Putin: Stalin Did Some Bad Stuff, But What About The American Atomic Bombings?
Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken a strong stance against foreigners telling Russia how it should teach its history:
President Vladimir Putin said no one should try to make Russia feel guilty about one of the most notorious episodes of the Stalinist era -the so-called Great Purge of 1937 – saying that “in other countries even worse things happened.”
Speaking at a televised meeting on Thursday with social studies teachers, Putin noted that 2007 is the 70th anniversary of a year that many Russians regard as a synonym for state-sponsored terror. It is an anniversary that has, however, gotten relatively little attention in Russian media.
[...]
Russia should “never forget” the abuses of the Communist era, Putin said. But he also said no one had the right to make Russia feel guilty about those abuses.
“No one must be allowed to impose the feeling of guilt on us,” he said. “Let them think about themselves. But we must not and will not forget about the grim chapters in our history.”
[...]
Speaking with the teachers, Putin suggested the United States’ use of atomic weapons against Japan at the end of World War II was worse than the abuses of Stalin. He also cited the massive US bombing campaigns during the war in Vietnam, as well as the use there of the defoliant Agent Orange.
“We have not used nuclear weapons against a civilian population,” he said. “We have not sprayed thousands of kilometres (miles) with chemicals, (or) dropped on a small country seven times more bombs than in all the Great Patriotic (war),” as WWII is known in Russia.
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I somewhat agree with Putin.
US is much more aggressive.
I mean — things done in Japan & Vietnam are biggest crimes in human history.
Apart from only Native American Holocaust, again perpetrated by European colonists in America.
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Wow. The comments by antc and lottenroll reveal either two people with a very VERY low knowledge of history or, quite simply, two drooling idiots.
Stalin murdered tens of millions of people. He effectively turned the entire population of the Soviet Union into slaves. He was one of the biggest mass murderers tyrants in history, never mind the 20th century!
Do yourselves a favor. Pick up a history book. I’d start with Anne Applebaum’s Gulag: A History, Martin Amis “Koba the Dread” and finally, the piece the resistance: Robert Conquest’s “The Great Terror”.
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So you think Russia should be ashamed of it’s crimes and start being an emo? Yes i do know Stalin did horrible things, but there have been other crimes as well commited by western democracies, you don’t seem to know that, do you? History is always written by winners, and sometimes it is healthy to look things from other perspectives.
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Come on. Let the numbers speak for themselves. The atomic bombings were terrible without a doubt but to argue that Stalin’s terror campaign on any and all individuals deemed ‘enemies’ is without a doubt one of the worst crimes in the 20th century. In all we are comparing apples and oranges here.
Its funny that Putin defends Stalin because lately Putin has becoming much like Stalin. Smashing dissent, murdering individuals via secret police, silencing the media and lets not forget waging his own ‘war against terror’ in Chechnya.
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Adding the casaulties of atomics bombs and Vietnam gassing + bombing, Stalin’s purge isn’t anything. And war against terror in Chechenya, well all i can say is that Iraq has been much worse. They had no reason nor justification to go there unlike Russia, and the results have been worse.
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Uh, it isn’t simply about number of casualties here. Execution wise Stalin’s numbers were less than that of the wars, but how many were convicted for little to no reason. How many had their lives taken from them in a different manner of speaking. How many were sent to Gulags? How many died there? The fact of the matter is that it isn’t simply a matter of how many people tied you see. Its more than that. Theres plenty of reason and justification to go into Iraq. From WMD to shadowy terrorist organizations. The reasons don’t really matter. They do what they want when they want.
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How lopsided is this? Well let me tell you something. Bush just filed an Executive Order to arrest anyone that ‘disturbs national security interests’… namely, anyone that protests against the current Iraq war, the Bush Administration, and the Republican Party.
How do you explain Cindy Sheehan, Korey Rowe, and Valerie Plume? Cindy Sheehan and many of her supporters were arrested this week. Korey Rowe was about to release a documentary about lies being told by the US Army when he got arrested. And lets not forget how Plume got her clandestine disguises exposed by Karl Rove and that guy didn’t get death by injection. Unfortunately, to you, they don’t sound like much at all because you think they’re nothing compared to what Russia has done to its people.
How about being told to mind your own business. America is in a sorry state of affairs, with political dissent now a punishable criminal offence just because Bush doesn’t want anymore crap coming his way. Oh, and he just said yesterday that pulling out of the already failed Iraq war is a bad idea because terrorists would have won… and guess what… terrorists have already won – they got you into imposing privacy violations for even less security, and all they did was take out the WTC.
The funniest part of all this? America is not under communism, dictatorship, or anarchy. It’s a democracy.
Get a grip, and stop watching Fox News.
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Cindy Sheehan and many of her supporters were arrested this week.
From the AP:
Antiwar activist Cindy Sheehan and dozens of supporters were arrested at the Rayburn House office building in Washington DC on Monday following an hour-long meeting with Democratic Representative John Conyers of Michigan.
Sheehan and others came to the offices to meet with Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, to demand he initiate impeachment proceedings against President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. When Conyers indicated he would not begin such proceedings and the protesters refused to leave, an estimated 47 were led away in plastic handcuffs by Capital Police.
Sheehan and her cohorts were arrested protesting a DEMOCRAT! They were arrested because the REFUSED TO LEAVE!!! She is angry because they wouldn’t impeach Bush… even though to my knowledge, Bush hasn’t done anything that warrants impeachment!
Korey Rowe
Rowe was arrested for being deserter. In his own words:
Rowe said he believes it’s an administrative error on the part of the military. Nielson-Green conceded that could be the case, but said it was all speculation at this point.
And lets not forget how Plume got her clandestine disguises exposed by Karl Rove and that guy didn’t get death by injection
Plame wasn’t even covert! And it was Richard Amratage that talked about her after she used her nepotistic influence to get the CIA to send her husband to Niger, gave his testimony to the CIA, then changed his story when writing a piece for the New York Times! And for that, Rove should face the death penalty? SPARE ME!!!
Get a grip, and stop watching Fox News.
Maybe you should quit reading The Daily Kos or Moveon.org, or whatever leftist nutjob website you are getting your information from.
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JC
Hmm. Well, you sure have it all figured out. First off, I do not watch Fox news. Nor did I ever say that what Bush and Co. are/have done is ok. Silly personal attacks are the foundation of dogmatic arguments aka arguments that have been repeated over and over by various die hard partisans who are unaware of the fact that they are just repeating one group’s talking points.
I know it is hard for people to have a balanced historical perspective when people like Bush are in power, but you have successfully spouted a couple of democrat or left leaning talking points in your post about Putin discussing Stalin’s past and foreign criticism of it. I can’t quite understand how they are directly related other than the fact that Putin and Bush have been going at each other for some time now. The fact remains that historians keep in mind the big picture. When discussing Bush, the Iraq War and other various disasters the last 8 years have seen most people aren’t going off the deep end. His leadership has been terrible at best and criminal at the worst, however the often cited comparison between Bush and Hitler is ridiculous when one looks at the big picture. Its the same with Stalin and Bush. It is ridiculous. Sure, Bush isn’t done yet and could do far more damage than he has already done but I think we should hold off for a bit before we make fools of ourselves.
I never said that the Iraq War was something I agreed with hence I don’t quite understand your personal attack on me. But when it comes to living under Stalin and living under Bush and co. I’d be stupid to say I’d choose Stalin.
Minding my own business? Thats kind of like all those folks out there that say ‘You shouldn’t study Asian history because you are White.’ I got news for you buddy, its a big world but its getting smaller everyday. Unlike under Stalin I have the right to say what I want where I want. Ever think about that for a second?
Btw, Bush can sign all the executive orders he wants. Unlike Stalin, he has a judiciary and body of representatives to account to. As well the definition of who is disturbing the national security interests is up to interpretation. Keep in mind that courts decide who is guilty not George Bush. Once again, perspective goes a long way here.
I don’t disagree with Cindy Sheehan and I think the Plume [sic] scandal is disgusting. I personally think that Bush should be impeached. That is my personal stance on things. It still doesn’t mean that his administration is worse than Stalin’s or even Putin’s for that matter. Go check out who Putin has targeted. Go read about what has happened to Gary Kasparov because he has been voicing opposition to Putin. Its not that same. Sure America is in a sorry state of affairs, but you know what saying ‘mind your own business’ is the ultimate lame duck response.
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Minding my own business? Thats kind of like all those folks out there that say ‘You shouldn’t study Asian history because you are White.’ I got news for you buddy, its a big world but its getting smaller everyday. Unlike under Stalin I have the right to say what I want where I want. Ever think about that for a second?
Yeah, what’s wrong with you? Don’t you know you should exclusively study the bible and to hell with other cultures if you’re white? Don’t you know that other countries are *insert horrid adjective here*? Oh wait, I forgot one, “freedom isn’t free”. *cough* Ignorance and mastery of “facts” within one’s own limited horizon are really pathetic. Don’t worry, the world will get bigger again, people are getting sicker and sicker of such rhetoric as Unseen’s. No one takes people like that seriously anyway, I seem to think Mr. Unseen has either read one too many comic books or seen too much sci-fi. I recall having a friend with a similar personality who I’d often clash with, that would treat movies as fact about things in the real world. Yet he purported to have logical arguments rooted in fact. (I remember one conversation in particular about how the devil is a people person based on Al Pacino’s portrayal of him in The Devil’s Advocate, and since I don’t believe in primitive fairy tales about devils and angels and irrational things like that, it made it twice as funny that he treated it as fact) Don’t worry, rationality will prevail, I mean Russia actually has a bureau now to determine what level of culture is satanic, and they came up with the result that 700 popular heavy metal songs, about 35% of metal, worships satan. This is something that is government sanctioned, how long until people get fed up with things like this? Honestly.
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I seem to think Mr. Unseen blah blah blah blah blah blah blah…
Ever heard of a “straw man” argument? Straw men are easier to whop on than the real thing, aren’t they?
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For the record I was addressing JC not Unseen One.
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No worries, Shazzb0t.
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Political and religious tendancies, these pasts months and years, have harden their stances:
- Benoit XVI claimed “only catholics are in the truth” banning all other protestant and evangelical groups
- French President Sarkosy claimed “We (French) did not invented the “Final Solution” as an allusion to the Jewish Holocaust leaving behind the shameful Vichy era
- Bush… well, you know well already.
- now Putin…
Is the end of the world soon?
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I’ve always wondered why people are more angry about the atomic bombings as opposed to the Tokyo conventional bombings during world war II. The Tokyo bombings killed far more civilians with the resulting fires.
Either way in those cases the numbers are in the hundreds of thousands, while in Stalin’s purges the numbers are in the tens of millions.
And there was the difference of purposes too. WWII would have cost millions of more lives on both sides to finish, were it not for the atomic bombs being used. Whereas Stalin killed people because they didn’t fit in to his grand plan of securing his political power.
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Uh, How will he compare a country done to another to what a leader did to his own country? Pretty pathetic. Is he on his right mind?
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Agreed Putin has a point that Russia is not the only country in the world to have committed human atrocities and the fact that Russia should not forget what suffering was endured during those years is a point of view that should be encouraged. However all countries have a history of violence and other countries should look at how they approach the teaching of their own history.
But i dont agree with is the attitude, ‘well, we may have done bad in the past, but hey look, others have done worse.’ It shouldnt matter who has done worse, human suffering is not something that should not be neglected or treated lightly. It should not have to be a matter of the one has killed more should be the one to address it first.
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I mean — things done in Japan & Vietnam are biggest crimes in human history.
WOAH!!! I think someone needs some serious lesson in historical perspective!
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Hmmmm.. The US bombing Japan ended not only WWII but also ended military rule of Japan forever.
The Soviet Union was responsible for TENS OF MILLIONS of deaths under Stalin alone. And what about the annexing of the “satelite” nations of Latvia, Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Afganistan? The Berlin Wall? The Gulags? The list goes on and on.
Anyone who says the US has committed worse atrocities than the Soviet Union is either a.) blindly emotional b.) Ignorant of history or c.)Both.
By the way, does anyone think Putin was behind the poisoning of dissidents? What about the reporters that have been found murdered?
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The US has committed worse atrocities than the Soviet Union.
#1: Iraq war. Conspiracy theorists are right – this isn’t about Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, or nukes. This is about oil, period.
#2: War on terror. Countless violations and cases of state-sponsored ignorance of basic human rights. At home and abroad.
#3: Discrimination. Thanks to the Bush Administration it is legal to forbid blacks to vote through all means necessary because they will surely vote Democrat. Taking them off voter lists, branding them as criminals while claiming whites are saviors, threatening them with jail time, force them into insanely long waiting times just to register votes.
#4: Agent Orange. Let’s see… that continues to plague Vietnam and you’re claiming it didn’t happen.
#5: Nukes. Did US ever say sorry for using nukes? No.
and finally #6: Political dissent. Thanks to the Patriot Act, Executive Orders, and an overzealous power-hungry political party, just saying “Iraq war has failed” lands you prison terms. That isn’t any better than what Russia or China has done for ages.
If you are patriotic while ignoring the abuses from Bush, you are a terrorist.
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Are you illiterate? No one is claiming anything didn’t happen, or that the US is innocent. We just don’t have a grudge against them. Let me write the truth again in a way your MySpace brain can handle.
STALIN WAS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.
DURING THE SOVIET ERA, SAYING THINGS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT WOULD GET YOU KILLED, NOT JUST THROWN IN JAIL.
Obviously you aren’t reading what anyone else has written, so I thought the caps lock would help.
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#1: If it were only about oil, it would have been better to keep Hussein in power. It was about hitting the military nexus of the Islamic world.
#2 Uh huh.
#3 A complete crock! Got any evidence of this? I mean from a reputable source, not some insane leftist moonbat blog site.
#4 Turns out our guys suffered from that too.
#5 Why should we apologize? It was a war, and it saved countless American lives!
#6 Yeah, you’re right there. Remember when Harry Reid was dragged off the Senate floor, beaten with billy clubs, and thrown into prison when he said just that? Oh, wait a minute! THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN!!! At least not in a little place called “reality”.
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#1 If it was about hitting the military nexus, it wouldn’t still have been justificated. UN never gave it’s acceptance to the war. Also you see the Islamic world as a united group, probably as an evil one, which it isn’t.
#4 Doesn’t it make it even worse? Stalin killed his own people, so shouldn’t it make Stalin a saint if sacrificing “own guys” is a way of gaining justification?
#5 You don’t believe that yourself either. Japan had little resources, and couldn’t really had launched a succesful attack at that time of the war. They were already beaten.
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If it was about hitting the military nexus, it wouldn’t still have been justificated.
It was justified in 1998 when Hussein broke the 1991 cease fire and kicked the inspectors out. Unfortunately, Clinton didn’t do anything about it. Plus practically every intelligence agency in the world thought they had WMDs.
UN never gave it’s acceptance to the war.
So what? The UN is a flaccid, useless organization that fancies itself a world government, which its not.
Doesn’t it make it even worse?
No, that lends evidence that it was a mistake.
Stalin killed his own people, so shouldn’t it make Stalin a saint if sacrificing “own guys” is a way of gaining justification?
Stalin killed his own people on purpose. The purpose of dropping agent orange was to defoliate areas of jungle the enemy was hiding in, not to cause cancer in soldiers on both sides. Cancer was an unintended consequence.
Plus, you want to talk about crimes against humanity? Talk to some of the Hmong people of Laos and ask them what happened after the US pulled out of Vietnam. Ask them about the slaughter that followed as retribution for helping the US. Of course the American left didn’t seem to care much about that.
You don’t believe that yourself either.
Well then, if you are so damn psychic that you can tell me my thoughts, why don’t you do something USEFUL with you powers and give me this coming Saturday’s powerball numbers!
Japan had little resources, and couldn’t really had launched a succesful attack at that time of the war.
Do you realize how many casualties both sides would have taken in an invasion of the Japanese mainland? That was what would have followed had the US not dropped the bombs.
They were already beaten.
They had not surrendered, so they were not beaten.
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Plus practically every intelligence agency in the world thought they had WMDs. How do you think so? I don’t think much anyone ever believed they had WMDs (except citizens like you), UN inspectors didn’t find anything and nothing was ever found. Being that paranoid, I think you are worried about things like giant meteors and bird flue as well.
Stalin killed his own people on purpose. The purpose of dropping agent orange was to defoliate areas of jungle the enemy was hiding in, not to cause cancer in soldiers on both sides. Cancer was an unintended consequence. Yes, that is what they tell you.
Japan had little resources, and couldn’t really had launched a succesful attack at that time of the war.
Do you realize how many casualties both sides would have taken in an invasion of the Japanese mainland? That was what would have followed had the US not dropped the bombs.
That would have probably happened if you was to decide.
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How do you think so? I don’t think much anyone ever believed they had WMDs (except citizens like you), UN inspectors didn’t find anything and nothing was ever found. Being that paranoid, I think you are worried about things like giant meteors and bird flue as well.
Hm. Let’s see… the CIA thought they had them, as was evident all throughout the Clinton administration. The UK’s intelligence thought they had them. Israel’s intelligence thought they had them. Russia, China… ALL of the G8 countries! When Hussein kicked the inspectors out in 1998, plenty of the American politicians who are now crying that there never were WMDs are on record saying that they did in fact exist. In the run-up to the Iraq war, the same thing.
Yes, that is what they tell you.
HA!!! And you call me paranoid.
That would have probably happened if you was to decide.
There you go pretending to be psychic again. Still waiting for the powerball numbers.
Emotional supposition is no basis for an argument.
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#5 Why should we apologize? It was a war, and it saved countless American lives!
And that, sir, encapsulates your WHOLE method of thinking. It also puts your picture next to “hypocrite” in the dictionary. So why should Japan apologize for Pearl Harbor? Why should they apologize for Yasukuni visits? “American lives” puts it all up front, it’s okay to decimate the civilian population of non-whiteys in a wholly inhumane way, I mean there’s more where that came from, right? You pretend to put logical arguments in front of things, but your “leanings” show through, that’s why no one really takes the arguments of people like yourself seriously.
UN never gave it’s acceptance to the war.
So what? The UN is a flaccid, useless organization that fancies itself a world government, which its not.
Your biased opinion doesn’t make this true. And yes, it is just that, an opinion. That said, yeah, you’re right, the biggest GUN in the neighborhood should have the say, not EVERY OTHER NATION THAT BACKS SAID ORGANIZATION. It’s funny that the u.s. is in the staggering minority about just about everything these days. It’s truly sad that the country with the most brute force acquires the most assets due to said brute force and smoke and mirrors and then tries to operate under the guise of altruism, it never ceases to amaze me.
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but I guess you ran multiple fact and probability-based military tactical scenarios when you went back in your time machine, right?
I don’t have to. The people who were experts on the matter at the time did it for me. Admiral William Leahy estimated more than 250,00 killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles Willoughby, Chief of Intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, estimated American casualties from the entire operation would be one million men by the fall of 1946. This was considered, by many, to be a very conservative estimate.
Ah nothing like the rotten point of view of a christian nutjob misanthrope who watches back to back tivo’d o’reilly factors all day long.
Huh! Another person who knows me better than I know myself. Plus nothing but ad hominem attacks, which shows just how weak your arguments (if they can even be considered arguments) are.
I’ve known many like you, and your “reverse paranoia” rooted in belief in a superstitious religion as the basis for your whole hardheaded belief system, is nothing short of walking irony.
Sorry to burst your tiny little mind there, skippy, but I was a conservative long before I was a Christian. Sucks when someone doesn’t fit into your tiny little world view and breaks stereotypes, isn’t it?
Are you here to give people a hard time?
Its funny how people bash America based on a fantasy world, then whine that I am giving people a hard time when I inject a dose of reality into their house-of-cards world view.
You clearly possess nothing more than the typical misanthrope sci-fi/comic book nerd’s propensity to piss people off and the ability for regurgitation of pseudo-facts spouted by people that are paid off by corporations to tell stubborn zealots what they want to hear.
Please. You don’t know me any more than you know the world beyond your own little wants and desires (hint, that means not at all, as demonstrated by your complete lack of anything logical to say).
Seriously, I’d love to know why someone like you would read this site. Because it sounds to me like you wanna wave the am-ur-ican flag in people’s faces and bust balls.
Because I find Japanese culture fascinating. And when someone makes idiotic statements based in lies, I have a propensity to call them on it.
It also puts your picture next to “hypocrite” in the dictionary.
I’d really like to know how you come to that conclusion, as nothing you say even remotely proves your point.
So why should Japan apologize for Pearl Harbor?
I think being soundly defeated was enough in lieu of an apology. Besides, the people in charge of Japan now are not the ones who ordered the attack on Pearl Harbor. In fact, Shinzo Abe wasn’t even BORN at the time of Pearl Harbor, so I don’t believe they owe an apology for things that their predecessors did.
Why should they apologize for Yasukuni visits?
Show me where I said they should, if you don’t mind.
“American lives” puts it all up front, it’s okay to decimate the civilian population of non-whiteys in a wholly inhumane way, I mean there’s more where that came from, right?
In a time of war, the lives of your countrymen are more important than the lives of your enemies. To anyone with even the most remote capacity for abstract thought, that fact would be completely obvious. However, people like you judge everything by modern morality rather than historical perspective. Which comes from the fact that you seem to believe that 10,000 years of human history is so much as cow turds now that you’re here.
And I’m not white, skippy.
You pretend to put logical arguments in front of things, but your “leanings” show through,
You’ve yet to say anything beyond ad hominem attacks, then you accuse me of not being logical.
that’s why no one really takes the arguments of people like yourself seriously.
Pot, kettle, black. Any questions?
And yes, it is just that, an opinion.
Never said it was anything but an opinion.
not EVERY OTHER NATION THAT BACKS SAID ORGANIZATION.
If they have a problem with it, let them do something about it. Let them put the US under a trade embargo. They won’t, because they are a flaccid, useless organization that fancies itself a world government, which its not.
It’s truly sad that the country with the most brute force acquires the most assets due to said brute force and smoke and mirrors and then tries to operate under the guise of altruism, it never ceases to amaze me.
Seems to me like you are standing on your head and telling the world that it is upside-down.
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How do you think so? I don’t think much anyone ever believed they had WMDs (except citizens like you), UN inspectors didn’t find anything and nothing was ever found. Being that paranoid, I think you are worried about things like giant meteors and bird flue as well.
Hm. Let’s see… the CIA thought they had them, as was evident all throughout the Clinton administration. The UK’s intelligence thought they had them. Israel’s intelligence thought they had them. Russia, China… ALL of the G8 countries! When Hussein kicked the inspectors out in 1998, plenty of the American politicians who are now crying that there never were WMDs are on record saying that they did in fact exist. In the run-up to the Iraq war, the same thing.
I think that is what they have told you there. It is that they needed a reason, and without justification of the UN they war is not justificated. UN is at least somehow neutral organisation. Here in the world beyond US (where they don’t sensure news) it was said that Iraq has no WMDs. Believing means that someone doesn’t want to know.
ALL of the G8 countries! Hmm what about Germany? and France? Russia didn’t support the invasion either, though i don’t know what they believed or wanted their people to believe.
not EVERY OTHER NATION THAT BACKS SAID ORGANIZATION.
If they have a problem with it, let them do something about it. Let them put the US under a trade embargo. They won’t, because they are a flaccid, useless organization that fancies itself a world government, which its not. UN is supposed to be an organisation which should actually have world government, because it doesn’t run its own errands in the decissions unlike US or other single sovereign states.
In a time of war, the lives of your countrymen are more important than the lives of your enemies. To anyone with even the most remote capacity for abstract thought, that fact would be completely obvious. However, people like you judge everything by modern morality rather than historical perspective. Which comes from the fact that you seem to believe that 10,000 years of human history is so much as cow turds now that you’re here I agree with the countrymen and enemies thing somehow, but war’s purpose isn’t to kill the enemies, just to defend the Motherland, if the war is justificated in the means of modern politics. Dropping atomic bombs were just a big slaughter, Japan would have surrendered soon enough anyway. There were many who had this opinion in the war time as well, Eisenhower, MacArthur etc. Stalins countrymen were enemies of his. And they were just people, which they had plenty of. If you have any insight of Russian history, you’d know that life has been cheap in Russia, and human rights haven’t been appreciated as much as in the West. Aren’t you still using modern morality when you judge Stalin’s crimes? Shouldn’t you look it from the historical perspective then?
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Here in the world beyond US (where they don’t sensure news) it was said that Iraq has no WMDs.
I think you have a misunderstanding of the way the news works in the US.
Hmm what about Germany? and France? Russia didn’t support the invasion either, though i don’t know what they believed or wanted their people to believe.
I’ve heard reports that they were “on the take” from Hussein (part of the “oil for food” scandal that hit the UN a few years ago), but I’m not sold on that theory. As to whether or not they believed there were WMDs, I remember that they did, and they sent Blix and the other inspectors in to find them. However, when they didn’t find them, they started to doubt their intelligence.
UN is supposed to be an organisation which should actually have world government, because it doesn’t run its own errands in the decissions unlike US or other single sovereign states.
I have to disagree with you there. The UN has proven themselves to not be immune from corruption (See the Oil for Food scandal), and all members have their own interests in mind.
but war’s purpose isn’t to kill the enemies, just to defend the Motherland,
Not so much to “defend” the one’s home country, but to protect the home country.
Japan would have surrendered soon enough anyway.
Given the ferocity of Japanese nationalism of that age, that was not the prevailing wisdom at the time.
Aren’t you still using modern morality when you judge Stalin’s crimes? Shouldn’t you look it from the historical perspective then?
No, I believe I am looking at it through historical perspective. Stalin’s people weren’t the aggressors. He was. By any standards, unnecessary wholesale slaughter is never justified.
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I think you have a misunderstanding of the way the news works in the US. I don’t know what how the news works there, but surely I know how they work here.
As to whether or not they believed there were WMDs, I remember that they did, and they sent Blix and the other inspectors in to find them. However, when they didn’t find them, they started to doubt their intelligence.
Yes, when no evidences were found, they required further investigations, but US ignored it and went to Iraq.
I have to disagree with you there. The UN has proven themselves to not be immune from corruption (See the Oil for Food scandal), and all members have their own interests in mind.
Well besides UN, only reasonable option for world peace is Balance of power.
Given the ferocity of Japanese nationalism of that age, that was not the prevailing wisdom at the time.
If you say so.
Not so much to “defend” the one’s home country, but to protect the home country. “offence is the best defence” they say. Ancient Romans did that as well, well it worked up to a certain point. Still attacking a nation that might possibly be threating you will have the same effect as it had to the Rome.
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I don’t know what how the news works there, but surely I know how they work here.
In your previous post, you claimed that the news in the us was censored.
but US ignored it and went to Iraq.
Listen to Colin Powell’s speech before the UN and the recordings he played.
Still attacking a nation that might possibly be threating you will have the same effect as it had to the Rome.
The US isn’t attacking “any nation that might possible threaten us.”
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Who let this parody of a Democratic Underground poster out of his basement?
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You can actually have an Internet connection in the bunker. And I’m not democratic nor republican, just a poster from the world beyond US.
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We are all guilty. Us, Russia,japan,china. Every country. All of theme have done something wrong. The thing is thought no country will look at its self and see what they have done. That theyhave hurt others and they own people because that would mean all of us as humans would have to change. That is something we are scared of.
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Biocax and Nick have summed it up pretty well.
seeing as though none of us actually know what is being taught to russian students, lets not get too excited.
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I’m Vietnamese so here is my opinion on it. Even though the U.S. pulled out of the war before it ended, the U.S is very good to the Vietnamese people. They open up their land to millions of Vietnamese people and gave them free healthcare, money to restart our lives, and free education. We will never get that if we were still in Vietnam. Not to mention, the U.S is one of Vietnam’s foreign aide donor.
Every country committed crimes but I think the U.S is one of the few countries that contributed to the world the most.
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Exactly. This is the one reason why I’ll always support immigration of any kind in the US. We take in so many people from all over the world. People who want to work hard and make good lives for themselves and their families. That is the greatest part about America and I think it makes America a place worth fighting for. Immigrants have and hopefully always will make America one of the greatest countries in the world.
Yes we have lots of problems, but we are still young and still working to make things better.
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I don’t understand why arguments like this break out when a subject like this comes up amongst adults. Chances are, if you’ve heard of a country, they’ve perpetrated an atrocity on other countries, or on their own people. Everyone has skeletons and things to atone for, and things shouldn’t be measured in lives lost/ruined. You have to look at the fact, too, that most of the people reading this site probably have a skewed outlook towards Japan, I know I do, and I won’t hide it. I adore Japan, a lot, so naturally if it’s emotionally fueled by something intangible like “amount of wrongness” over atrocities, I’m naturally going to feel moved to be passionate about the place I like, it’s the “human” thing to do whenever there isn’t a clear, “they’re the worst.”
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I have a degree in Russian History and it is my firm belief that Stalin made Hitler look like a boy scout.
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Yes, but claiming that US hasn’t done crimes comparable to Stalin is childish.
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No its factual.
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I think that to say the US has committed atrocities in the 20th century on par and of the same systematic brutality that was displayed in Stalin’s Russia, Hitler’s Germany or Mao’s China is patently ignorant.
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