Charisma Men?
If you’ve lived in Japan, chances are you’ve heard of the charisma man stereotype of foreign males, which gets its name from the popular comic strip of the same name. The first comic in the Charisma Man anthology
Do such characters exist? It would be hard to deny that there are some foreign men in Japan who put almost all their effort into sleeping with as many women as possible, and in some cases such men are probably wouldn’t be able to pull the “player” lifestyle back in their native country. There is also a certain “charisma” of sorts that foreigners gain in Japan, perhaps from sticking out as different/exotic, or perhaps from the existence of a small minority of Japanese people who very actively seek foreign friends and want to learn a foreign language. People find the comic strip amusing because it satirizes (in an exaggerated fashion) the experience of some foreigners in Japan.
A few days ago, Shari, an American woman who lives in Japan and blogs about her So-Called Japanese Life, wrote a post bringing up the charisma man comic. She mentioned her experiences with one foreigner she considered a charisma man and posted the following list of traits she has noticed that the charisma men she has met had in common:
- Most of these men came to Japan at a relatively young age and had limited social experience back home. They tend to be here for the vast majority of their young adult socialization and maturation process.
- Most of them met their wives or girlfriends in Japan, not in their home countries. I’ve noticed a serious difference between men who meet Japanese women in their home countries and marry them then come to Japan as compared to men who meet their wives here initially. The former tend to be a lot nicer group of guys.
- All of them (in my experience) are good at speaking Japanese as it is a high priority to become proficient enough to chat up girls, but also they prefer socializing with Japanese people as they can easily impress them simply by being foreign. They also vigorously throw themselves into practicing as it gives them more interaction with women.
- Few of them have ever had a Western girlfriend.
- Most of them have extremely stereotypical and derogatory opinions about Western women. They tend to view them as lazy, pushy, controlling, demanding, and opinionated.
- Most of them have stereotypical and shallow opinions of Japanese women and emphasize the physical assets of Japanese women in opposition to their stereotypical views of the physicality of Western women. That is, they talk about how naturally (and eternally) slim, beautiful, nurturing (as in willing to do all the cooking and cleaning without complaint), and feminine (quiet, demure) Japanese women are whereas Western women are all going to end up fat and ugly.
- Most of them base their relationship from an emotional viewpoint on trivialities such as Japanese pop culture and light social activities like karaoke, pub crawling, travel, and sports. Few of them value deep or meaningful dialog with their significant other as an important part of a relationship.
- Most are very arrogant and have difficulties when their ideas, opinions or knowledge are challenged. Personally, I believe that is because debate where ones assertions are disagreed with is not common in Japan and since most of these men came here at a young age, they have never developed the ability to handle disagreement well, particularly if women have been a large focus in their socialization here.
- Most of them dislike other foreigners and tend to regard most of them with contempt. In some cases, part of this contempt involves constantly measuring other foreigners’ language ability, work type and status and cultural knowledge against theirs and smugly concluding they are better.
Do men that match most of the traits on that list qualify as charisma men? I don’t really much of a connect between the things on that list and the typical womanizing charisma man image. The list itself reads like a collection of negative stereotypical ways that some view foreign men who “go local.”
Claytonian has posted a response to the list on his blog, and I tend to agree with him. Here’s a short excerpt:
But it seems to be that disparity that bugs our foreign sisters so much. All is fair in love and war, unless your ugly, in which case it is cheating. That seems to be at the root of the sentiment. I also hear a lot of “guys come over here and get arrogant.” I can hear the vitriol in women’s words when they say it. I also recently read a woman blogger’s send up of “charisma men,” in which she seemed to think that these guys completely lack in all social graces and dis other foreigners in favor of hanging out with J girls. A type of guy I have yet to encounter here.
I keep hearing about these terribly awkward and rude guys, but I never meet them (it admittedly could be a factor of where I live: inaka). All the guys that I know that are dating J girls seem pretty nice and normal to me. So I am wondering where all the sour grapes come from. I hate to say it, but I think it’s a racist and jealous thing. And that is going to hurt some feelings, but some people really need to take the time and reflect on why they would be bothered by an interracial relationship. I hear words like “yellow fever” and I cringe, because while I think fetishists exist in small numbers in all demographics, I don’t think but a tiny portion of guys target specific races to date, and this term only exists out of hatred.
There are guys that use the J girls’ tendency to jump into relationships to their advantage. But it happens back home too; they’re called players and some are so proficient in America that they tutor other guys for money. So being a sleazy guy has nothing to do with Japan. Sleazy guys may end up here, but I think they are rare enough that the usual anti white/Japanese sentiments are still oddly numerous and shrill . It’s a bias that some girls carry like a chip on their shoulder.
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Interesting read. I happen to have experienced and believe most of the points are true. It really does however depend on the individual as far as this whole stereotyping of american males in Japan goes. I share many of these qualities, however I must point out that my views of western women are usually spot on since evrn though another may call them “stereotyping,” they are MY VIEWS. So that part is wrong. Everyone has their own opinion, and in my opinion western women are generally turning fat and stupid, but I don’t share the same view of Japanese women.
I have met some very educated and interesting women since I lived there and instead of feeling like I should be overwhelming them with my charisma and somehow they should bow to me and do as I say, I would rather they were equal to me, just like any female I want to have anything to do with. How boring would a person be if they didn’t act like a human being. I have been told many Japanese women feel like the Japanese male dominates the family relationship, but I think it should be 50/50. You are supposed to be friends and partners, not “married.” And yep, that’s just my opinion!
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Whatever, the heck with all this garbage – it takes two to tango – the dicker and the dickee – women of all races and all countries like bad boy player douchebags – they want to be lied to and they want to be abused, otherwise these guys would get no play. If being a player charisma man didn’t WORK, no one would DO IT.
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Good luck to the charisma men, I say! What are they supposed to do- stay at home and be single/miserable?
The female Western friends I have that are open to dating Japanese guys don’t tend to harbour such resentments towards Western guys who date Japanese girls.
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My personal opinion is that part of what she says is very true. I’ve had experience with guys that said that if they can’t date in their own country then they go to Asia to brag and getting layed (sorry guys, but there are really those among you that go to asian countries to brag around with stuff they might not have and think of asian women as “easy girls”. Somehow tho, the girls really run to them, might be because of the white skin color or just because they really believe he’s a VIP or rich person). Of course there are only a few guys that are totally different from the guys that I described.
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I don’t know what to make of this issue. On the one hand, I sort of identify with the “charisma man” because I found it damn near impossible to talk to women in the US but it was much easier to do it here in Japan. However, I did manage to have relationships (ok, a relationship) in the US, so it wasn’t like my first girlfriend was a Japanese woman. But it does so happen that I married my Japanese girlfriend because, in part, I was sure that I’d never meet another person as sweet and understanding as she is.
I’ve never met anyone as openly shallow as the character the lady blogger described, but I’ve met my share of shady guys who date as many Japanese women as possible. I don’t think they’d be much different if they were in America; they might simply have a lower success rate.
I’m sure it can be frustrating for foreign women in Japan because most guys, Japanese or foreign, tend to date the natives. But what’s stopping foreign women from going after guys? I believe the “charisma man” is an incredibly rare exception among foreign men in Japan. I’d wager most are like me: when I first got here I was hoping to meet a woman, not just a Japanese woman. I did my best to meet both.
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you’re a right on, sensitive dude. Generalizations will always abound, i think both the initial lady and the replying fellow made some valid points. A little vitriol and exaggeration are necessary to get the topic warmed up.
In China, it’s hard not to cringe at the white players who pick up chinese girls, but over in Shanghai most of these guys are suave, good looking cats. They were probably players back in Italy, France, Australia, the States, etc. But in japan, i dunno.
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So…white girls in Japan don’t like that guys who couldn’t compete with the douches in America for girls come to Japan where they can be douches and get the girls they couldn’t at home?
Why don’t they ante up and date some Japanese dudes? What…do they want to date a “geek”? I don’t get chicks sometimes.
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Hahahaha!!!
There are some foreign men here in Japan that actually can’t get dates with J-girls, either! This whole Charisma Man thing is just soooo funny!
By the way, I’m actually happy for guys that can’t find a girlfriend back home and get a nice Japanese girl, here… everyone deserves happiness…
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I don’t get them MOST times!
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I think that in this case, there is both truth and exageration of a problem that does exist. I went to Japan twice as an exchange student in High School and spent my last year of high school near Kyoto in Shiga prefecture. I had a couple of fellow exchange students at my school. All of them were pretty normal, except for 1 person boy, a high school senior, who seemed to take every chance he could get to attract girls and manipulate them. His charade got figured out and he got himself into a lot of trouble which he deserved. He held a very condecending view of girls in Japan which was shown through his behavior towards them, which treated them as sex objects to be conquered. It was pretty disgusting to be with such a person.
I would agree with the previous poster on that I think there are many men who, like me, would not mind having a girl friend, but at the same time, have strict views on what they are looking for in a girl. I have always beleived that handsome is as handsome does, so I have always looked for the personality and the intelligence of whoever I am speaking for, be it a girl, or anyone else I am with.
There are guys who do come to Asia for easy girls, which as an exchange student, I can attest to there being if one is so twisted and insensitive as that one exchange student did. But I cannot buy that the majority of guys here are like that. This one person was the only foreign male from the west I have met who had such views and ideas held towards Japanese women.
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The incredibly heavy irony is that the critique of these guys, their relationships and viewpoints as “stereotypical,” “derogatory,” “shallow” and “based on trivialities” is, in and of itself, is quite a biased, stereotypical and shallow evaluation.
Look, nobody… NOBODY… really knows what goes on between two people in their relationship, the depth of their feelings, how they connect to one another, or how they really feel towards one another. [Often, not even the people in the relationship, but I digress.]
Dismissing these relationships and these people as nothing more than superficial fetishism – done in the comments over in the linked article – or feeling the need to denigrate them, is just goofiness. And smacks of a smallness of character.
Stereotypes are ridiculous, whether they be “demure Japanese geisha,” “back home loser” or “man hating feminazi.”
Worry about your own relationships, and leave everybody else to do the same.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly
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I think there are two issues here. First is the tendency of men to brag – our outright lie. With the reputation (reputation, I stress) of Japanese girls being weak-kneed at the sight of a white man, it’s easier to spin bull about how many you have had. So when some guy who could barely get his mother to give him the time of day back home comes to Japan and starts talking about how often he’s getting it, the default position should be that he’s lying out his arse, either (or both) to take advantage of the reputation of this place, or to ensure that he doesn’t seem like an even greater loser (“what, you couldn’t even get laid in JAPAN??!!”).
Second, the defining part of the CM is not that he goes for Asian girls only (that’s an Asiaphilic: http://www.modelminority.com has a wonderfully ugly piece of nonsense about how Asiaphilia is just white men being colonial) [the demeaning view of white women is related to this of course] or that they came here early (relatively) and matured here, but the arrogance. CM must brag about how cool he is, must act as if he’s the West’s gift to Japanese womenhood. If you do that, you’re a tosser anyway, and you’re a tosser wherever you do it – the only difference is that it’s not your home country you do it in. It’s not merely finding love in Japan when you couldn’t find it back home. And the tendency to think all white men with a Japanese (or Asian) girl are either Asiaphilics who go gaga for long black hair or almond eyes or are losers who couldn’t get a “real” women if they paid, is at best narrow, at worst offensive.
I’ve actually just been reading today a number of sites that discuss Asiaphilia and they have pissed me off a fair bit in their assumption that any white man with an Asian girl is barely better than a pedophile (yes, they used that comparison). So if I stay in Japan, I’m a “Charisma Man” who couldn’t get a “real” woman back home and fled to where they have loose morals, if I return to my country with my wife then I’m an “Asiaphilic” who isn’t interested in her for her own sake but as some exotic child-like doll. Can’t win.
BTW, I am often arrogant when my knowledge is challenged, but that’s just because I’m usually right….
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Oh, you charisma men and your arrogance!
I agree in sense that White Guys are very welcomed by Japanese woman who tends to prefer them more than Asian’s man, and i also had seen the “real life” Charisma Man around my living environment, sometimes they also act very irritatingly around girls.
But still i don’t think all the Whites is as bad as what the girl have blogged, Yes, there’s still people who act like the Charisma Man, but not all of them, which is why you can’t really judge that they all behave like that, not all of them are geek as it was exaggerated in the Comic.
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She forgot two items on her list of Charisma Man traits:
- Most Charisma Men drink water.
- Most Charisma Men don’t drink water.
I think that sums it right about up.
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Hey, enough with the stereotypes!
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lolwut?
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Her (Shari’s) post was primarily based on a single example; the same guy she encountered twice in her 17+ years experience in Japan. She then brushes the rest of her experience off as “when I run across one of these guys”. That’s hardly the sort of definitive, empirical evidence I would use to support the serious claims she makes in her bulleted “traits”.
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Just because she uses a single example to illustrate what she’s saying doesn’t mean she’s basing her entire impression of these kinds of douche bags off only one guy. On the contrary, she indicated experiences with several boys like this. Would you rather she get repetitive and make a detailed list of boys working in japan she knew like this?
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Quite the contrary – I’d like her to stop categorizing foreigners in Japan, as if there is some quantifiable way of measuring the intentions of individuals based on our own biased presumptions of them as human beings.
Again, she chalks the bulk of her experience up to, “when I run across one of these guys,” which implies she’s never attempted to get to know them, and is, fundamentally, judging a book by its cover.
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I think that both bloggers missed the mark a little bit. What comes to mind when I read the comic is the thing that I see virtually every day that I step out of my house in Western Tokyo– nerdy, often rail-thin, very badly-dressed foreign guys with an over-makeupped japanese woman hanging off of their every word. My girl friends and I have discussed it several times over the years, how these really unappealing, socially-uneducated boys (and the first poster did hit the mark there) suddenly find themselves the target of those gaijin-seeking women in Roppongi who will bite at any non-japanese/non-asian that looks their way. And then the language barriers make for a great relationship.
My friend works with someone like that– he met his wife in Japan and they have two children. But he can’t speak japanese, and his wife can’t speak english. The kids also can’t speak english. So he spends most of his time at work in order to avoid a completely frustrating home life. He would probably be a perfect example.
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“But he can’t speak japanese, and his wife can’t speak english.”
That’s nuts. I’m actually amazed they’re still together.
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That’s not a marriage, it’s an economical agreement.
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I think that both bloggers have a point. Whilst there ARE a lot of men who go about using Japanese girls simply because they can, and because of the stereotype placed on them through the media (I found a comment on a Japan related forum once that said “I can’t wait to have a J-girlfriend because they are all so easy and open minded in bed”. The following comments backed this guy’s view in a kind of “phroah! I heard all Japanese girls love anal and are up for threesomes!”)
At the same time, there are lots of lovely gaijin men here. Men who are dating a J-girl because they like her a cool. Men who want to date Japanese women exclusively, I have a problem with, unless they have good reasons.
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Is it really bad to be geek ?
I was geek in France and I had gf there, i am still geek in japan and my gf is a geek !
I think geek should only date with geek people
PS Even if I am geek i do not like at all anime
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I think geek guys are cute
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A few other points I wanted to bring up,
Why is it that, as a white male, having a taste in white women is “a preference” (brunette versus blonde, blue eyes versus brown, tall versus short, etc), but a preference in Asian women is “a fetish”? Why is this even an issue? Everyone has ideals.
And is the issue really about the “charisma man” coming off as arrogant in their knowledge, or is the issue stemming from a subconscious feeling of inadequacy from the onlooker?
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“Why is this even an issue?”
Because we can drag RACE into the mixture, and immediately give it all sorts of political and historical baggage that it doesn’t deserve.
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Appearance = preference
Fetish = objectification
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But my question here isn’t asking about the distinction between the labels, but why the latter is automatically assumed in an international relationship.
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I hate to say it, but I think it’s a racist and jealous thing.
Exactly! As we hear so often, Japan is obviously a racist country. What most poeple who says this don’t realize is that most of that racism is being spouted by our fellow gaijin at each other and the Japanese.
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Meh, it’s not just Japan. I know American guys who pick up a lot more women in any foreign country than they do at home. And I know European guys come to NYC and sweep up all the American girls with their sexy accents.
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http://www.keepingpaceinjapan.com/2008/02/concerning-charisma-men.html
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Interesting. Especially this comment:
“Furthermore, how can you form a serious relationship with someone like that, if you know they’re just targeting foreigners, without consideration to anything else?”
Nope, my (Japanese) wife wasn’t like that when I met her. Being foreign or even white wasn’t enough. You also had to be tall, handsome, and intelligent – at least compared to the men she knew, so I was lucky….
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There are a lot of this kind of losers in Korea too. Especially if you go to this blog you’ll notice or there were, it’s been a long time I don’t visit the stinky blog.
http://www.rjkoehler.com
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My brother’s been living in Japan for years now. I wouldn’t call him a Charisma Man since I’ve never had the impression that he’s ever had problems getting girls. He’s just naturally charismatic, and ended up in Japan.
In any case, he always told me to come over to Japan to meet girls, since like the comic, I had problems with getting a girlfriend. His whole take on it was that, just by doing all the ’simple’ things that are par for the course in America, would seem to wow the Japanese girls. Stuff like holding the door, and just other small gestures. Seems like that kind of thing was not done by the Japanese guys, so it made you stand out.
As a side-note we’re 4th generation Japanese-Canadian, but we grew up reading manga, and we would sit in front of the TV and watch Dragonball, Downtown, Dorifu, etc for hours every single day. The ironic thing there, was that I ended up having to spend so much time explaining why my Japanese was so good to people. Not as extreme as that Joe is Japanese video, but it did get near there sometimes
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Shari stated: “Most of them have extremely stereotypical and derogatory opinions about Western women. They tend to view them as lazy, pushy, controlling, demanding, and opinionated.”
Isn’t Shari herself being extremely stereotypical and pushy with her derogatory opinions? Oh, the irony!
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I’m pointing this out as a stereotypical, pushy American woman, and I’m sure you’ll write off my opinion immediately as just that. But I’d just like to point out the contrast:
So many of the commenters here are defending the right of the “charisma man” (and any who might be stereotyped as such) to aggressively assert his opinion. However, in the case of the woman who happens to assert her opinion, her comments are immediately labeled as derogatory, and she is written off as narrow-minded. Oh, the irony!
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Word.
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Word x2
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K: “…her comments are immediately labeled as derogatory, and she is written off as narrow-minded.”
She makes the same critical assumptions that she argues against without justifiable evidence. She compared common traits with uncommon ones and mashed them together, claiming it was the norm. I don’t think anyone here is particularly offended by her baseless stereotypes, but most commenters here are trying to point out where she went wrong in presenting her very narrow opinion of her fellow foreigners of the opposite sex.
“Oh, the irony!”
That’s what we’ve been saying all along! See, we are on the same page.
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First up, if two people are happy together, then why is it anyone’s business but theirs? Some geek guy from the states finds a cute chick in Tokyo, BFD…
But, hey, lets just tack a name on it, attach a little stigma, so everyone has something to be angry about.
God, get over yourselves.
If a Western woman wants a Japanese man, I say “More power to ya!”…and you can change the nationalities or ethnic designations to any version you choose, but personally, I could care less.
If your life is so empty that you have to analyze WHY you feel resentful that geek boy and his Asian GF are happy, then YOU need some special help yourself.
There are assholes everywhere, and yep, they suck. Male and female, Western or Eastern, they all suck. But when you begin to make it an issue about race and obsession, using ONE example (and possibly a few anecdotes) to make a little bullet-point list about everything that is wrong…well, gotta say, you obviously have WAAAAY too much free time. Either that, or you have some serious issues with your own insecurities.
Ah, hell with it, I’m gonna run down to the Ramen shop and grab some tomago ramen and a beer. Maybe I’ll pay for it with my “Charisma”. Or maybe I’ll take the option to live in reality and not in Shari’s little psychotherapy experiment, and I will pay for it and chat for a bit with the lady behind the counter. Who, even though she’s in her 70’s, is a cool lady and fairly good with basic English. She always manages to get a free lesson out of me whenever I go in…does that make her a “Charisma Grandma”, I wonder?
Later guys
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Because of my schedule, I was heading to my office’s bounenkai late and had trouble finding the restaurant. An older, male, Japanese co-worker came to show me the way. While walking he says to me, “I just came to get you because I wanted to have a cig, I don’t really care about you”. Fair enough, I thought, being a fellow smoker. Next, he said, “You know when we get to the party everyone is going to say ‘DA-NI-ERU! Are you OK? Did you get lost?’, fawning over you. But me, I’m not like that. I just wanted to smoke.”
What he said, struck a chord. I knew exactly what he meant and I didnt think he was trying to be rude whatsoever, however, I had no reply. I was thinking about my position. My female co-workers show concern, I 1) wave them off and look like a prick or 2) welcome it and look like Charisma Man. What would you do? or think??
I’d like to add to the great ideas in this forum one more nugget: Charisma Man wouldn’t exist without the fawning, overzealous fan club boosting him up. There is no escape.
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1) wave them off and look like a prick
You’ll look even more studly, in fact. Drive ‘em wild by pretending you don’t care….
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haha I wish more Japanese people were like that. I can’t stand gaijin-mania.
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Whoops, would like to add one last thing: Just took a look at Shari’s blogpost and the comments…wow.
“Why don’t those damned nerds stay at the bottom of the social order the way they do back home! Yep, that nerd had the audacity to show some confidence in himself so now we’ll call him arrogant and stigmatize him as a Charisma Man! Oh, and if at all possible, lets stomp on him, destroy his confidence, and reduce him to his former at-home position!”
The one poster who said that he/she sits around with his/her coworkers, classifying the men working there as Charisma Men or Nice Guys But Potential Charisma Men (or some such BS) is especially sad.
Resentful that others are enjoying their lives? Jesus, the people who write that crap are some bitter little campers, I think. Didn’t they watch “Revenge of the Nerds”? Lambda Lambda Lambda, all the way!!
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We got bush!
(At least until next Jan…)
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No one’s really gonna to be free until nerd persecution ends. – Gilbert
Okay, that’s it, I’m going to bed now…*l*
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it’s called sarcasm. please look it up on wikipedia or something– it will serve you well in your internet exploits.
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There is sometimes kind of myth or misunderstanding to each other between Western man and Japanese girl. (As a Japanese man), I was sometimes surprised at that some Westerners would like to date with J-girls who were not so attractive for us(Japanese men). Therefore it’s the same story vice versa.
But probably we shouldn’t generalize that, as there are many nice cases.
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I’ve heard this from a lot of Japanese guys.
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Haha there are lots of guys like that. Although in my experience they often don’t speak Japanese that well – most gaijin obsessed Japanese girls want to “speak” English anyway.
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The whole description she gives sounds horribly generalized, and I have to agree with Claytonian, it sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder. I think she tries to paint some picture of “home country” relationships like they’re so rosy and wonderful under any circumstance. Like if you found a woman to romance in your own country that you must be Don Juan and couldn’t possibly be a prick. Also, insofar as “surface relationships” are concerned, how many people here (I’m using the US as an example since she’s obviously referring to it more than anywhere else) date and do “surface” things and don’t have a deeper meaning, and don’t care to have a deeper meaning? Simply by typifying males that emigrate, she’s already lost her argument in my mind. She needs to get over herself, if you’re concerning yourself that much with people you can’t stand, then you must have sort of socio-psycho disorder, imo. I think the irony would be lost on her, but her pointing out the fact that these guys like to put other people down and that’s why they like “easily-subverted” Japanese women, and her listing the faults and typifying of what she considers to be Charisma Men — pretty much the same thing to me. Yeah, she’s right, I mean c’mon, what business do these guys have being social and dating an attractive or personable woman? They should be dating morlocks in the sewers and keeping to themselves! I’m sure there are a great many guys that have happy relationships with Jgirls and weren’t “prized for breeding” at home, like a previous poster said, everyone deserves happiness, so get off it already.
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What is telling is her statement that she would “never” date a Japanese man. She lists the reasons why, but instead of saying “I would never marry a man who was XXXX” she just says “I would never marry a Japanese,” leaving out the fact that there are a ton of Japanese men who aren’t like that, and a ton of (American) men who are.
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Sounds like someone got dumped for a Japanese girl.
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It does, dosn’t it.
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I am a foreign white male who lived in Japan for over two years, and I had my share of Japanese partners, two of them serious enough that I considered them monogamous partners (one for about 6 months and the second for about a year). Now, I have also had success back home–girlfriends, multiple partners, etc.–BUT, I admit I was WAY more “successful” in Japan.
People back home always asked me if it was easier there, and I had a few responses that were not just “yes.”
1. There are way more (like, by millions and millions) Japanese women in Japan than foreign women. Moreover, most of the foreign women in Japan (that I met) came over in committed relationships. The others…? Well, anyway, the odds are against them.
2. Having a Japanese girlfriend is beneficial for a non-sexual reason: Japanese language acquisition instantly accelerates. Some foreigners do want to learn Japanese, and, honestly, dating a Japanese girl who is not fluent in English is a GREAT way to get better at Japanese. I’m not saying that makes any Japanese person an acceptable partner, but it’s an extra weight in favor of dating locals.
3. The system of going out at night is conducive to finding a mate. Think about it: sharing tables with strangers at izakaya, privacy in karaoke rooms, availability of love hotels.
4. Finally, of course, the exotic flair that us foreigners have in Japan does perhaps generate some initial interest. I argue, however, that that initial interest is not enough, alone, to “seal the deal.” In other words, I always had to make an effort, and I found that there were far fewer one night stands in Japan than in my country. However, I found Japan to be a likely place for a two-night stand: if a second date went well, the barriers might drop.
The bottom line is to turn the question around to the foreign women: why do you stick with foreign men? I don’t think this heart-to-heart conversation explanation holds much water. I think you only get hit on by foreign men. I think this label of “Charisma Man,” while surely accurate for certain individuals, is far less pervasive than your perhaps jealous minds think.
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My first gf was Japanese and i am a latino guy, and when i was with her, some people asked me questions like are you with her because asian girls are very obedient,they arent that aggressive etc etc. Well my response was not really i liked her because i felt happy being with her, not because of stereotypes that people have of asian girls, also i dont know why, but i have tried to establish a conversation with girls of my own race or other western girls, and i feel they give me the cold shoulder, unlike girls of east asian origin, is totally the opposite,and i dont feel like i am an outsider to them, and they are much more friendly. So if some people dont accept, then ill look for people that will. Everyone has the right to find happiness in their lives.
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I think it’s a shame that there seems to be this stereotype that all foreign guys are charisma men and all foreign women are frustrated and jealous because they can’t get any in Japan. Where are these women? I’ve been in Japan for quite a few years and all my female friends are in relationships with Japanese guys – I myself have had relationships with both foreign and Japanese guys here. None of my mates are pringle munching feminazis, and I don’t recognize the charisma man stereotype among any of my male friends.
Why do people worry so much about how others are living their lives anyway? If you’re enjoying your life in Japan, then you probably won’t be looking to pick faults with others’ lifestyles. And if you’re not enjoying your life, focus your energies on improving it!
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Thing is….this little comic thing was totally dumb. I am a African-American who has been and lived in Tokyo. J-men usually find American women who aren’t so cute such as your “emo,goth, or just down right normal typical ugly gets-along with everyone girl” cute. As visa-versa J-girls find American boys who aren’t so cute in American cute in japan.
(Trust me I’ve had many J-girl friends and j-boy friends. Anyways this comic was a waste of time. It’s just proving to the world that people are stereotypical. So, why don’t we all mind our own business and get on with life. Big WHOOP A J-GIRL LIKES A THE AMERICAN BOY. Honestly, idk why i even read this. =]
Sayounara
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I have been in Japan for over a decade now, married (happily) to a native Japanese, and I am on the fence with the whole Charisma man image.
Due to a hectic school/work schedule, I never had too much time to get into the North American dating scene (an internship in another city would end one relationship, moving apartments would end another, etc.) The relationships that did tend to stick were the ones I had with Korean and Japanese women.
I am probably going to rub some people the wrong way with this, and this is limited to my scope of experience, so apologies in advance, but I found dating Western women to be such a chore. It always seemed like an overcomplex mind-game of whom loves whom more at some given time and that you have to tinker with your relationship and keep things just perfect or the whole things is over.
I never had that issue with the women in the east, where relationships felt more “natural” (for lack of a better word). We could just get along and enjoy each other for who we are, rather than a complex game of cat and mouse over whom can do what for whom and just how much does one love another.
One thing I will mention that skews my perspective a bit is the fact I lost over 75lbs since coming to Japan, most in my first year and a half. The improvement in self-image may have also directly or indirectly been affecting my relationships.
That’s about it, sorry for the somewhat long-winded rant
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…At least you’re not saying that Asian women are sooooo much better because they’re subservient and nice and don’t require much “tending to”.
But still, you shouldn’t generalize like that, dude.
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Any Americans spent much time in Meditarranean Europe? The situation is just the reverse. Guys are too timid and unswarthy to get laid, and girls are never alone for more than 2 seconds at a bar. Interestingly, Japanese girls don’t attract much attention. Something sucks everywhere, take your pick, but have some perspective.
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By reiterating the stereotype of ‘Charisma Man’ in that way, she’s just reinforcing the stereotype of the bitter, bitchy ‘Western Woman in Japan’. Not a Good Thing.
I notice that her blog seems to have stopped accepting comments…
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I think it’s pretty shitty when guys stereotype Asian women and fetishize them, but it’s unfortunate when ALL non-Asian guys are labeled as such just because they’re dating an Asian woman.
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Yeah…The “most of them” formula follow n by a negative argument does sound self supporting…..but to the survey s question “are ALL those man dating asian woman UNFAIRLY labbeled as charisma men” I say of course not! Ok I never dated an asian women (but I admit having preferences toward women of other cultures)But I met asian obsessed geek and I think most of the characteristic she describe fit to the classical American emo anime fan…and here yes, we are in a sea of stereotypes….I think we should just bow to the randomness of love.. and lets had this: Travelling people, man or women, have more sex appeal! And I would say it work the opposite way that you re not attracted by your sister! The distance of lineage make it safer for your progeny ! (no offence on that one)
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There is some truth (in some cases) in what Shari says.
But on the other hand she also says that she has “lived in Japan for about 17 years and spent most of that time working for a correspondence school writing textbooks and teaching and as an English conversation teacher”.
Now 17 years is a long time. But “working for a correspondence school writing textbooks and teaching and as an English conversation teacher” would I think give a narrow and perhaps distorted view of Japan.
Also in fairness what she says about Charisma Men applies also to Charisma Women.
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I don’t think half the people here are even reading her post. She’s not saying anything about all foreign men or even most, nor is she making generalizations. She’s saying there there are jerks who are foreign and male and seem to exhibit other characteristics in common, which isn’t the same as saying all foreign males are jerks. Everyone is making much ado about nothing.
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It was the way she went about presenting her bulleted traits that has everyone up in a roar. She listed some pretty common characteristics right off the bat, so even with her disclaimer it felt like an attack. It would be like writing,
This is how you can identify a Nazi:
* Most of these men are tall.
* Most of them have blue eyes. I’ve noticed a serious difference between the ones with brown eyes and the ones with blue eyes.
* All of them (in my experience) like sports.
* Few of them have ever had a Jewish friend.
* Most of them have extremely stereotypical and derogatory opinions about people who are not white.
If you’re a tall, blue-eyed sports-enthusiast, you’re feeling pretty agitated after reading the first three bullets.
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Bobby Valentine is a Charisma Man! watch out ladies of Japan and the greater Chiba area!
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Hmmm…well, if you read her entire blog post she makes it pretty clear that not every bullet point spells creep:
“I am not asserting that all men who pursue relationships with Japanese women fit this category…even if you fit every item on this list, I’m not saying you’re one of these losers.”
and also that finding happiness is good:
“there’s nothing wrong with these guys as they are succeeding in a manner which harms no one and often makes the Japanese women they couple with (seemingly) happy enough.”
Her issue seems to be more that dealing their contempt is a pain.
That point at least, I find very easy to agree with. There’s very little that’s charismatic about being a little snot.
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Could this woman be more sexist? What is more disguisting about a man going to japan to try and find love and/or sex than a man that does it in America or where ever he’s from? Please do count the ammount of men AND WOMEN in america that go out purely to have sex with other people on a weekly basis. Compare that to all the white guys doing it in Japan. Why the hell is this a problem? If we can accept this happening in America then why can’t we accept it happening in Japan?
No, I agree with Claytonian in that she is definately having issues with the fact that guys that she doesn’t find attractive (or the general public does) can get girls from another country. She’s probably angry at the fact the guys that do this (the perfect matches for the charisma man theory) probably doesn’t like the stereotypical western girl and her way to behave / live her life and she probably wants to tell them that every western girl is not like that.
But seriously, when does it become ok for a person to tell another what he or she should do with their life? As long as it’s not harmful to other people or breaking laws of the nation we are living in, we are allowed to do what the heck we want in this world (or atleast the ones of us that are lucky enough to live in democratic countries).
I do not like the personalities of men that fits into this description personally but I fully accept their way of life and have no intention of telling them to stop. Nor do I feel the urge to stop American women from being romantically involved or just purely sexually invloved with foreign men. To want to stop people engaging in such activities would just be racist and sexist.
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If I tell my g/f (a Japanese passport holder) that she’s supposed to be subservient and nice and never give any bad mouth to anyone she has a laugh, then I have a laugh, and then we get on with out lives. Seriously, this blog post is a pile of crap stereotypes about both foreign men and Japanese women. I wonder if in those 17 years her Japanese ever got good enough to have a serious conversation with a Japanese woman. (And yes, I know a bunch of gaijin, especially English teachers, who never got that far, and these are of course the most frustrated ones).
If she would ever have a serious talk with a Japanese woman she’d notice that Japanese women are everything but stupid and subservient and passive. They’re just good at creating that image.
We’re talking about normal, every day women here, not sluts you pick up in a bar. There’s sluts in any country.
It’s really to bad for the original blog poster to spend half her life in a foreign country and never get the slightest clue.
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It’s just biology. It happens in nature too. The unsuccessful males leave the pack and are naturally more attractive to females from other areas.
The females see a certain allure in males from other areas, and the men don’t have the same level of competition.
Sure, there’s a whole other load of factors thrown in there, such as Japan’s unique viewpoint towards the west, the desire to learn English, and stereotypes about western men, and the typical Japanese man.
I’m in the UK, and I remember when I was young that it used to bother me that girls would seem to swoon over a man for no other reason than he was Italian or French.
But the same goes for a lot of countries except where the men come from poorer countries. Then those men get the opposite effect of Charisma man.
I’ve known attractive Eastern European blokes who have no trouble with ladies back home, but have been in the UK for 5 years and never gone out with an English girl.
A foreign accent is a turn on as long as it’s not a poor sounding one.
And it’s all down to males and females trying to better the success of their children. In the case of females: either through reducing chance of genetic mutation by choosing a male who they share less genes with (i.e. foreign), or increasing their chances by choosing a nice guy who will stick around, or by choosing someone with plenty of money who can afford to support children.
Whereas men go wherever they can to increase their chances of their children’s survival, some choose to be the marrying type and look after a family, some choose to hedge their bets and increase the number of children and families that they create (the players). And some go further afield where they have a higher success rate with females, and these males may be the players or the nice guys or any combination of the myriad different kinds of people they can turn out to be based on their actions, feelings and intentions.
For the record, I’m married to a Japanese girl who I met in the UK (so that must make me one of the first stereotypes). Anyway, I’ve no problem with the so called ‘players’ either here, in the US or in Japan. They’re just doing their thing, and women throughout the world have to deal with what happens when you go for the more charismatic, often more attractive, but ultimately self-serving men.
And if you can go from being a geek to being a player by travelling to Japan, and that’s your method of being successful and feeling good about yourself, then fair play to you. I’d put those men in the same category as the women who choose to marry for money, or have one man (unwittingly) bring up another man’s child. You’re all just playing the game and doing it for your own needs.
We all just choose different paths to success. I just like the idea of choosing the less self centred route. But who knows maybe if I’d have been a lot more attractive, richer, and more successful I’d have found the easiest route was to be a player.
Maybe I wouldn’t have needed to attempt to develop empathy, intelligence, or understanding of others.
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I am in the US Navy. I was stationed out of Yokosuka and Yokohama, Japan for approx 7 yrs.
I can see both points. However, from my point of view it goes like this:
I can attest and inform that it is not only Japan and/or Asia since I have been to over 20 some different countries. Women flock to us in Australia, Russia, Germany, etc.
The women onboard the ship I was stationed on used to get after me. They questioned why I would only date locals and no one from the ship.
They, the women on the ship, were the minority in Japan. They wanted to have boyfriends, etc. Yet many of us, including myself, would only date the local girls.
Part of this is due to ships policy. Another reason is due to the fact that if it goes awry you could potentially be stuck for months on end in the middle of the ocean staring at each other and hating each other. Not a very conducive working environment.
The US military has a large presence in Japan. There are thousands upon thousands of us stationed overseas in Japan. The ratio of our men to women is horrible. Why try to date an American woman while you are stationed over there if 20 other guys are fighting for the same woman? When you can go off base and get yourself a girlfriend.
Then you have to take into account that the average age of a soldier, airman, marine, and sailor is 19. I was 19 yrs old when I was sent overseas to be stationed in Japan; left when I was 26.
I know that I had no plans on getting married before my mid twenties. So why would I date only one person? I had always dated multiple people; even before I was stationed out of Japan. I was young and having fun.
I don’t think that I was a rarity over there. I don’t think that the majority of foreigners in Japan can only date in Japan. I know this because there were several guys who had girlfriends back home in the states while they were stationed overseas. I also know that many of them also dated Japanese women even though they had girlfriends in the states.
Sure, there might be a couple of guys here and there who “are perceived” as incapable of dating in their home country and date in Japan.
I have known a few guys who thought that way. They had never really had a girlfriend prior to going to Japan. Now they are out of the military, back in the states, married with children to American women.
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We don’t like gaijin. Don’t go to Japan !
to the US military : don’t stress and don’t forget the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Nuclear Bombing
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日本人のふりをするにはwe を使うのが定番になったのかな？
やしきってなに？
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「やしき」とは、大型な住宅でしょう。「屋敷」です。取りあえず、そういう意味しかないでしょう。
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しかし、ハンドルに使いますかね？
名前とすれば、よしき、でしょう。
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因みに、この方のように この文脈で we を主語に使う程度の日本人英語学習者なら、「日本にくるな」という日本語の文章が頭にあって、それを英訳する、つまり、Don’t come to Japan にするのではないか、そして、Don’t stressって用法はなかなか日本人英語学習者が使えない用法ではないのではないか、と思います。そこらへん怪しいと感じたところです。
”やしき”くん、どうして、ウイ が外人は嫌いだ、と思っているの？
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「日本人である」と、いっさい発言していません。仰る通り、日本人ではない可能性も高いです。ただ、「やしき」はちゃんとした日本語であることを述べたかっただけです。特に深い意味はありません（日本人なら「屋敷」のことはしているはずですが）。つまり、人名ではないから「日本人ではない」と言い切れないためです。私の方も、本名ではないことは当然ですが、人名でも何でものありません。
因みに、「ポンタ」はどういう意味でしょうか。「ポンテ」（ponte)なら、イタリア語で「橋」、「橋梁」のいみですが、「ポンタ」は分かりません。
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タレントの「やしき たかじん」の場合は、家鋪と書いてやしきと読むのが本名のようです。でも、”don’t go to Japan”は、ポンタさんが言うように怪しさ全開ですね。もしも上のやしきさんが日本人で、「うぃー」と書くような人なら、”don’t come to Japan”と書かないとおかしいですね。stressに関しても、ポンタさんに同感です。
> The Overthinkerさん
「ポンタ」は、日本人の子供の間では、わりとよくあるニックネームだと思います。私の小学校の時の同級生にも、同じニックネームの子がいました。体型からの連想で付けられることが多いと思います。ヒントは、「ぽんぽこぽん」の「ぽん」。
（割り込んですみません＞ポンタさん）
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おっしゃるように、たしかに「日本人である」と一切言っていない。が、この文脈では、we=Japanese ⊃ yashiki という含意がある、あるいは、そのような印象を持たせたい、と考えるのが素直でしょう。
また、「屋敷」や「邸宅」といった類のハンドルはみたことがありません。
ポンタはググるとわかりますが、人や動物や漫画のキャラなどに使われる名前です。ログインするとき名前は何でもよかったのですが、そのとき適当に浮かんだ名前をいれて、それをずっと使っています。
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ああ、そういえば、やしきたかじんさん、というタレントさんがいましたね。ただ、たぶん、関東ではかなり、めずらしい・・・というより、指摘されて初めて思いつきました。因みに、体型とは関係・・・・最近あるかな？
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Don’t go to Japan!
“come” ではなくて “go” なんですね。「やしき」については、やしきたかじんの『たかじんのそこまで言って委員会』という、かなり右寄りに感じる大阪ローカル番組（他の地域でも放送されている）があるので、ある意味知られているのかもしれません。
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The Charisma man type isn’t exclusive to white men/asian women. How about a black “Charisma Man”. I’ve seen many black men who are disfunctional with black women but seem irresistably charming to many white women. Watch these black men/white women interact and there are many similarities to the white men/asian women behaviors. Would the creators of “Charisma Man” have the courage to create a black “Charisma Man” character? They would be accused of racism, of course, but then why is it OK to do to white men/asian women? Ignore the double standard, there’s nothing wrong with commenting on something that exists, it deserves mockery just as much as the white men/asian women behavior.
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I probably was somewhat of what she describes, but now around 40 I have two very handsome half Japanese/US sons and think things turned out well. They got the best traits of the wife and I. As a biology major, keep in mind that individuals who travel abroad are generally intelligent or hardy enough to make it there and survive in a foreign culture, so from the J-female prespective they illustrate high survivorship. Also, disparate DNA matches tend to lead to stronger offspring.
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