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21 Snow Whites Can’t Be Wrong

Or, more accurately, 21 angry parents hold a lot of sway these days in Japan.

Okay, tongue in cheek critique of Japan in hazy terms time: Japanese parents suck at parenting. Obviously that is a gross generalization, stated more to provoke thought that close minds, but let me lay out some totally convincing bullet points:

Parents spoil kids like crazy here. Grandparents help.

Super strong boys-will-be-boys culture.

Children often share beds with their parents until age 10.

Parents leave the lions share of moral education and discipline in the hands of school teachers.

If a person elects to become a dropout, hikikomori, or NEET, mom and dad let them live at home and provide them meals.

Parents form harassment mobs when they don’t like how the teacher is doing things. This is called good parenting.

Oh that last one is kind of a new one on me, but I’m gonna roll it around in my proverbial can of “Japan is a bit off” stereotypes for a while from now on. Case in point: Recently a school caved to parent demands and made 21 Snow Whites for the eponymous lead roll in a play, because one wasn’t fair. I hope it was a comedy. I hope the parents were demanding a farce, a gross parody of a school play for the derisive laughter of the world, because that is what they’ve reaped.

The article for this story goes on to say that parents are increasingly raising alarmist voices, forming mom mobs, and harassing until they get their way and every child supposedly gets what is best and most ego-protecting for them. Read and get frustrated.

On the other hand, in this era of ijime (bullying), death-pact websites, and suicide methods that kill bystanders, parent involvement in their children’s lives is more important than ever. I just find it hard to believe that parents in modern Japan are going about this the right way. Not that parents in the rest of the world are exactly doing a great job either.

13 comments - What do you think? Posted by Claytonian - June 9, 2008 at 5:04 pm

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http://www.feitclub.com feitclub

Parents leave the lions share of moral education and discipline in the hands of school teachers.

…which frightens the hell out of me. I work in elementary schools and the children have virtually no limitations. They can fight each other in the classroom, they can damage school property, and they can treat the teachers like shit and make a scene in class, ruining lessons for all the other students. No one ever gets sent out of the room to the principal or anything, and so far as I can tell no one ever calls home to tell the parents what’s happening.

Somehow, somewhere, this seems to balance out and I don’t know why. Maybe the exam hell of middle and high school forces everybody to take school seriously and to stop tormenting each other. Maybe the teachers and parents DO talk about what happens at school, but it’s all done behind closed doors and the kids get punished at home.

Or maybe, everyone is telling themselves “This is how I was raised and I turned out OK” even though the world is a different place now, where kids need to be learning more at an earlier age.
Bran

The effects of Communitarian policy. Placing Community values above individual/family relationships and denying the validity of any absolute morality.

Japanese Politicians use rampant “individualism” as the whipping boy for social ills from suicide to violent assaults but its precisely because of a lack of individual attentiuon to both dreams and aspirations and personal, rather than group, morality that things are getting increasingly worse here.

The education system from elementary through to university is a shambles that actively works to prevent any formation of critical thinking. The fact that any Japanese people amke it through while retaining either imagination or personal ambition is a testament far more to the indefatigability of the human spirit rather than any positive elements of the social experience here.

The truly scary thing is that Communitarian ideology is the dominant view in both US and European politics and Japan is exactly the kind of passive sheep-like civic population that give Western power-brokers wet dreams.

http://pontasmemorandum.blogspot.com/ ponta

Though I agree the Japanese education has much to be improved, I am afraid your comment is too simplistic.

Why do you think monster parents are result of Japanese communitarian-ism?The monster parents put their children before public morality.
Are you thinking critically ?

What makes you think the Japanese are ” passive sheep-like civic population”?
Are you thinking critically?

Prove that Japanese education contributed nothing to the Japanese retaining imagination or personal ambition.
Are you thinking critically?

Prove that the Japanese society as it is a communitarian as Sandel or MacIntyre defined it.
Are you thinking critically?

Aren’t you just expressing the disgust against Japanese society?

http://dd one

It is a good thing that the parents are finally complaining to the schools. BUT they always seem to be complaining about the wrong things and believe everything their children tell them. This gets teachers in trouble for all the wrong reasons.

I see someone up there talking about “exam hell”. The truth is that they have the same amount of exams that their american counterparts have. Unlike american kids tho, they NEVER have to write a long research report or any other long term projects. The schools teach so little material that most japanese students have to go to a second school [juku] to pass exams to get into high school and have to continue going to juku a few months a year just to make it through. Most schools have 4 hours of classes 4 days a week with the rest of the time being spent on “club activities”. The parents should be complaining about having to spend about $250 a month to a second school that is teaching things that could be taught in regular day school.

http://surrealu.blogspot.com Claytonian

Agreed there. Things like the school songs all the time and class meetings are a bit time-wasting too.

Bran

“Prove that the Japanese society as it is a communitarian as Sandel or MacIntyre defined it.
Are you thinking critically?
Aren’t you just expressing the disgust against Japanese society?”

The question “are you” is a reasonable and polite enquiry, “aren’t you” is presumptive and borderline arrogant.

While, in their responses to Rawls Theory of Justice, Sadler and McKenzie published ideas that contributed to the identification of Communitarianism as an ideology, neither of them identify themselves as Communitarian thinkers and they certainly didn’t define the movement. You might be better off referencing someone like Amitai Etzioni, the preeminent American exponent (and author of Bush’s pre-9/11 Communities of Character program of social revitalization)

The idea of Japan being Communitarian in nature is self-evident to anyone who understands the basic meaning of the term as essentialized in Hegel’s juxtaposition of Moralitat and Sittlichkeit, focus on the group over the individual. Regarding the later idea’s of Communitarian thought, Taylor’s view that societies might be just by internal standards, an idea whose flaws soon became clear with Walzer’s use of Indian caste systems as an example, matches perfectly with the Japanese nihonjinron concept that continues to exert powerful influence on society here.

Though not directly influenced by the pre-modern European Communitarianism, Japan’s communitarian heritage stretches back even further through history, from to the medieval system of communal punishment and the 1920’s Peace Law and the development of a specific branch of the Tokko responsible for “Thought Crimes”, i.e. ideological subversion, the process of Tenko as a rehabilitory system and the use of Tonari-gumi to implement a highly effective and omnipresent citizen informant network. Following the war the US backed efforts to crush communism saw the repression and neutering of worker and student activist groups in the late 60’s and early 70’s after which conformity became even more the mantra of an economically confident society. In the 90’s this tied in again with the notion of Asian Values and further moral relativity.

Going back to Etzioni though we have one of the leading modern Communitarian scholars actually saying that Japan goes too far in the Communitarian way and that it excessively, even by their standards, imbalances the rights of the group over the individual.

Your other “are you thinking critically” repetitions can easily be clarified by learning a little more about the principles of Communitarian social change and realizing that Japan is indeed hugely influenced by Communitarian opposition to absolute moral codes, group consensus, preservation of closed societies and centralized authoritarian control.

As for your very final comment, my disgust for Japanese society, as with that of any other country is reserved for those aspects which deserve it. It is by no means all-encompassing and to suggest such is the weak kind of ad hominem deflection that suggests the author is unsure of his own grasp of the subject in question.

http://pontasmemorandum.blogspot.com/ ponta

“The question “are you” is a reasonable and polite enquiry, “aren’t you” is presumptive and borderline arrogant.”

-Ops, sorry , I just didn’t know the nuance of English.

The idea of Japan being Communitarian in nature is self-evident to anyone who understands the basic meaning of the term as essentialized in Hegel’s juxtaposition of Moralitat and Sittlichkeit, focus on the group over the individual.

Certainly Japanese Hegelian and Marxist would be hilarious to hear that
Japanese society is in the right direction to the absolute spirit.
But Bran, not many things are self-evident, you need to argue critically. And the meaning of terms　such as “Moratat” and “Sitlechkeit” are not self -evident at all; it differs from scholar to scholar. And Hegel is notorious philosopher whose technical terms is difficult to interpret:Some even say they don’t even make sense. The reference to ambiguous concept does not help.

from to the medieval system of communal punishment and the 1920’s Peace Law and the development of a specific branch of the Tokko responsible for “Thought Crimes”, i.e. ideological subversion, the process of Tenko as a rehabilitory system and the use of Tonari-gumi to implement a highly effective and omnipresent citizen informant network.

Okay,you refered to Amitai Etzioni, whom–I am sorry— I don’t know. Does he adovcate communal punishment? And I don’t understand why “tenkou” counts as an example of communitarianism.

Going back to Etzioni though we have one of the leading modern Communitarian scholars actually saying that Japan goes too far in the Communitarian way and that it excessively

So after all Japan is not an society with “western power-brokers wet dreams.
By the way could you quote this Etzioni saying Japan went too far in the communitarian way?

Your other “are you thinking critically” repetitions can easily be clarified by learning a little more about the principles of Communitarian social change and realizing that Japan is indeed hugely influenced by Communitarian

You are begging question. My repetitions can be only clarified by answering my questions.
(Incidentally you attitude sounds like authoritarian; you lern more, you understand it.But that is not crtical thinking, isn’t it?)

My question was not asking you to lecture on Communitarianism. My questions was why you think monster parents exemplify Communitarianism.

Why makes you think Japanese are passive sheep-like civic population”?
—And is this matapher,”Japaense as sheep” appropriate? Is western people as wolfs appropriate? It seems that the phrase is very emotive and negative and and you are overgenelizing.

And another question was, “What makes you think Japanese education contributed nothing to the Japanese retaining imagination or personal ambition?”

Okay I’ll admit Sandel or MacIntyre might not be Communitarian you had in mind. You seems to define communitarianism as an ideology “placing Community values above individual/family relationships and denying the validity of any absolute morality.” It is just that I’ve never heard of that kind of communitarian. (Notice even moral absolutism can admit that cultural difference should be taken into account. Even individualist can hold family ties and community value in high regard , as agaiinst egoists who always put priority on his interest.)
But is that your definition?
If so, isn’t it obvious the Japanese monster parents put family relation before community value, No?
mozu

Communitarianism is very american thought and its automatical application to Japan seems risky. As I believe you know, the notion kyodoshugi(協同主義) was sometimes used within Japanese context.

As for the influence of nihon(jin)ron, my appreciation is very different from you. First, while you seem to believe in what they say about Japan, nihon(jin)ron is not descriptive discourse, but normative one. Second, if it is so powerful, why do they cry so eagerly? Every sociologist confirms the weaking or collapse of the community, the family and the paternalistic company.

Your comment is interesting because many brits say this is the bad effect of Americanism in comment section of Times. And I saw some American conservatives think this is the leftists’ tactics. Yeah, people see only what they want.

Lei

japanese households are still better than most american ones. In exchange for spoiling the kids, the parents demand high grades and that’s fair enough for me. Even teens in japan work part time jobs instead of asking for huge sums of money from their parents. Life is tough for japanese kids as their lives circle on exams until they graduate. Then they work and its another round of stress.

In the US kids are really more independent but the independence has caused a lot of misfortunes such as premarital sex and getting pregnant.

http://surrealu.blogspot.com claytonian

I won’t let Americans off the hook, but I’m not interested in deflecting aspersions on them in this article.
Tell me Lei, do you think Japanese kids don’t have premarital sex or get pregnant?

Erika

At least birth control is encouraged and there are no dumbass religious organizations trying to ban abortion and sexual health.

http://dd one

I have to stop you there. You hear all the stories of suburban kids in the US that have everything a kid could want and their parents shower them with cash to keep them quiet. This is true in upper middle class suburbs witch makes up about 17% of the total population. Toss in the 10% of the rich and you have a whopping 27%(estimate) of the households in the USA that spoil their kids totally rotten.
What about the rest of us? Those of us who ate nothing but boxed pasta and beef soup made from bones that the local butcher gave away. Those of us who could go 3-4 years without eating out, even at fast food joints. Those of us who felt the need to work hard in school to get out of the shitty life we were born into. Those of us who had to sell drugs at 14 to help mom pay the bills. The people in trailer parks. The people who can’t afford the drugs they need to stay alive. The people who stand outside 7-11 and beg for change. The people who make minimum wage doing shitty hard work. The 45% of americans who make less than $27,000 a year. What about us?

Yes there are poor people here in japan. B U T the homeless rate is extremely low compared to the US. For the most part food is cheaper (except fruit). Clothing is cheaper. Lunch out is about half the money than it is in the US. Most kids here seem to have a DS, a Wii or both. Most families send their kids to juku, swimming lessons and eikaiwa classes. The families here are better at saving and have the extra income to do so. In the US almost no one saves because they don’t have the extra cash and also most likely owe 2 – 10 thousand on their credit cards.

The kids here are far worse behaved than americans. You will almost never hear a five year old kid throwing a shit fit on a train of in a store, the other people will say “shut your fucking kid up”. You will NEVER see a 28 year old person living home while mom and dad feed and clothe them. “japanese don’t spoil their kids”……. BULLSHIT they spoil them until they are 30.

21 Snow Whites Can’t Be Wrong

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