just that. If one wants to lie and play games, then perhaps one has no business naturalizing in the first place.
But hey, maybe I’m hopelessly old-fashioned, thinking that one’s word actually means something…
Concerned Filipino: The Philippines now allows former Philippine citizens who naturalized overseas (primarily the US) to reclaim Philippine citizenship. However, this is a domestic Philippine issue, the US does not recognize a second citizenship of US citizens. If you hold US citizenship, you are required to enter and leave the US on your US passport. Penalties may apply, including the revocation of your US citizenship or passport, if you try to enter the US on another country’s passport and get caught.
The US does not recognize dual nationality for those past the age of majority, period. The State Department “recognizes that such a condition may exist”, but very clearly does not condone it. They also do not engage in “witch hunts”, and actively try to find Americans with a second nationality, but the US position is that US citizens are that, only that, and nothing but that.
Regardless of what it may mean to most people now, we shouldn’t regard it as static. If most people regard it as referring to race or ethnicity, we should endeavor to change that. I believe this is why Debito refers to himself as “日本人” without further elaboration, as none should be necessary.
I agree. BTW do you happen to listen to the Debito’s interview with Japanese officers?
debito.org/aborteddoukei062508edit.mp3
A female Japanese officer praised Debito for speaking Japanese well,(nihonngo ojouzu desu nee) and a male officer responded, “because he is nihonjin.”(datte)nihonjin damon.
So the concept is not crystal clear and many Japanese tend to equate nihonjin with people with people with Japanese citizenship. I am one of them.
When Bobby got Japanese citizenship he said he became Nihonjin, and the reporter also said he became nihonjin and neighbors celebrated to hear Bobby’s announcement that he became nihonjin.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=2401
The koseki system is the first very discriminatory system. While I suppose the argument could be given that the rights the koseki imparts on its holder should be reserved for citizens, as the poster above mentioned, it ends up leaving foreigners out in the cold. The alien registration system is no where near a legal equivalent for koseki/juuminhyou in terms of rights. In an international marriage, the foreign party is added as a footnote at the bottom of the Japanese party’s koseki. When a child is born, that child by default takes the family name of the Japanese party, even if the couple have kept their respective maiden names. My wife and I kept our respective names when we married — which Japan allows only in the case of international marriages — and when we went to city hall to register our daughter’s birth, I was told she could not take my last name. It’s one small example of how the koseki system is discriminatory.
Foreigners are also not allowed to have juuminhyou, despite being juumin and paying the full amount of juuminzei. Japan will happily take our money but confer none of the benefits that that money should accompany. Japan fingerprints all foreigners at the border regardless of how long they have been living in Japan, what their visa status is, or anything like that. Cops are instructed to stop random foreigners on the street and card them regardless of any suspicious behavior, and foreign residents basically have no recourse.
Those are just a few examples of the fundamental discrimination. Racism? I’ve hardly experiences anything that could be called such. And while the pessimist inside me screams otherwise, I am trying to maintain hope that the new alien registration system will equalize things a bit.
Jake
Thanks.
To relate it to the topic, Debito was misleading when he quoted Mark’s case to show how gaijim was used as guinea pig.
Mark said on another blog.
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=908#comment-60835
Now we are in touch with each other now by e-mail to see what the problem is and what the best solution is.
So far I have received two mails to prove that the area is heavily-policed area. He also confirmed that Japanese were stopped in the area.
Ponta,
Why should my wife have to change her name? That’s precisely the problem. My wife changing her name offers only a superficial fix but is in no way a real solution. In the end, my daughter’s name is in no way linked to her own father. Do you see nothing odd about that?
As for juminhyou, at present, there is no legal proof that a foreigner is, for example, head of the household in which he or she lives. In my case, although I am the head of my household, brng home the bacon and all that, pay all the taxes and whatnot, I still lack any sort of concrete legal recognition in that regard. Wikipedia even has a section about the problems with this:
“日本人と外国人が結婚（国際結婚）した場合、外国籍の配偶者や子（日本国籍との重国籍の場合を除く）が記載されない。つまり日本人と外国人が同一世帯に属することを証する書類が存在しない（外国人登録証明書に世帯主が記載されているが、住民票と連動しているわけではない）。”
As the last part discusses, too, the foreigner registration system is not incorporated with koseki and juuminhyou, so foreigners are, legally, little more than a footnote in the entire system. What is the practical reason for this? There is none, unless you want to trace it back to the koseki system, but doing so only illustrates how arcane and outdated the koseki system really is.
I fulfill every condition to being a resident and yet I cannot be legally recognized thereas. It is a discriminatory system, plain and simple.
As for Debito’s article, the police denied it, yes. Are you seriously saying I should take that at face value? Give me a break. I’ve had my own run-ins with the police in similar situations and I know far better.
Jake
Thanks let me check some points.
In Japan, one of the spouse has to change his/her last name when they marry. Suppose someone gets Japanese citizenship, and he married with a Japanese woman. Either he or she has to change the last name. Your case that both kept their last name was exception, You are given the privilege because you are gaijin. No?
And may I ask what right is deprived of when you have no legal proof that you are a head of the household?
The juminhyo is not automatically linked with a foreign registration;hence, you cannot automatically prove that you are living with,say, your wife by your wife’s juminhyou. But isn’t is easy to prove that you are living with you wife? All you have to do is to show gaijin card and juminhyou of your wife. No? correct me if I am wrong.
By the same token, the Japanese are legally, little more than a note in the entire system. The problem is how the difference between your name on footnote and your name on the main section will affect your right. So far you haven’t specified any.
If you have foreign registration card, that proves you are resident. That’s one function of the foreign registration is. No?
One of the reasons zanichi Koreans who have no intention to return to Korea do not naturalize is said to be that practically they have no trouble living as a foreigner.They are special permanent residents. So the case is different from yours. So far it seems to me all your complaints amounts to be saying that foreigners have more paper work to do. That might be true, and that might inconvenient, and probably J government should simplify the system. But it seems to me that you can’t
go so far as to say it is undue discriminations.
Well I am nor sure. That is why I am checking the fact with Mark in Yayoi. In his case , he said,
So far, supposing that all he said is true—I haven’t checked it with the police yet because he hasn’t sent me another mail yet telling the place —all he showed was that there were a check point near his house where Japanese as well as foreigners are stopped.
I’ve checked the forum where gajin are asked whether they are stopped for being gaijin. For instance,
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=186478#post186478
From the top.
Japan probe also asked the complaints.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=5036
From these information, I gather that there are check points where people, Japanese and non-Japanese, are prone to be stopped. There are places like the airport and special events where gaijin might be prone to be stopped. But some even note, and Debito also admits, that when stopped, J cops were polite. So far I have no reason to suppose that the police are instructing the cops to do racial profiling. I am not saying there is no possibility that racial profiling as in other countries exists in Japan but so far there are not sufficient evidences to convince there is.
I am not sure of your case, If you want me to, I can check what is happening in your case. I am very curious.
You can send me e-mail.
ponta_at_oocidentalism後八風どっと子どっと字絵ピ(it is ooc…before you ask me….and KoKuRyu if you are reading this, please send me e-mail, I have a feeling that you need a help not just from people on Debito org but also from other Japanese.)
Ponta, your email abbreviation is getting more and more complicated.
I recommend trying something less complicated like XYZ_be_yah_at_oo.co.jp (replace “_be_” with @, remove the “_at_”). This is still pretty cryptic but easy enough to understand for both English and Japanese speakers.
Your current abbreviation requires some pretty high level kanji recognition.
Kevin, Thanks a lot. Arigatou gozaimasu. Tasukarimasu. I’ll keep your abbreviation for the next time I use.
Jake, don’t get me wrong. You have every right to demand less paper work.
What I am saying is that what you described is not the case of undue discriminations and that Debito’s tactics and style is not helping non-Japanese because it does not correct misinformation while banning more useful information for foreigners in Japan but it is helping to promote negative images of foreigners as dishonest Japan haters.
There should be ways Japanese and non-Japanese work together.
You mentioned sensationalism about immigrant’s crime. I think it is much easier to get help from Japanese to criticize Japanese articles that distorts the reality if you criticize the English articles that smack of Orientalism distorting Japan. Does it not sound more convincing to ask Japanese to get rid of prejudice about foreigners in Japan by showing you are trying to get rid of prejudice about Japan and Japanese? (You have to write in Japanese to ask cooperation from Japanese, though.)
The way Debito org goes, it is just creating, reinforcing prejudice about Japan and gaijin….gaikokujin if you like.
I think it was a big mistake of Debito to support WaiWai:it was insulting to Japanese women and contrary to English media , it was not right-wingers but Japanese women who got angry most at WaiWai.
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/michikaifu/20080813/1218612137
KokuRyu mentioned Gaiatsu. If you know Japanese politics, you know Gaiatsu is not the decisive element in Japanese diplomacy. Needless to say,when the policy is looked upon as dicided as a result of Gaiatsu, there is great resentments among the Japanese. When gaiatsu is based on distortion, there are greater resentments.
I am telling all this because you seems to be a poster on Debito org.
Remember, I am not against people. I am against the way they present the case and run the blog. If possible, please discuss the issues I raised among your people.
“You are given the privilege because you are gaijin.”
Not as such. It’s not a “privilege granted” to us as we are not Japanese, it’s a result of being outside the koseki system: when a Japanese woman marries, she forms her own koseki rather than joining her husband’s, as he doesn’t have one, and the gaitoushou isn’t the same thing really, only an equivalent in certain areas. In other words, the reason we can have separate names is because Japanese law treats us differently. Which is fine for such things as voting and other advantages of citizenship. But why is marriage treated as different by citizenship? Because of the connection between the ‘ie’ and the koseki
Right. So it happens to result in being granted a privilege.
I don’t think marriage is treated differently. Family law applies equally to Japanese and non-Japanese. Rather the procedure
to keep the record of the marriage is different depending on whether you have citizenship or not.
There is a difference between being granted a privilege and merely falling through a loophole. Did the GOJ really say “well, some gaijin like having separate names, so we’ll let them keep that in Japan”? I would be very surprised. It’s more likely, I would think, that foreigners’ family names don’t have the same legalistic record-keeping role as Japanese ones (ie in terms of the koseki), so aren’t covered by the rules governing names and koseki.
Yes, marriage records are different, not the legality of the union. Sorry for the confusion – since we were talking about the records of it in the koseki, I thought it was clear. I have no doubt that according to Japanese law both my wife and I are married (and to each other). Otherwise I would never have got my spouse visa….
Sorry, I understood your point.I was going to rewrite my comment after re-reading it.
What I wanted to say was, “Kekkateki ni tokken wo moratta notto guuzen onaji koto ni natta.” The loophole happens to give them the same result as they were given a privilege.
as for the juminhyo stuff – i resent having to pay juminzei (resident taxes) while not being a resident. i have a foreigners card that has my husband`s name on it but not the name of our child. my husband and our child`s name is on the juminhyo but mine is not. i don`t think there is anywhere that it is registered that we are a family of three. father, mother and son. my son comes from a “seemingly” motherless family. and if you think that`s not strange – my husband used to get 10-15 calls a month from matchmaking services – what with no wife in evidence. how would you like to live like that?
I am sorry but I don’t understand why you think you are not resident.
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/nyukan02-01.html
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%96%E5%9B%BD%E4%BA%BA%E7%99%BB%E9%8C%B2%E5%88%B6%E5%BA%A6
The information on the registration for foreigners include your address, householder if you are the one. (well Jake said otherwise though).
So if you have your address on your card, it shows you are resident at the place of the address on it.
And because the administration admits you are resident,it asks you pay for juminzei(tax for resident).
No?
May I ask in what sense you think you are not resident?
Again, I am sorry. I just want to understand your complaint. Do you want a legal proof that you are family of three? Is it not the case that your registration card together with your husband’s juminhyou prove it?
BTW, according to wiki, after the article points out your problem, it says;
“May I ask in what sense you think you are not resident?”
The usual reason is because we cannot get a residence certificate. Cannot get a certificate = not a resident. That’s the idea. I know that the cert of alien reg registered matters is legally the same for all intents and purposes, but the difference is in the name. If the GOJ would just change the name to “juminhyo” then the issue would be solved: it wouldn’t need to mean you have a koseki, after all.
I see. GOJ is so stupid. All it has to do is to change the name from the certificate of alien registration to the resident card (for foreigners)”juminhyo (for foreigners)”, is that it?
I think one of the main requirements in a lot of apartment rentals is the jyuminhyo, so maybe if they changed the name it would allow for easy rentals.
Ponta. Your sarcasm aside, that was basically my point.
Foreigner: “I am not a resident. See – Japanese get “juuminhyo”, I cannot. So why pay juuminzei?
GOJ: “Okay, so now we’ll call the certificate of alien registration a “juuminhyo” as well – see, that means you are residents. Now cough up your tax.”
Just look at Debito on ‘juuminzei’ to see some of the ideas of non-Japanese people regarding the conflict between the demands for residents tax and the lack of ‘official’ recognition as ‘residents’.
Thanks no sarcasm intended. Eigo ga warui, eigo ha muzukasii.
If that is the case, what they should claim is that GOJ should change the name for the card;otherwise, few Japanese understand the
claim.
This is called “institutional discrimination”. The demands placed on the NJ are different and result in a status that doesn’t really place the family on equal footing with wholly Japanese families.
Contrast that with the situation of my wife in the UK. She has a visa granting her indefinite leave to remain. She never has to carry any id with her. She took my name when we married, out of tradition – she could have kept her own, or taken mine in the UK and kept her maiden name on her passport or we could hyphenated the two if we so wished.
She is fully eligible for all healthcare that is afforded to me by virtue of my having been born here and paid taxes, without having ever had to prove it (or pay). She receives government payments payable since the birth of our son. She appears on the register of who is at this address. She has no worries about inclusion on any family registries as the UK ended any similar records hundreds of years ago. Apart from not being able to vote since she has never applied for citizenship, she is treated exactly the same by the authorities as any other person in the city, irrespective of the fact she has never paid a penny in tax (often held up as being the reason that people should be afforded greater rights in Japan – not so if the same does not apply to Japanese I would argue).
When you compare two systems you need to be sure you are comparing two equal systems.
Visa: what visa status does your wife have, and how was it obtained? Is the UK an outlier in this, or not? I know that in Canada, for example, it’s not a simple process, nor I believe in the US.
ID: Not an issue of marriage but of how countries treat foreign residents. No one here ever claims that Japan’s requirement of all aliens to carry ID at all times is a good thing.
Names after marriage: the requirement for Japanese to change theirs is due to the koseki system, which restricts citizens, in this case, more than aliens. Who is being discriminated against here?
Healthcare systems are different between countries. The question you need to raise is, is a Japanese wife automatically covered by her Japanese husband’s national insurance policy? To which the answer, I believe, is no. Even if he pays both premiums.
Have you investigated government payouts available to parents in Japan and nationality clauses on their applicabilty? I think you will find that all residents are eligible.
Of course there’s no point in comparing family register systems if the UK doesn’t have any.
And she never even pays VAT? Or are you figuring that since you earn the money she spends, it’s really you paying VAT?
If you want to compare treatment, you need to compare Japanese with Japanese, not Japan with Random First-World Nation.
Dan R
Thanks.This post is about Debito, org especially about his claim on the use of “gaijin” but I’ll address your comment.
Dan said;
The demands on the NJ concerning the record of the family is different but result in the status that place the family on equal footing with Japanese family. The law of family and the law of the inheritance applies equally to Japanese and non-Japanese No?
Dan said:
So she was deprived of Japanese last name. Why couldn’t she keep her last name?
Is it not institutional discrimination by your logic?
Dan said:
When Japanese get married, one of them takes the partner’s last name. They’ll use that last name on the passport.
According to Jake, he was able to keep his name because he was a foreigner. Doesn’t that mean he has his name on his passport?
Suppose he changed his last name to his wife’s. They will use that last name on the passport just as any other Japanese couple.
She might be breaking the UK law.
FYR
In U.S.
And she was lucky that she was not black in the U.K. even if she gets U.K.citizenship,
Dan said:
You do have gaiji cards on which your address is written, don’t you?
And sorry could you be more specific on government payments payable she receives?
Dan said:
I am curious, if there is no legal record, how do you legally prove that she is member of your family? Is polygamy legal in U.K?
Dan said:
Actually a foreigner intending to stay in Japan over a year has to subscribe to the national health insurance just as Japanese have to.
http://www17.ocn.ne.jp/~lgis/web2006omura/health6.html
A foreigner is fully eligible for all health-care. No?
Dan said;
By your logic, isn’t this institutional discrimination?
Dan said:
You said she couldn’t vote. She is not treated exactly the same by the authorities.
A Japanese will be fingerprinted at the airport in the UK. He is not treated exactly the same by the authorities.
I have an impression that some foreigners are ignorant —-I am sorry —of the minority issues on their own country and of the system in a host country and demand the majority in a host country should know better, talking as if his mother country was better.
This attitude is exemplified and amplified on Debito org.
I want to point out that the majority of Japanese are ignorant of the minority issues just as people on Debito org are ignorant of the minority issues in their own mother country. Unless they talk to Japanese in Japanese, they cannot raise consciousness.
When some people on Debito org talk as if their country was better on a certain problem without checking the facts when in fact there are serious problems , that shows that he is biased, coupled with a sense of superiority, he may be racist. What is worse, when the comments to balance it are blocked, the doubt will be deepen. Because some people talks as if their counrty was innocent, some black people intervene and comment, “Huh?”
It is much easier to talk to the Japanese if foreigners tell that we—Japanese and non-Japanese share the similar problems in Japan and in their mother country and suggest to work together to tackle the problem together . Foreingers can tell the Japanese how they have tackled the issues in their own country so that the Japanese may learn from it and the Japnese can clarify the misunderstanding of J system by the foreingers if there are any.
Through that, you understand your own country and Japan better;we can understand each other’s country better change them for better together..
For some reason, Debito org shut down the oppoutunity while allowing the hateful comments on Japan.
I am glad Dan R talked frankly. I am very curious of UK system for Japan to learn from it and you can discuss the issue further
with posters with more knowledge, more open mind if Japan probe allows it, or you can discuss it on my blog, or on your own blog. But unfortunately that oppoutunity is not given on Debito org.
“I have an impression that some foreigners are ignorant —-I am sorry —of the minority issues on their own country”
This is true of me. I had always assumed, coming from a country built on immigration and one which has many different races, that Japan was far stricter and tougher. However, after meeting people who had needed to get visas for my country, I know that is not necessarily the case at all, and that often Japan is remarkably liberal and open – I was never asked to get an AIDS test for a student visa, for example….
Ponta: “Most foreign nationals living in Britain will have to carry a card” – I think this refers to a potential future rather than the actual current state.
Thanks for the correction. m(_ _)m
So it should be; it might be the case that she will be breaking the law.
BTW I for one think that the duty to carry ID for non-Japanese is not necessary in Japan. People have other ways to prove his/her identity.
Carrying the card is the single biggest annoyance of life in Japan as a foreign resident, simply as it is a near-constant requirement and the penalties can be disproportionate.
Somebody should speak out. The complaint does not sound unreasonable.
Zanichi Koreans and Chinese might help, but in practice I don’t think they share the complaint. I am not sure, but probably it rarely happens to them that they are asked for gaijin card, and even if that should happen, actual penalty would be “suimasen” to the police or “suimasen” at the court.
But I understand your frustration. Somebody should speak out, but not in debito’s style.
I thought this JT letter to the editor addressed the OP very well…
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/rc20080810a3.html
READERS IN COUNCIL
Unlikely material for a revolution
By SANDRA GRAVES-TAKAHASHI
Tokyo
Let me add a little historical context to Debito Arudou’s ludicrous comparison of the white man in Japan with the black man in the United States. Long-standing racism in America begat the civil rights’ marches and Martin Luther King, the Black Panthers, the Watts riots, the Last Poets, etc. As well, we have the achievements of Arthur Ashe, Ralph Ellison, Maya Angelou, Jimi Hendrix, Arrested Development, Oprah Winfrey and, now, Barack Obama, surely the next U.S. president.
So if Arudou sees himself as a “black man” in Japan, where is the rich culture and groundbreaking achievements of his oppressed brothers and sisters? Are the Japanese-speaking foreigners on TV the best he has to offer? And where are the Gaijin With Attitude? I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
Arudou may be free to scribble about it in his column, but due to a clear lack of news value, his oppressed white man’s revolution will definitely NOT be televised.
And where are the white (classic ‘gaijin’ immigrant families in Japan? I have never heard of any white Japanese citizen born to white parents who both naturalised. I assume there are a few, but until there is a substantial population base of ‘white Japanese’ then there will be little change.
I know more than a few. My friend’s son, Mike Havenaar, plays for the national U-20 soccer team.
Interesting. Born 1987, parents naturalised 1994. I was actually thinking of people who were born to naturalised parents, but this is basically the same. I note his parents naturalised in less than the normal ten years for those who are not married to a native. No doubt the J League helped them out….
Ponta, my complaint was not that one of us should have to change our names upon marriage, but that my last name s not by default carried over to my children. My wife could theoretically change her last name to “Ponta” (God forbid) and my daughter would take that as her last name. The current koseki system marginalizes the rights of foreigners in that regard, among others. It is absurd that you should be suggesting that my wife change her name NOW just so my daughter can take on my last name, and any rational person — including the many Japanese people I have talked to on the subject — sees the absurdity there.
Others have addressed your other points sufficiently, and I don’t have the time to argue with you any further. Your standpoint is quite clear. Japan is a great place for a foreigner to visit, live for a short time, and then return to his or her home country, but as I have discovered first hand, it is definitely not a place for a foreigner to make a permanent home. Hopefully the immense need for large-scale immigration over the coming decades will remedy this, but by that time I will be long gone.
Jake Thanks.
The current system is that if J and U marries, they have to choose either J or U. Suppose they chose U and a child was born. The child’s last name will U. Suppose they want to change the last name to J. Through the court system, they can.
In your case, if you wanted your baby to have your last name by default, all you had to do was to change her name to your last name before the baby was born. Then your “last name s”" by default carried over to my children”.
I’ve never talked about how japan is like as a place to visit,live for short time. I wonder why my standpoint is quite clear.
That is your opinion, and I respect your opinion.
It is regreatable you will be long gone, But if that is your decision, I respect it.
By the way don’t get me wrong, I am not the one who disagrees with every thing Debito says. He sometimes gives a good advice.
Ponta, I don’t really agree with:
I think what Jake is getting at is that he wants a system where it’s possible for the child to be named after the foreign parent without having to change the name of the girlfriend/spouse. One example I can think of is where the parents are not married. In the US, either parent can give their child their last name, and if there is a dispute, you go to court and the judge will determine the last name. In Japan it is always restricted to whomever has the koseki registration, i.e. the Japanese parent.
I don’t think it’s so wrong to want a more flexible system that allows either parent to give the child their last name independently of the other parent. Obviously it’s possible to change a wife’s name to match the husbands’, or vice-versa, but if they aren’t married yet, a name change is impossible.
Kevin
Thanks.
Your suggestion is worth a consideration;it is certainly not wrong for Japanese as well as non-Japanese to want more flexible system.
But the point we are discussing is whether the system as it is is an example of the fundamental discrimination as Jake suggests.
When Japanese couple, J and U, marries,and if they want their child to have U’s last name, all they have to do is to take U’s last name as their last name.
When Japanese J and non=Japanese N marries and if they want their child to have the N’s last name. all they have to do is to take the N’s last name as their last name.
Japanese and non-Japanese have an equal right to the last name, though the procedure is different.
I see no fundamental discrimination here;though, an demand to simplify the procedure may be justified.
How does it work for Japanese people? Like for example, when two Japanese people get married, do they both have to take the same last name? Or, are they allowed to keep their original names?
If the Japanese parents are allowed to keep their original last names and then choose which last name the child gets, then the current system for foreigner/Japanese is unequal, hence discrimination.
However, if the Japanese parents have to take the same last name and the child also takes the same last name, then the foreigner/Japanese system is just following those rules – the difference being that parents are allowed to keep their original last names.
What happens when a Japanese couple divorces? Which last name does the child get in these kinds of cases?
Japanese have to choose one:
「夫婦同氏原則」（民法750条）”Basic Law on Same Surname for Husband and Wife” states this. In many cases a wife (as it’s almost always the husband’s name taken) can use her maiden name in most things, but it has no legal standing. The issue has a long entry in Wikipedia Japan, which suggests it is of some concern to a lot of people – look up “夫婦別姓”.
This is the case.
As a rule, the child’s last name does not change.But the child can change the last name to the parent’s last name with whom she/he is living.
http://www.1rikonsoudan.com/12/post_91.html
( The things is more complicated than this, though. Suppose J tarou and K hanako marry and takes J’s name as a last name and have a child. Then
the child’s last name will be J. Suppose further that they divorces The child’s last name won’t change;it will be J.As a rule, hanako will have the previous last name K back,in other words, her last name will be K again, but child’s last name will be J, but if K hanako lives with her child, that is inconvenient, so the child can change the last name to K. But hanako can also keep J as a last name if she wishes(there is paper work to do). This happens for several reasons; she likes the last name, she is already known for her last name J etc.)
If the current system for dealing with the foreigner/Japanese couple is being treated in the same way as normal Japanese couples, than I don’t see how it can be considered discrimination. When the couple gets married, they have the right to change their last name and therefore give their child the same last name, but if the couple chooses not to change their last name, then the system is just following the law of the land.
The only trouble I can see arising is in terms of divorce. What happens when a foreigner/Japanese couple gets a divorce and the foreigner gets custody of the child – can the last name of the child be changed to the last name of the foreigner?
Now all that being said, whether or not this is a good law is a totally different subject. The biggest problem that I see in the current system is that there are too many inconsistencies when you start to consider the changes in modern society – like, what Overthinker mentioned up above (夫婦別姓).
I called a ward office. The short answer is yes.
(Suppose the child’s last name is J. When the parent want the child to change the last name to his/her previous name K , he/she –Japanese or non-Japanese, will go through the court procedure to change the name. In case of Japanese, the child will be registered under the parent name K in Koseki. In case of a foreigner , since there is no Koseki for the foreigner, but the child has Japanese citizenship (and whatever nationality his/her parent happen to hold), Koreseki will be created for the child and the child will be 筆頭者 the head of K in Koseki.)
Thanks for making the call. I can’t really see any problems with all of this. It’s obviously a bigger pain in the butt
but not really discrimination. I can imagine that some people would feel put out at having their child be the head of the family and being relegated to a by-line on the “koreseki” but as long as this arrangement doesn’t affect anything, then it’s not a problem.
The koseki system is just too complicated for its own good. At first I thought it was being used to keep detailed records of a family lineage, but since only around 2 generations are kept on file at any time, I really don’t see any advantages of keeping the system in place (other than to avoid confusion).
Is the head of a koseki really the “head of the family”? In marriage, at least, although my wife has her own koseki and is head of her own koseki (of one), the details put my name as “世帯主”, head of the household.
I don’t really know what happens with the koreseki as Ponta mentioned above. It’s obviously a branch-off of the original koseki, but I’m not really familiar with the differences between 筆頭者 and 世帯主. I’m assuming that in this case 世帯主 is probably similar to guardian, but I have absolutely no clue what kind of impact any of this would have on anything.
Oh, I see what you were saying- “Head of the household” as compared to “head of the family”. Yeah, you’re right about that.
Setainushi is the head of household, who usually supports the household.
And a guardian is still different concept.
Technically it is possible that J is a guardian of his child while his child’s last name is K.
Koseki counts for Japanese, for instance, to decide who has a right to inherit the property.(souzoku)
http://tantei.web.infoseek.co.jp/koseki/gensoku.html
Hmmm… is it just me or have posts been trimmed?
trimmed?
There was a post close to the top about Debito’s using a 12th century meaning of “Gaijin” as an argument as to why it shouldn’t be used today, and a response to that post referencing the original meaning of “nice” as a further example, but neither of those seem to be there now.
I’ve been having problems posting from home, I keep getting blocked by the spam filter, but I know there were two posts by me that made it up late last week and were up on Saturday (the last time I checked in).
I don’t recall deleting that comment, but it’s possible the spam filter may have eaten it up. Because of the huge volume of spam comments received each day, I can only go a couple days back in the records to check, and I couldn’t find any comments from this thread.
Instead of being repeatedly blocked by the spam filter, notify me immediately by e-mail and I’ll recover your comments. Continually submitting comments that get eaten will only make the spam filter’s behavior worse.
I can’t think that comment would have been deleted, as it was actually on topic and quite interesting. It had an URL in it, which might be why. I actually replied to that comment, and I think my reply has gone AWOL as well. Could it be that a comment can appear for a day or two and then get eaten by the spam filter?
Arudou’s knee-jerk reaction to the term ‘gaijin’ is trivial at best and extremely damaging at worse. I only wish he didn’t have such a prominent public platform with which to broadcast his myopic assessment. It’s a disservice to those who are not familiar with the history of Blacks in America, not to mention those who are the carriers of that history, to liken the word ‘gaijin’ to the ‘n-word’–the comparison is dishonest and doesn’t hold any water.
You can read the rest of my reaction here
I hope it’s ok to add a link to someone’s blog; it expresses a view I hold on the word gaijin in a much better way than I could have done . It’s written by D on his “Japan without the sugar” site which I find very entertaining and informative.
http://japanlost.blogspot.com/2004/08/gaijinurrrrg-i-despise-that-word.html
While gaijin might not rise to the level of “N-ger,” it easily is equivalent to something like “Negro,” which will garner offense. You even point out that gaikokujin is the term used on TV–why the distinction if it’s OK? Most people I know here don’t like the term being directed at them by Japanese, and Japanese hate it when you direct the term at them when they are overseas. And that’s really how you determine the appropriateness of a label: How does it make the recipient feel? Sorry, but your apology for the word just doesn’t cut it, as it’s not some kind of switch we can just turn off because you and other Japanese say it’s okay.