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Japan May Require Foreign Residents to Know Japanese

Masahiko Komura

Should Japanese language be one of the qualifications for obtaining long-term residence visas in Japan? Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura thinks so:

Komura said the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Justice plan to start discussing the possible requirement. Komura didn’t say when the meeting would take place or provide further details on which residents might be affected.

Japan’s mulling of a language requirement may hint at preparations to accept — rather than reject — more migrants, said Hidenori Sakanaka, director of the Japan Immigration Policy Institute in Tokyo and formerly head of the Justice Ministry’s Tokyo immigration office. Officials realize that Japan’s aging society and pending labor shortage obliges them to boost immigration.

“I think this is a preparation for that,” Sakanaka said. “It’s a global trend to require language ability for immigrants to integrate them into society.”

[...]

Komura said officials may not necessarily deny foreigners long-term residency just because they have no Japanese language ability. Establishing language as one criterion for residency would improve foreigners’ quality of life in Japan and encourage foreign students to learn Japanese abroad, he said.

“There are positive and negative aspects” of a language requirement, Komura said during a press conference in Tokyo today. “Because there may be more positive aspects we’re going to consider it.”

Komura made no mention of what kind of Japanese ability would be expected, or what kind of method the government would use to measure it, and I’ll reserve my judgment on such a system until such details become available. However, it really doesn’t seem like a horrible idea for a country to favor those who can actually speak that country’s language when handing out long-term residency visas.

Using language ability as one criterion for residency:

71 comments - What do you think? Posted by James - January 15, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Categories: Foreigners in Japan Tags: foreigners, gaijin, immigration, japan, japanese, permanent residents, Politics

http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/ James Annan

For PR or citizenship, of course it’s entirely reasonable (and is already required, more or less). But what is a “long term visa”? I didn’t think visas generally lasted more than 3 years, and making any sort of language skill a requirement for that is obviously a complete non-starter.
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The Overthinker

I think there are now 5-year visas in certain categories, but I suspect the idea here is PR. And it certainly is a damn good idea. Learning the language is one of the responsibilities any migrant has to his or her host/chosen country. Those who refuse to learn, and refuse to adapt, but just come to the country and enjoy its money (this applies to any first-world nation) are just leeches.
http://japanqna.wordpress.com/ Marie

This is sort of long overdue… Of course people need to learn the language of the country they choose to live and work in.
D-san

But, Japanese is so difficult!

The Overthinker

No it’s not – not for the level they’ll be looking for. They don’t expect you to defend a doctoral thesis or argue a law case in Japanese. Enough to go shopping will no doubt be more than enough.

Karisu

Japanese is very difficult. Once again, just because you have been able to learn it (apparently) so very easily, does not mean that others have such an easy time with a second language so vastly different from their native one.

I’ve been studying for about a year now (off and on) and I have a decent size vocabulary, but grammar is insanely tough for me. Not everyone has a teacher or native speaker (heck, even non-native) available to help. Purely learning out of a book is not very easy for people who tend to need a teacher to fully wrap their heads around such things.

The Overthinker

Again, I am sure that the level they will be looking for is not that high. It may even depend on the sort of visa. The key seems to be “long-term” visas, which probably doesn’t cover things like one-year teaching visas and other simple ones, but stuff like PR, or say a three-year spouse visa, or similar.

I agree that learning out of a book is not enough. But do you have firm plans to come to Japan to live long-term, and if you did, would you go to a professional school for a short while to get some hard-core learning done? This does not seem like a radical idea to me. Certainly if I were suddenly wanting to live in China for the long-term I would definitely enrol in a class.

_kovert

Well I can’t say that I am in favor of something like this.
In my case I guess it means they would have to kick me out of the country. I might have picked up a few words of Japanese but I doubt I will ever become fluent enough to carry on a conversation.
If we are talking about for citizenship then that seems fine. But then gaining citizenship in Japan is so difficult that it would pretty much require that you be fluent in reading and writing anyway. I just think saying that you have to know the language to live in a place seems a tad extreme.
By the way foreigners living and working in Japan are not all leaches. We pay taxes just like a native Japanese despite not having equal rights.
I know the article says this in preparation for possibly increasing the foreign work force. But to me it just feels somewhat un-welcoming. Sorry but I’m a bit pissed, this guy basically just said he doesn’t want me to live in Japan.
I can only imagine the uproar if my native country tried to do something like this.

The Overthinker

Do *you* want to live in Japan? Only having picked up a few words implies that while your address might be here, you’re just ‘passing through’ and not concerned with fitting in. To really ‘live’ in a place the language is vital.

Unless you’re the world’s worst linguist, I cannot fathom how anyone could want to live in a country and not want to speak the language. Debito has an interesting article on how he got his Japanese citizenship. The language requirement was either minimal or non-existent. I have also heard that the citizenship process, while it requires a great deal of paperwork, is actually less arduous than getting PR. Which would be interesting.

I don’t mean leeches in that way. I am referring to enjoying the wealth and ease of life in the country without making the effort to adapt and assimilate. More a social form of leeching.

_kovert

It was never really my dream to live in Japan. Job opportunities came along and here we are. I could be just as happy living in hundreds of other cities.

The thing is there is very little about my life that requires me to speak Japanese at all. All of my friends speak English. I watch English television and movies I read English books and magazines. Somehow I have managed to get by here for about a year and a half without ever ending up in a situation where not knowing Japanese stopped me from doing anything.
I mean of course I know basics. Like enough to order food or direct a taxi driver. But I can’t carry on a conversation at all.

So unless they are planning to make some changes in Japan. Like say remove English from all the subway signs then I don’t understand the mandate of learn Japanese or get out. The more I think about this the more it bugs me. I mean honestly what is behind this? Is it to try and make life easier for Japanese that might want to talk to us?

Man this has got me all cranky now.

The Overthinker

Without trying to sound patronising, and though that is not my intention I am afraid it will inevitably come off that way, I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on so much. To understand the country and people around you, to feel like you are living ‘in’ a country rather than ‘on’ it, requires the language. You are obviously interested enough in ‘Japan’ to read Japan Probe, so presumably it is more than just the place you hang your hat, so to speak. Is there any reason you have not actively tried to learn the language? I know in my city there are even free language classes, so the opportunities must be there.
_kovert

Well perhaps I was a little unclear.
I actually do take very limited language classes. But its not something I devote a lot of time to or place high importance on. Since after all it has little affect on my life.
The Japanese language can be extremely intimidating to someone who does not have the time to take it seriously. So while I might be learning enough to get by I guess the thing that really bothered me is that it sounds like they want to give you some kind of exam just to live here. Perhaps something similar to what is required to become a full citizen in the US. Honestly the report was vague and I don’t really know what the foreign minister is looking for.
If they give a test that is around the level of ordering a coffee or directing a cab driver I’d probably be ok. But it would still bug me. I just don’t like having to measure up to some standards that are designed to help god knows who. If they were offering something in return for putting in this hard work then perhaps it would be a different story.

http://www.keepingpaceinjapan.com Turner

The US may not be that far away from it, either – I believe there was a proposition to make English the national language a few years back (fell through, naturally). Naturally, in Japan, it would depend on time spent in the country, but I think this is a good idea; even if it’s not highly enforced, it would be a good push to language stragglers.
majiimeaussie

I can understand the reasoning why this issue has come up. It was also discussed in Australia a couple of years ago.

For me I see it as another thing that will be bad for the economy. Just another impediment to getting people working hear, paying taxes etc.

The big problem appears to be at this stage there is no information on what types of visa’s it would apply to or what type of test. Does it apply only to PR and citizenship or also to work and spousal visas? I can speak Japanese fairly well (enough to do business in it) but with the hours I work it is hard to do enough study to pick up kanji.

http://www.neilduckett.com Neil Duckett

I think it`s been implemented now albeit it`s under side spread scrutiny seeing as many Australians failed a similar exam.

I`m a fan of it for citizenship but for a Visa, even long term of 3 to 5 yrs it may be a bit difficult.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

It’s the national language, after all. It’s not like they’re asking work visa teachers to be fluent. I think it’s just plain lazy to live in a country on a permanent residency and not make the effort to be at least conversational in the national language. I don’t think they’d go as far as to ask applicants to pass the JETRO Business Japanese Test.
http://notjustvisiting.blogspot.com/ Keith

I think this is a horrible idea. Not only does it send the message “If you’re not exactly like us, we don’t want you.”, but it also heavily encourages further isolation, as it gives foreigners trying to contribute to the Japanese economy less of a reason to come here. In a country with a shrinking and aging population, this is a terrible idea. If Japan really wants to remain a world economic powerhouse, they need to embrace their foreign community, not discourage them.

I wouldn’t mind if it was required for citizenship, but for long term Visa’s, that’s a bit outrageous. I also agree that anyone here for the long haul should learn Japanese, but I don’t think it should be forced.

I currently live in Japan and I plan on staying here quite some time. While I am actively taking Japanese language classes, I can easily see why someone would simply not care to learn it. It’s an extremely difficult language to learn and I live quite a full life here without much knowledge beyond hiragana, katakana, limited vocabulary, and a few random kanji, as do many other people. Knowing Japanese is most certainly not vital in Tokyo.

And for those who assume that people don’t learn Japanese because they are ‘lazy’ need to realize that not everyone’s brain works the same. Much like my highly successful father, I understand complex ideas, maps, and abstract concepts quite quickly while things like names, phone numbers, and vocabulary words don’t stick very well. I know someone else who is a complete dunce in almost every way except his ability to pick up on languages is amazing. Does this mean that I’m ‘lazy’, and he isn’t? Of course not.

I think the Japanese government should encourage people to learn Japanese, however this is a terrible way to do it.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

“Long-term visa” = Permanent Residency. As in, “I will permanently reside in this country.”

In response to your brain-type argument, I have a visual memory, as in I remember landmarks instead of addresses and street names, yet somehow I can still speak Japanese. “It’s too hard!” is an excuse to not try. I’ve never heard of a psycholinguistics study that asserts certain types of brains don’t have the ability to learn a language, besides maybe as a result of the physical presence of brain lesions. I have heard of the theories that (A) humans acquire syntactical language ability over time, and (B) language exists because it is human nature. Furthermore, language acquisition is the direct product of external motivation. The problem is that people who don’t learn Japanese while in Japan simply have no reason to do so. They can “get by” without it. Hopefully, this policy will help change that.

Language barriers fracture society into smaller communities that band together because of a common language, but separate them from the larger social structure. This is an effort to minimalize that division.

http://notjustvisiting.blogspot.com/ Keith

I never said that not having the right brain type is an excuse to not learn Japanese. I’m simply saying it comes significantly easier for some than others. And like I said earlier, I know several people who more than just “get by” without knowing Japanese.

Language barriers do fracture society, but if anyone takes a serious look at Japanese society, they will realize that it’s already incredibly fractured. The amount of subcultures and different social groups is staggering.

http://www.japanitup.com/ smoother

There’s more to Japan than just Tokyo. It’ll be interesting to learn the level of Japanese a person would be required to speak. If it’s a lower level requirement I’d say that’s not discouraging foreigners from gaining residency at all. If you live in another country (besides your own) then you should learn some conversational level of their language within a few years or it won’t benefit anybody at all. If I’m in Japan for three years and I can’t talk like a 3 year old then something went wrong.

http://notjustvisiting.blogspot.com/ Keith

There most certainly is more to Japan than Tokyo, however Tokyo is where I live and I only really have that and Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto to go by. In both areas, Japanese is convenient, but not needed. If I wanted to leave the area, I could always call a friend and have them translate for me. It’s not an ideal situation, but the point is Japanese is most certainly not needed in many people’s daily lives.

It would be interesting to see what level of Japanese they are requiring, but my initial point is you most certainly be an active member of society without a word of Japanese.

If Tokyo wants to remain an international city, they shouldn’t force people to assimilate.

mitaker

How can you contribute to Japanese society without speaking the language? All business conducted in japan is conducted in japanese. All cultural interaction is conducted in Japanese. Information, ideas, arts, everything is communicated in japanese. It’s the national language. The ONLY national language.

If you can live life in Japan for years without having to speak a single word of Japanese, I suppose you have a job working for a foreign company with foreign capital. This really isn’t “contributing” to Japanese society at all. In fact, some may make the argument that that is leaking Japanese money overseas.

I am a Japanese living in the US and I felt tremendous pressure here to “assimilate” and was told in social studies classes many times, over many years, from many different teachers and different schools, that immigrants that do not assimilate are not contributing to American society. And it’s not like I was told this in the deep South. This appears to be the standard belief in the US no matter where I go and I agree that that should be the way people feel.

Not learning the language of the country you are a permananent resident of is a sign of absolute neglect of your basic duty as an immigrant. It’s a sign of complete lack of desire to cooperate with society regardless of whether you’re foreign to it or not.

People coming from English-speaking countries probably do not realize the immense amount of pressure that is placed on immigrants to learn English since all immigrants appear to already know English anyway. However, it’s really the fact that Americans demand everyone speak English which causes all immigrants to appear to know the language (or they speak Mexican and Americans will discriminate that person). It is absolutely expected that a person know how to speak English when finding a job in the US and being a foreigner is absolutely no excuse. The response you’ll get if you try to pull that one is “Everyone in the US originally was an immigrant, yet we all learned English. So should you.”

http://alecinjapan.com Alec

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for PR and citizenship. In fact, it would be silly not to make it a requirement. For visas up to 5 years, I don’t think it should be a requirement though.
ty_ping

I think it’s reasonable, and unreasonable at the same time.

In other countries it’s not required that you know the language for a Visa, in fact some only require the lowest level of profficiancy in order to become a citizen. (I know there are many people in Canada that can’t speak any english or french and they’re Canadian)((One of my friends mothers in fact, She got citizenship because my friend was born here, she’s been here 20+ years now and still can’t speak a lick of english or french))

Can a “Gaijin” even become “Nihonjin”? If it’s for citizenship, yes I think someone should be proficiant in the language, if it’s for a residency status, (which is just a fancy Visa, you’re still gaijin trash) No I don’t think you need it. If it’s for a work visa I don’t think you need it.

Does Japan suddenly have a surplus of Gaijin since the downfall of NOVA or something? I was under the impression that since this whole fingerprinting thing went into effect their tourist industry has been going down a bit.
KokuRyu

I’m always amazed at the long-term residents (people who have lived in Japan for ten years) I meet who do not speak Japanese. It’s really weird, and it must be like living in a little dream world. If you learn to speak and read (and write) Japanese, life becomes so much easier to live, and easier to understand.

doinkies

I agree with this. I personally think that anyone who plans to live in a foreign country with another language for a while should learn the language. Like Overthinker said, “To really ‘live’ in a place the language is vital. Unless you’re the world’s worst linguist, I cannot fathom how anyone could want to live in a country and not want to speak the language.”
Rob A

I would be a might shocked to see that as well. I speak a fairly fluent Japanese – I can understand and have a conversation with most people on the street – but I would be concerned by how much of the language they consider ‘knowing’ it… My grammar still isn’t perfect, and I don’t know a lot of the Kanji, but from what I understand a lot of native Japanese people who are wapuro-baka (word-processer-stupid) only know how to spell or type the romaji and pick the right one from the lists on a computer, and not actually how to write or draw the characters anyhow. Will Kana get you past this requirement? Or will you have to major in the language and know x-thousand characters to pass?

The Overthinker

I wouldn’t imagine in a million years that anything like Nihongo Kentei 1-kyu would be required. I think people here are getting worried needlessly.

Kevin

I’m thinking that if this ever did get implemented it would probably be 4, maybe 3-kyu. Level 4 is obtainable by ANYONE who puts in a mild amount of effort. Make yourself some flashcards and you can pass the level 4 in a year (I’ve seen it many times).
I also don’t see this as an unreasonable request. It would be nice if this meant they would start to relax their policies regarding citizenship, but at the same time, asking people who plan on living here in the long-term to speak basic Japanese seems like common sense to me.

http://randomurl.com LondonGaijin

I don’t care what anyone says, Japan should enforce this already!

Don’t leave it 40 years too late like the UK.

Bruce Smith

I totally agree. And Australia and the US should do the same.

ty_ping

Problem with America trying to enforce it is they don’t have a national language yet, and I don’t think they’ll ever be able to decide on one since the majority of politicians are english speakers, but the majority of the population speaks something else. (Mostly spanish)

That and those countries that have Birth Status living can never enforce it since all it takes is someone to have a Baby on their soil and irregardless of their linguistic knowledge they become a citizen via their child. Canada and the USA have those citizenship loopholes.

http://www.transpacificradio.com/ Garrett

While it is true that the US has no official language, it is not at all true that “the majority of the population speaks something else. (Mostly Spanish.)”

Spanish is the most common language other than English in the US and fastest growing language, but you’re still looking at under ten percent of the American population that speaks Spanish as a native language. Approximately 12% of the US population is Latino, many of whom (those born in the US) speak English as a native language; very few non-Latinos speak Spanish as a first language.

Your second paragraph is also inaccurate. Anyone born in the US is eligible for citizenship, but, under US law, that explicitly does not include any other relations. It can help a parent, but it does not guarantee a parent citizenship.

And “native born citizenship” is not a loophole, it’s a plan. It is designed to encourage citizenship and to base citizenship on being a part of the society rather than by blood.
phauna

Lucky for -ty_ping- there is no test, as ‘irregardless’ is not a word.
The Overthinker

Well, it is a word, just not a very good one:
“Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.”

Bruce Smith

This is common sense.
Rob A

I think this is a great idea, if the US applies the same rule. If you want to live here, learn the language. I know plenty of Japanese immigrants who barely speak english, as well as Chinese immigrants, but they’re full-fledged citizens without meeting that requirement.

Sounds like in Japan, it’s Nihongo or No-go.
http://myso-calledjapaneselife.blogspot.com/ Shari

As usual, the foreign community views these sorts of things from a very shallow viewpoint rather than considering the viability of this from a wider perspective. It’s not about how it affects us. It’s about how it affects Japan and the notion that this will “smooth” transition and aid integration is window dressing for a comment made to placate nationalists. Folks who speak fluent Japanese and have lived here a long time seem utterly ignorant of the fact that Japanese politicians kiss up to the hardcore right just like American Republicans kiss up to the religious right.

The bottom line is that this will cost businesses money, particularly industries which hire a number of unskilled and semi-skilled as they will either have to train them in the language at their own expense to meet qualifications or hire only those affluent enough to have studied by themselves. This will almost certainly increase the wages of skilled and semi-skilled workers as fewer people will decide to come and work here.

In the very long term, it will serve to decrease the wages of the people who are the most gleeful about this, the smug people who are already fluent or largely fluent in Japanese as once the ball gets rolling and more and more folks learn Japanese, the number of foreign folks who are competing for jobs requiring Japanese proficiency will increase and wages will drop (much like the increased number of teachers has allowed their wages to drop).

Depending on how this is applied, this could see the bottom end of the foreign workforce see an increase and the top a decrease, but it will certainly make hiring more difficult and expensive for business as well as require a new and costly level of bureaucracy that the tax payers will be footing the bill of initially and the gaijins will be paying (likely big) for in standardized tests later.

The world is bigger than English teachers and foreigners who want this implemented to kick out some gaijin so that “their Japan” is a little less cluttered with non-speaking riff-raff. In the end, there’s a high chance Japanese businesses will press the government not to do this because of the expense and barriers it will raise to get desperately-needed cheap foreign labor.

The Overthinker

Surely wages and potential income are not the be-all and end-all to this issue. I find the alternative, a wholescale importation of cheap unskilled (and not speaking the local language) labour to be a worse threat than the possibility of income decreases for those that are already fluent. Ethnic strife and the further, and serious, spread of “gaijin ghettoes” are not to be encouraged (I personally am opposed to the idea of “multi-cultural” societies – I do not consider them either stable or truly coherent).

Besides, language proficiency is often just one of many qualifications required, and a securities analyst, for example, is no more likely to have his job taken by an immigrant from Africa speaking Japanese than a random Japanese-speaking Japanese.

I don’t know who here wants non-speaking gaijin kicked out, but I personally would welcome the chance to encourage them to learn the language. This isn’t about being exclusive, about “protecting our little fantasy-land Japans,” but about being inclusive, opening it up for others to experience.
Kevin

I would agree with you, but this implies that the government wants foreigners here to stay long-term – which I disagree with. Most likely, they are going to give part-time/non-skilled labor visas which will only last for at most 3 years and probably be non-renewable. I think this is something like the training program that is currently in place.
I do see this as pandering to the conservatives but I also don’t think as much will change as you stated. For most people working in Japan using Japanese as the language of business, salaries don’t vary from that of normal salary-people. If you are talking about the salary of English-teaching jobs, those are already dropping.
The Overthinker

That said, I do like your idea that this, by raising the barriers to immigration, is a sop to the right wing. By both appealing to the rightwing politicos wanting to keep immigration down, and the left-wing (?) liberals who see this as an attempt at inclusionism, it’s a neat way of satisfying both sides.

Of course a lot of gaijin in Japan (or at least the educated first-world sort) share the Japanese right-wing ideas that Japan is something that needs protecting from the world, that her Unique Culture (TM) needs to be guarded against the ignorant savages that lie outside the walls.
http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

Shari,
You’re confusing imported labor with long-term residency. For long-term residency you need to have resided in the country for 10 years continuously on a working visa, or 5 years if you’re married to a Japanese national. If this policy even sees the light of day, it will not affect imported labor at all. And, after 5 or 10 years in a country, shame on anyone who can’t use the national language on at least a basic level. (You should at least be a false-beginner at that point, even without studying)

I’ve noticed this trend, where if a policy in Japan affects in any way English-speaking foreigners, the outcry is, “This will harm the Japanese economy! (Not because it will affect me…*batting eyelids*)” This is just trying to sidestep the very apparent, selfish opposition. It sounds like more of a threat than logical reasoning, and there hasn’t been any evidence that the Japanese economy is taking a hit because of these policies.

I can’t stand all of this scaremongering amongst the foreign community! Set some standards, for crying out loud! It’s better than living as a confirmation of the stereotyped image of the oblivious foreigner, stuck in his or her Western upbringing and unwilling (or unable to) learn anything about Japan, especially the language. Defy the prejudice! Change their opinions of you!

http://myso-calledjapaneselife.blogspot.com/ Shari

If you look at the definition of “long term residents”, this isn’t going to affect folks like English teachers but the type of people who are allowed to be here as the foreign-born descendent’s of Japanese parents in countries like Peru. These are the people who end up working in factories or restaurants and are, for all intents and purposes, “imported labor”. They are here mainly because they can have a better quality of life in Japan compared to their home countries and would be replaced by pricier labor if they were pushed out by this requirement.

Here is the reference for “long term residency”:

From the MOFA website:

Long-term Resident Vis: 3 years, 1 year, 6 months, or a designated period of less than 3 years Refugees as stipulated by the convention relating to the Status of Refugees, Indochinese refugee settlers, second- and third-generation Japanese settlers, etc.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/04.html

These are people who can work in Japan without restrictions. Foreigners who work in Japan under the other types of working visas have certain restrictions on them and I’m guessing they are not the target of the comment.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

And so you think that Japan is asking too much by making them learn the national language in return for offering them a better life? You think Japan is going to far for requiring them to make an effort to become a part of society, the same society that they are making a living off of? Nothing is free.
http://myso-calledjapaneselife.blogspot.com/ Shari

I never said anything about what “should” be done or what is “best”. I said that it is economically unwise and not in the business community’s best interest and that the comments are likely politically motivated.

It’s the same reason there’s always a lot of rabble in t he U.S. about adopting English as an official language and stopping Mexicans from coming over the border, but no serious steps are taken in either case. It’s bad for businesses that need cheap, uneducated, unskilled labor. A country shouldn’t use another country’s people to do its dirty work and then start criticizing them or making demands of them. There is a price for everything that is done and the Japanese can have cheap labor with a small social problem or more expensive labor which integrates more fully. If they insist these folks speak Japanese, they will gravitate toward better jobs and they will lose workers. That’s not a judgment about whether having those skills is better or worse for Japan but a fact of the way labor will flow. Who would work in a factory when they can communicate well enough to work in an office and are here under a visa status which gives them the freedom to do so?

The tactic you (Alex) are using to argue here is called “straw man” (and you tried it on my blog as well). You extrapolate something from what a person has said which they did not actually say just so you can more easily knock it down. You might want to try learning to argue with what is actually said rather than reinterpreting what is said so it’s easier to disagree with.
The Overthinker

“Who would work in a factory when they can communicate well enough to work in an office and are here under a visa status which gives them the freedom to do so?”

The problem here is that you seem to be assuming that language skills are all that is needed to jump from working in a factory to working in an office. Now, if we have Brazilian and Peruvian office-workers (or similarly-educated) people working in Japanese factories as manual labourers, this might be an issue. But is that the case?

At any rate, without more detailed information about what exactly this guy means, we can’t really discuss the issue properly.
http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

I’m just reading between the lines, Shari. And you are simply appealing to emotion. Rather, scaremongering. There is no logical link between PR requirements and the strength of the Japanese economy; it’s a ridiculous claim to make. Have you already noticed barren hotels and tourist destinations because of the fingerprinting requirements, as well?

morningstar

Great idea for every foreigner to know Japanese entering Japan. Don’t we have to know the language to the country when we travel? So what make Japan different? Japanese learn English before they come here.
hadji

I think these policies should be reciprocal. If Japan wants people coming to its country to know the language then other countries should make sure that Japanese people know the language of whatever country they live in.

El oh el.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

It is reciprocal – Japan is getting cheap labor, imported workers are getting a better life.

It’s not asking too much for people to be a part of the society that they are making a living off of.

taiko666

After reading several fora it seems some of the ‘Ninongo snobs’ among the foreign community in Japan are in 7th heaven. They love it that gaijin who haven’t made the effort to learn the language are probably going to have to pay by having their visa renewals rejected and their lives consequently upturned.

I completely agree that one *should* learn the language; I’ve done my best to. But I don’t look down on gaijin who can function perfectly happily and contribute to Japanese society while not being able to speak Japanese.

If this proposal is adopted the flow of skilled foreign labour into Japanese will be reduced to a trickle.

For citizenship or PR, yes, a language test is appropriate. For a mere working visa? Pure xenophobia.

Kevin

So you’re going to tell me that as a long-term resident of Japan you’re unwilling to learn even the basics of the language?
The article says nothing about working visas. It says that long-term residents may have to learn the language. That means that you are either A) Married to a Japanese national or B) Have a permanent resident visa (i.e. you’ve lived in Japan 10 years).
If after 5 or 10 years you have no Japanese ability whatsoever, I guess I fall into that category of Nihongo snobs. Going a decade without even bothering to pick up even 4-kyu Japanese skills is truly sad.

taiko666

Didn’t you read the line

“I completely agree that one *should* learn the language; I’ve done my best to.”

I’ve been here 4 years and got JLPT 3. Not that much, but it gets me by. I just don’t look down on people who don’t feel the need to learn the language.

Please read posts properly before you reply.

http://esperanto.memlink.ca Brian

Seems to me like another good argument for taking a serious look at ‘universal bilingualism’ [YOUR language + Esperanto for all], and making an effort to meet each other halfway. Several comments above have mentioned the difficulty of Japanese, and most Japanese seem to find English devilishly difficult, but apparently not so with the more regular non-ethnic Esperanto. Last August’s
92nd annual World Esperanto Congress in Yokohama showed once more in actual practice how such communication can be accomplished – a large number of the almost 2000 Esperanto-speakers there from 57 different countries were Japanese.

Aki

Saluton! Mi estis Esperanto when I was a member of Esperanto club in a university in Japan, but I have forgotten most of the words I remembered…

hadji

If the test is the Japanese equivalent of the TOEIC, doing well on that test will be no measure of real ability.
ty_ping

I guess my problem is I understand why alot of people can’t speak Japanese, I mean after 10 years I’m hoping that I’ll be able to pick it up but I’ve been in Japan for one year and one year olds can still speak better then me.
So I can see how someone really can float trough 10 years of their life and not know much.

The reason behind this isn’t lazyness, I study, I’m just not very good at understanding things unless someone goes over them with me over and over again, so unless I have the oppertunity to speak constantly, I’ll forget very quickly.

I know there’s going to be a “But you’re in Japan of course you have the oppertunity to speak”

Not really.

I worked at an English School so I was not permitted to speak Japanese on school property, Students that I chat with did not want to let me practice my Japanese on them, after all they want to get as much free English speaking time as they can considering how pricy their lessons are.
The Japanese staff wouldn’t speak Japanese to me because like the students, they wanted to get as much free English lesson time as they could.

While one of my co-workers was willing to teach me, he only spoke Japanese on a mid level ability. So if I had a question he usually couldn’t answer it, and some things he taught he wasn’t sure if he was doing it right or if people just understood generally what he was getting at.
(That and he also only spoke very rude, collage kid, male, Japanese with loads of slang while I want to learn more polite Japanese)

I have a Japanese boyfriend who refuses out right to speak to me in Japanese at all. (I have no idea why) And laughs at me whenever I make a mistake in Japanese.

I tried to do a language exhange but on the one serious exchange I got all they wanted was free English lessons and were not prepared to teach me anything.
The other two just wanted a gaijin girlfriend but thought the personal ads would make them sound deperate.

This leave either paying for lessons, or, self study.

I tried paying for lessons but the lesson sign up only went once every 6 months, so for the first 6 months in Japan I was hooped. The second time around I remembered and signed up but then my work schedule changed my days off switched and I couldn’t go to the lesson slot I paid for.
Self study I have flashcards and books and I watch TV and take Audio lessons but I can’t learn this way very well. I find myself repeating the same three lessons in my books over and over again. (So I’ve REALLY got introductions down, but I can’t say much past that)
People that are smart really can’t understand those that are stupid so I understand why a lot of you think a language is a cake walk and the rest of us are lazy.
But from one trying gaijin who just can’t get it. I’m glad I never plan on living in Japan forever because I don’t think I’ll ever become fluent. I can barely understand my own language.

Kevin

I recommend aiming for the Japanese proficiency test in December. The sign-ups are in the summer, I think July to Sept., and there are textbooks and testbooks available at major bookstores. I can understand your frustration at not being able to speak, but if you have a goal it might help your progress. My coworker was in almost your exact same situation, and after a year of study she was able to pass the exam.
The Overthinker

“I have a Japanese boyfriend who refuses out right to speak to me in Japanese at all. (I have no idea why) And laughs at me whenever I make a mistake in Japanese.”

Here’s the answer – you’re selling yourself short. Dump the guy and find someone who won’t laugh at you. Also, while I don’t know where you live, many areas in Japan have free Japanese lessons for foreigners – ask at the city office gaijin area.

“I tried paying for lessons but the lesson sign up only went once every 6 months”

I think there is likely to be more than one language school in somewhere like Tokyo. Shop around. Don’t settle for places where you can’t change your time slot. Again, selling yourself short I think.

You’re right that TV isn’t going to be of much help if you’re still struggling with introductions. TV is more for intermediate learners.

You refer to the English language mill in the past tense – what are you doing now?

ty_ping

sitting around and enjoying being unemployed by playing a god forsaken amount of World of Warcraft
^_^

I’ll be looking for a new job soon, I just figured I’d take a long overdue vacation after NOVA bellied up and g-com turned out to be the douchbag I figured it to be in the first place.

http://www.victorymanual.com Alex

It sounds like your problem is just that you don’t know how to study right. You need to study every day, if only for just an hour. But don’t skip any days in the week. Be persistent, and don’t be deterred by people who are unwilling to speak in Japanese with you.

ty_ping

I usually get in a 1 hr every day at least, I flashcard on the way to work (1/2 hr there and back) and during my break if the staff isn’t trying to get in their free english time or I’m not doing something for a student I’m making new flashcards.

I am selling myself a bit short here though, I can read now. Katakana and Hirigana, and not including numbers I can read maybe… 20 kanji in japanese and 10 more just in english (like the kanji for “Down” and “River” I know they mean that but I don’t know what the word is in Japanese for Down or River) I can muddle about in a store and a restaraunt and have a conversation on if I like or dislike something. But I just wish I knew more.

But I still understand peoples difficulties because it’s been an uphill battle. And I hate studying.
Plus my roommate studies with me but at least I have the gift of steller pronociation, she sounds so very english when she speaks Japanese. You know how students sometimes talk in english entirely in Katakana. It’s like that, only as an english speaker I don’t even know what she’s saying. But bless her for trying.

The Overthinker

I know what you mean about the “english” accent. I’ve heard more than a few people saying things like “watashi wa Australia kara kimashita” (ie with ‘Australia’ in English, not ‘Oosutoraria’). I’ve even heard PhD professors with atrocious accents, despite being fluent. So they’re not necessarily linked. Nor a sign of ability at understanding the language. But then all other things being equal, a good accent is certainly going to make you sound a lot more fluent (or even if they aren’t equal).

I tried using flashcards once or twice, but found them a horrible way to study. They just really really annoy me for some reason. One thing I used to do was try and read simple comics – like Sazae-san – with the help of a dictionary. Just sit down, look up every word if you need to, and get some basics under your belt. With comics you get the stuff in context, unlike flashcards. In other words, learn sentences, not words.

PS: River is ‘kawa,’ like Tamagawa or Yodogawa or Kamogawa. Down is ‘shita,’ like ‘shitamachi.’ (which isn’t the English “downtown” or CBD though).

PPS: Here’s some English to teach those staff members who think you are there to teach them English as well: “Sod off!”

Bruce Smith

Time to trade-in your boyfriend on a more helpful and cooperative model.

ty_ping

Well even though his english is really good I still poke fun at any of his mistakes simply because he’s being an ass to me. But that’s just how he is, I think he does it to try and make me study or something, one of my friends told me that’s just how Japanese guys can be.

And jeze I feel a little flatterd as though you guys were making me out to be a catch or something. I’m really Otaku, most guys get a little weirded out by that.

And too many otaku boys are just a little too much on the pervert side for me.

Oh delema.

http://www.transpacificradio.com/ Garrett

I hope this will fine-tune the debate a bit and clarify one very important point: whom Komura was talking about.

Mr. Komura said “長期滞在を希望する外国人へのビザ.” “滞在,” unless I’m greatly mistaken, would translate to something like “stay.” Importantly, he did not say, “居住,” which means “reside” or “live.” Seems clear he was talking about shorter-term working visas, not residency. By specifically referring to “visas,” he was also clearly not talking about permanent residents, who, by definition, are not visa holders.

Visas come in two broad categories: short-term and long-term. Long-term visas are only for those that are considered to be in Japan at the invitation of the government, viz. spouses or children of Japanese nationals or permanent residents, or refugees.

Thus, it seems clear he’s talking about contract workers and the like. (He technically could have been talking about anyone who is not a permanent resident, on a spouse/dependent visa, or a refugee.) Considering that the language requirement for citizenship is supposed to gauge whether or not a naturalizing resident can use Japanese at the level of a junior high school student, it seems unlikely much would be asked of prospective temporary workers.

This could be a nod to reality on two levels: One, that Japan must increase immigration. Two, that increasing immigration is publicly unpopular. So, Komura could be nipping fears in the bud by addressing one complaint leveled at immigrants, viz. “We can’t communicate with them,”before looking at an expansion of immigration or short-term visa issuances.

The Overthinker

You may find that 長期滞在 is referred to even for 永住権 visas.

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samuel welsh

very reasonable

Japan May Require Foreign Residents to Know Japanese

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